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Old 09-03-2010, 02:14 PM   #1
berdugo
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Question headers design

I'm doing a poll about headers design, I like to have a list of different headers design and hopefully discuss the advantages and disadvantages of each designs

headers configuration

1. brand
2. model
3. flange or v-band design connecting to up pipe, if flanged how many bolts
4. type of gasket of flanged
5. inner diameter of primaries
6. inner diameter going to the up pipe
7. equal/unequal lenght or other configurations.
8. pics of the said headers
9. clearance with aftermarket oil pan if info is available
10. tube material and thickness if available
11. short review about installation, performance and durability if available
12. design flaw/weakness in your opinion

thanks guys
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:17 PM   #2
berdugo
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here's mine

1. brand AMR

2. EL Race headers

3. 2 bolt with own UP gasket provided, it bolts with stock UP, in my case it bolts with the Crawford 35R kit UP

4. AMR's own gasket

5. 2in

6. 2.5in

7. equal lenght
8.



9. it clears my moroso oil pan

10. I don't know the thickness, i wish it was a bit thicker

11. installation is very difficult compared to oem exhaust manifold. performance is laggy but nice, my engine never run smoother than AMR EL Race headers installed .

12. weakness would be the POS UP gasket that came with it , the gasket blew up on me without really pushing my engine hard. that gasket is nowhere near the performance and durability of oem or grimmspeed gaskets.
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Old 09-03-2010, 11:51 PM   #3
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^ Looks like a similar design to Perrins EL headers .. A bit more Burly tho
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:03 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sense of nature View Post
^ Looks like a similar design to Perrins EL headers .. A bit more Burly tho

it looks like the Perrin indeed. do you know the size of the primaries of the Perrin headers? I read that Perrin cracks, I guess cracked headers is common.

Killerb's headers design and material looks good but I'm sure it won't fit the Crawford up pipe.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:36 AM   #5
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This is the tech works engineering header. I don't have one, just figure I'd contact them to see what it looks like since there aren't any pictures on their website. TWE told me it requires the use of a 2.5 oil pan.

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Old 09-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #6
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1. Brand: Gruppe-S
2. Model Number: GRP-V2-MANIFOLD-EQUA
3. Flange: Two Bolt Flange
4. Gasket: None/installed with oem gaskets.
5. Primaries Inside Diameter: 38.05mm Outside Diameter: 42.99mm
6. Inside Diameter At Collector(Upipe Side): 47.19mm
7. Design Type: Equal Length Header
8. Picture: Below comparing to stock.
9. Mods Required: 2006-2007 WRX Require modification to the oil cooler
10. Thickness: Around 5.09mm -Note: Done subatracting I.D. from O.D.
11. Installation: Not complicated, but oxygen sensor removal tool helps.
12. Design Flaws: Depending on what you want, THE primaries may be too large, and the el header design changes exhaust tone.
12. Weight: 16 lbs.

Last edited by subbie03; 09-04-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 09-04-2010, 12:10 PM   #7
berdugo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subbie03 View Post
1. Brand: Gruppe-S
2. Model Number: GRP-V2-MANIFOLD-EQUA
3. Flange: Two Bolt Flange
4. Gasket: None/installed with oem gaskets.
5. Primaries Inside Diameter: 38.05mm Outside Diameter: 42.99mm
6. Inside Diameter At Collector(Upipe Side): 47.19mm
7. Design Type: Equal Length Header
8. Picture: Below comparing to stock.
9. Mods Required: 2006-2007 WRX Require modification to the oil cooler
10. Thickness: Around 5.09mm -Note: Done subatracting I.D. from O.D.
11. Installation: Not complicated, but oxygen sensor removal tool helps.
12. Design Flaws: Depending on what you want, THE primaries may be too large, and the el header design changes exhaust tone.

wow the primaries are thick!

I wonder if it will fit moroso oil pan and Kaminari Race brace.

Having moroso oil pan and Kaminari Race brace limits my choices of headers. I wish Killerb made his oil pan way back March to April 2008 just before I bought moroso oil pan.
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Old 09-04-2010, 03:11 PM   #8
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The thickness is more or less around 5.09mm. Maybe if I pull the headers apart, I can measure the thickness where headers merge. I also updated the post by adding weight. The header weighed in at 16 pounds.
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:50 PM   #9
2002WRXSTi
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I have run 2 different headers since I took off my stock manifold.
First was a QuickTime Completely equal length header.
Seemed to really let the engine breath along with sounding just like a DSM
Main problem was it was weak and leaked like mad

Second one is a Elcheapo off EBAY that Junior took a look at before I put it on. Thought the tubes were a bit small in diameter but I only have a 2.0 so it wouldn't hurt it to much? It is an EL Tri Y style so it has a completely different sound than the Quicktime. However it spooled in the 750 to 1000rpm range quicker than the QTP header

Here it is mounted to show it clears a stock WRX pan no problem. It came with crappy looking gaskets but I already had some stockers so I used them. Along with a 2" EBAY up pipe that I got separate.

