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Old 10-06-2009, 04:05 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Consumer Reports Rates Michelin Models Best in Tests of Four Categories of Tires




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YONKERS, N.Y., Oct. 5, 2009; Consumer Reports rated four Michelin tires the top spots in all-season (S and T speed ratings) and performance all-season tires (H and V speed ratings), and winter categories in the magazine's November issue. Each of the four Michelin models received an "Excellent" rating.

The Michelin tires bested tests of 69 models--the largest group ever tested by Consumer Reports. That includes all-season and winter tires that fit most sedans, wagons, minivans, and some car-based SUVs. Prices for the Michelin models ranged from $106 to $126 for a size (P)215/60R16 to fit CR's two Chevrolet Malibu test cars. CR's engineers expect other sizes of the same tire models to provide similar performance.

The Michelin HydroEdge was the top scoring model among S- and T-rated all-season tires, and the Michelin Primacy MXV4 and Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S took top honors among H- and V-rated all-seasons, respectively. The Michelin X-Ice XI 2 topped CR's ratings for winter tires for passenger cars.

CR's tire engineers rated models based on a variety of categories including dry and wet braking, handling, hydroplaning resistance, snow traction, ice braking, ride comfort, noise, rolling resistance, and tread life. Despite top scores, the Michelin models aren't necessarily the best in every area. For example, the HydroEdge had only fair snow traction, so drivers who live in snowy areas might want to consider another high-scoring tire.

The Michelin models are also among the most expensive tires CR tested, but drivers don't have to pay top dollar to get good performance.

Other high scoring all-season tires with well rounded all-weather performance include the Hankook Optimo H727, Nokian WR G2, Dunlop Signature in the all season and H- and V-speed rated all-season categories, respectively. In the winter category, the General Altimax Arctic was a runner-up to the Michelin X-Ice XI 2.

Full tests and ratings of the tires appear in the November issue of Consumer Reports, which goes on sale October 6. The reports are also available to subscribers of www.ConsumerReports.org. Updated daily, ConsumerReports.org is the go-to site for the latest auto reviews, product news, blogs on breaking news and car buying information.

Consumer Reports' testers put tires through a number of objective and subjective tests in the most comprehensive tire-test program of any American magazine or Web site. Testers measure braking and lateral grip on dry and wet surfaces, handling in CR's emergency avoidance maneuver, and hydroplaning resistance, which measures how well a tire maintains contact with the road in standing water. CR rents a local skating rink to test braking on ice and has outside labs evaluate tread life and rolling resistance. To ensure consistency, testers buy each tire model in the same size and mount them on the same test cars.

This month, CR's tire ratings have changed from previous tests. Starting with these tests, CR's ratings are now designed so that readers can compare the individual performance of one type of tire with another. For example, you can compare the ratings of all-season and winter tires to see how much dry and wet grip you give up with winter tires in return for better snow and ice traction. The overall score, however, is still relative to each tire category. Because tread life can influence driving safety, a tread-life rating is included in each tire's overall score.

Finding the right tire
Investing in better tires can give you a wider margin of safety when driving. A little extra grip, for example, can mean the difference between an accident and a close call. There are a lot of tire choices, and you can't tell by looking at them which ones will perform better. When you buy replacement tires, CR recommends sticking with the same size and speed rating of your car's original tires. You can find the specifications listed on a placard usually located inside the driver's doorjamb.

When shopping, note if a tire model has asymmetrical or directional tread; those tires must be mounted in a specific way. Asymmetrical tires have different inner and outer tread, so they must be mounted with the correct side facing out.

The tread pattern on directional tires requires that they be mounted so the tire rotates in the direction shown on the sidewall. In addition, directional tires can't be switched from one side of the car to the other during tire rotations because this would cause them to turn the wrong way and might reduce traction.

Don't buy used tires, because you don't know how they've been treated. If they've been overloaded, underinflated, or overheated, there could be internal damage that won't be visible.

Choose the right tire type for your car
-- All-season Best for year-round traction, long tread wear, and a
comfortable ride. But they usually lack the precise handling and
cornering grip of performance all-season tires. Speed ratings None, S,
T. Tread-wear warranties 40,000 to 100,000 miles. Typical wheel sizes
13 to 16 inches.

-- Performance all-season Best for improved handling and cornering grip,
compared with standard all-season tires, without giving up too much
comfort and wear. But many have lower treadwear warranties. Speed
ratings H, V. Tread-wear warranties 40,000 to 70,000 miles. Typical
wheel sizes 15 to 18 inches.

-- Ultra-high-performance Best for maximum wet and dry grip and handling.
But they usually provide less tread life than standard and performance
all-season models. Summer versions aren't made for snow or ice. Speed
ratings W, Y, Z. Tread-wear warranties None for most.
Typical wheel
sizes 16 to 20 inches.

-- Winter Best for those who need maximum traction on ice and snow,
particularly where winters are severe. But fast tread wear and less
wet and dry traction limit them to winter use only. Speed ratings Q,
R, S, T, H, V. Tread-wear warranties None. Typical wheel sizes 13 to
18 inches.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...05/480289.html
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:25 AM   #2
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Hmm. What does CR know about performance tires?
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:11 PM   #3
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I made the mistake of replacing the old Nokian WR's on my wife's minivan, having listened to some of the folks here and elsewhere that some A/S's are only a little bit worse than "real" snow tires. The WR is the only passenger A/S with the Mountain/Snowflake rating.

We bought Pilot Exalto A/S and had a chance to drive them in snow yesterday. I am an idiot: should have bought another set of the Nokian WRG2's. They are OK stopping but going and turning is poor compared to the Nokian WR.

Last edited by Garandman; 12-23-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 03:38 AM   #4
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Always put Snow Tires on in the Winter, and Summer tires on in the summer. Throw the A/S out. Should got Nokian Snow Tires not WR's. Blizzak is good too.
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Old 12-22-2009, 05:23 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Always put Snow Tires on in the Winter, and Summer tires on in the summer. Throw the A/S out. Should got Nokian Snow Tires not WR's. Blizzak is good too.
Thanks, I have cars with Nokian WR, WRG2, R, RSI, and Michelin X-Ice, so I'm pretty up on that. WR's and WRG2's have the severe duty snow rating (Mountain/Snowflake) have you ever driven a car with them in snow?

Although the R's are better on snow and ice, WRG2's do just fine on my WRX. What do you have on yours?



Last edited by Garandman; 12-22-2009 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:02 AM   #6
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^^ Hi

No I have not.. Nice WRX.. I am looking for an article just done this fall, comparing All season, snows and summer. It was good write up. The all seasons did pretty good in the snow too. They mentioned the WR also. Let me try and find it for you to read.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:07 AM   #7
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Default Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer

^^ here is one of the articles, still can not find the WR article..

http://www.insideline.com/features/t...vs-summer.html
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:07 PM   #8
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Yup, Car & Driver has published two similar articles. Canadian Driver tested the WR, which has been replaced by the WRG2. Auto Zeitung tested the WRG2 on an STI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
^^ Hi

No I have not.. Nice WRX.. I am looking for an article just done this fall, comparing All season, snows and summer. It was good write up. The all seasons did pretty good in the snow too. They mentioned the WR also. Let me try and find it for you to read.
I don't suppose you get much snow in Las Vegas, anyway.

Last edited by Garandman; 12-22-2009 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 02:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
We bought Pilot Exalto A/S and had a chance to drive them in snow yesterday. I am an idiot

pilot exalto a/s is probably one of the worst tires to choose for a minivan. you went from a snow tire to a performance all season tire.... no wonder you hate it in the snow. there are tons of better options for a/s tires for a minivan.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:04 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
Yup, Car & Driver has published two similar articles. Canadian Driver tested the WR, which has been replaced by the WRG2. Auto Zeitung tested the WRG2 on an STI.

I don't suppose you get much snow in Las Vegas, anyway.
No Las Vegas,

I am at Eagle Lake,ME alot of snow , also I commute from Harveys Lake ,PA to Washington DC (VA too) 5 days a week when I am not in Maine. 1500 a week in the snow. I run the LM 25 right now.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
No Las Vegas,

I am at Eagle Lake,ME alot of snow , also I commute from Harveys Lake ,PA to Washington DC (VA too) 5 days a week when I am not in Maine. 1500 a week in the snow. I run the LM 25 right now.
Hey, if you don't fill out your profile, we get to guess.

LM25 seems like a good choice for those miles.
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Old 12-23-2009, 10:59 AM   #12
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pilot exalto a/s is probably one of the worst tires to choose for a minivan. you went from a snow tire to a performance all season tire.... no wonder you hate it in the snow. there are tons of better options for a/s tires for a minivan.
I picked it because I've had good luck with Michelins in the past, and it seemed to have the best snow/ice performance of the mainstream A/S tires offered at Costco.

It's not the end of the world: we only get 4-5' of snow a season in Boston and they are quieter and smoother-riding than the WR's. There is a gulf between snows and A/S's. From the C&D test:

Quote:
And that brings us to our next test: full stops with ABS engaged. Here again the snow tires dominate, stopping from 40 mph in 156 feet, some 28 feet shorter than the all-season tires' 184-foot performance. Meanwhile, our summer tires skate to an ultimate distance of 351 feet, the ABS actuator rattling for all it's worth the whole way.
And here's why the guys at TON refer to A/S as "no season"

Quote:
Acceleration testing provides the first surprise, as the all-season tire trails the pack with a 15.4-second 0-60 run. The snow tire's 12.7-second effort for 2nd place is significantly better, but the summer tire tops them all with an 11.9-second performance, over 20 percent quicker than the all-season tire. In fact, the all-season tire began encountering trouble near 40 mph, where it had been only 0.4 second behind the summer tire's performance when hydroplaning and wheelspin paid a visit.