Sorry I don't have more info on tube sizes at this point or any dyno sheets on the new header to prove a plus gain. It sound a lot different and spools way quicker, also both of these headers where feeding a old school FP Green on a 2.0 EJ207.
QTP Header made 405 WHP 22 or 24 psi @4500rpm as I can't remember it was so long ago? No dyno on new header yet.
Forgoy to add the new header let the Green hit 32 psi when the WG stuck. QTP 24psi was max it could make.
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
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^^ how long you been running the ebay manifold? any cracks yet? ive been looking at it, the only thing i dont like is the flex joints, ive heard stories of the cheap ones blowing out.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:13 PM   #11
2002WRXSTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ds baruuuuu View Post
^^ how long you been running the ebay manifold? any cracks yet? ive been looking at it, the only thing i dont like is the flex joints, ive heard stories of the cheap ones blowing out.
Hard to say cause it is a secondary car but I put a 1000 or so miles on it before I had to stop driving it to do more modifications. Well that and try to get a JDM ECU to pass NJ inspection
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Old 09-05-2010, 09:01 AM   #12
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i have the same ebay headers installed on my car.. sounds good and runs smooth can't tell if it made any more differance because i did a few other mods to the car at the same time
the other mod was flipping the intake manifold now i need to get it tune
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Old 09-06-2010, 06:58 AM   #13
berdugo
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any info with Full-Race headers?
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Old 10-17-2010, 07:13 AM   #14
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bump
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Old 10-17-2010, 12:53 PM   #15
Boost!
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1. brand: Covert Performance
2. model:Good question. Custom?
3. flange or v-band design connecting to up pipe, if flanged how many bolts: 3 bolt flange.
4. type of gasket if flanged: OEM at the 3 bolt to up pipe, Remflex in between the 3 bolt flange and the heads.
5. inner diameter of primaries: BIG
6. inner diameter going to the up pipe: BIG
7. equal/unequal lenght or other configurations: Equal Length
8. pics of the said headers: See below.
9. clearance with aftermarket oil pan if info is available: Not sure, still use the OEM pan, but there is plenty of clearance and don't see why it wouldn't clear after-market pans.
10. tube material and thickness if available:SCH40
11. short review about installation, performance and durability if available: Installation was a pain in the ass. Performance is TOP NOTCH. Gained a lot of hp/tq in the mid range area. Durability is also extremely good!
12. design flaw/weakness in your opinion: Heavy as hell! A little complicated taking on and off. 1 piece design provides no flex point, which is not good.


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Old 10-18-2010, 12:18 PM   #16
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that looks extremely durable

thanks for sharing
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Old 10-18-2010, 02:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002WRXSTi View Post
I have run 2 different headers since I took off my stock manifold.
First was a QuickTime Completely equal length header.
Seemed to really let the engine breath along with sounding just like a DSM
Main problem was it was weak and leaked like mad

Second one is a Elcheapo off EBAY that Junior took a look at before I put it on. Thought the tubes were a bit small in diameter but I only have a 2.0 so it wouldn't hurt it to much? It is an EL Tri Y style so it has a completely different sound than the Quicktime. However it spooled in the 750 to 1000rpm range quicker than the QTP header
They are both tri-y manifolds. The differences between them are primary and secondary lengths...I'm curious what the differences in primary and secondary diameter....as well as collector (uppipe section) diameter and length.
Those values will really tell you what RPM (resonance) the manifold was tuned, based on second or third wave reflective value.
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Old 10-18-2010, 03:28 PM   #18
2002WRXSTi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
They are both tri-y manifolds. The differences between them are primary and secondary lengths...I'm curious what the differences in primary and secondary diameter....as well as collector (uppipe section) diameter and length.
Those values will really tell you what RPM (resonance) the manifold was tuned, based on second or third wave reflective value.
I wish I had taken real measurements before I put the EBAY header in but I was in to much of a hurry. The up pipe was rather large tho
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:38 AM   #19
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do you still have the quicktime? it would be nice to start getting a bit of a database together. Calculations for the secondary is complicated for reflective values but is a good design feature. They make the combo less peaky and have a broader range.
think of them as having two spring rates together and hanging a given weight from them, it makes them progressive with a broader dampening range but you won't have that same peak loading point....maybe I just butchered the explanation
Gas dynamics and springs; probably not the best comparison.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:09 AM   #20
2002WRXSTi
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Yeah I still have the QTP header in the cellar. I can try to get the measurements and lengths of the tubes later if you want?
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:12 AM   #21
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I'd love to know. Just try and measure as close to estimated centerline of the tube as you can...A single runner length from each bank can suffice. Just let me know which cylinder/runner it was and I can estimate the degrees of bend (effective tubing length).

Would be nice for the subie community to get smart and compile ACTUAL data
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
Would be nice for the subie community to get smart and compile ACTUAL data
What do you mean? Like, numbers and stuff?
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:04 PM   #23
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yeah, something like that
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I'd love to know. Just try and measure as close to estimated centerline of the tube as you can...A single runner length from each bank can suffice. Just let me know which cylinder/runner it was and I can estimate the degrees of bend (effective tubing length).

Would be nice for the subie community to get smart and compile ACTUAL data
I have a GP-Moto, looks exactly like the QTP and in MAIC area if you would like to borrow for measurement purposes. Hit me up on PM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ds baruuuuu View Post
^^ how long you been running the ebay manifold? any cracks yet? ive been looking at it, the only thing i dont like is the flex joints, ive heard stories of the cheap ones blowing out.
I had that ebay header on my first remote mount turbo setup lasted me about 2 months and it cracked in 2 diffrent places. The material is paper thin and the welds are junk.
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