Things are much the same when braking from 60 mph. The summer tire's 157-foot stop is the shortest, the snow tires come up 2nd at 181 feet and the all-season tires lag further behind in a flurry of ABS activity on the way to a distance of 215 feet, some 58 feet longer than the summer tire.

On the wet skid pad the summer tire smokes them once more, even delivering a little tire squeal as it churns out 0.81g — a figure many car-tire combinations can't match on dry pavement. The winter tire trails with a 0.71g run characterized by noticeable squirm, presumably from the side loads acting on the numerous sipes in its snow-biased tread pattern. That said, it still bests our all-season tire, which once again brings up the rear with a disappointing 0.65g showing.
Full article: http://www.insideline.com/features/t...vs-summer.html

Last edited by Garandman; 12-24-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:54 PM   #13
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CU reports are way out of touch granny nerds. Try www.tirerack.com for some real world and test comparisons.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:10 PM   #14
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CU reports are way out of touch granny nerds. Try www.tirerack.com for some real world and test comparisons.
What I especially dislike about CU is they use criterion not shown in the tables to rank products (by their own admission) and don't give the raw data.

Only problem with tirerack is that they don't test any Nokians or other tires they don't sell. That said, they sell plenty of other popular and good-performing snows.
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Old 12-23-2009, 09:12 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
Only problem with tirerack is that they don't test any Nokians or other tires they don't sell. That said, they sell plenty of other popular and good-performing snows.
sure they do. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=111
This is actually an interesting test as it has 2 of the best tires plus Michelin. Good year never had any outstanding winter tire which shows in this test.
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Old 12-24-2009, 12:57 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garandman View Post
I made the mistake of replacing the old Nokian WR's on my wife's minivan, having listened to some of the folks here and elsewhere that some A/S's are only a little bit worse than "real" snow tires. The WR is the only passenger A/S with the Mountain/Snowflake rating.

We bought Pilot Exalto A/S and had a chance to drive them in snow yesterday. I am an idiot: should have bought another set of the Nokian WRG2's. They are OK stopping but going and turning is poor compared to the Nokian WR.
I've got Nokian WRG2s on my '06s (leggy & OB) and love 'em. I recently had to put new tires on a '99 Legacy wagon, but couldn't justify the WRG2's price on that vehicle. I went with the Hankook Optimo H727 that CR rated so highly. I have no experience with the Hankook brand, and was a little hesitant, but so far I'm quite impressed. CR liked them in the snow, but I haven't driven 'em in it yet so can't comment on that. The H727s do well in rain and standing water and are EXTREMELY quiet and smooth-rolling. And a 100,000-mile rating? I don't expect to reach that number, but it's impressive they'll stand behind the tire that long.

So far the H727 is a great budget alternative to WRG2... less than half the price makes it an outstanding value, particularly for older cars where you don't want to fork out 1/3 of the car's value for tires.

I'd still keep the WRG2s on the '06 Outback, which is our vehicle that sees the most snow by far, but next time 'round I'd give serious thought to replacing the WRG2s with H727s on the '06 Legacy. We'll see how well the Hankooks age, but so far so good.
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Old 12-24-2009, 08:00 AM   #17
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Default Tires Q&A: Winter tires or not

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In our ongoing series of Q&A blog columns, we will highlight common and interesting questions posted to our Car forums, with answers from our automotive experts.

Question:I have been on the fence about getting winter tires this year. I just saw a commercial (from a tire store, of course) basically saying that even though it snows "occasionally" in Seattle, the temperatures will mostly stay below 45 º F this winter and we should have winter tires whether or not there is snow. They said that all-season tires do not perform as well below 45 º F and lose grip on the cold wet pavement-- that’s why we need winter tires. What is your take on this?

Answer: Winter tires, particularly the studless models, generally have a tread that stays pliable in extremely cold weather to grip snow and ice. It’s this compound feature that also compromises dry and wet grip compared to all-season tires in warmer temperatures (above freezing).
We did some testing a few years ago to see if the dry and wet grip improved in cold temperatures for winter tires; we found no conclusive improvement in grip.

All-season tires are designed to perform reasonably well in most conditions. In our testing, they generally have better dry and wet grip in cooler temperatures in the range of 40 º F to 50 º F, compared to warmer conditions, like 80 º F to 100 º F. Our all-weather testing at temperatures between 20 º F to 30º F show that a rare few all-season tires grip as well as some winter tires on ice and snow, but we do not have data that directly compares dry stops in extremely cold temperature (less than 25 º F) and, of course, wet surfaces turn into ice in these temperatures.

The bottom line is that a good set of all-season tires with 40 percent or more remaining tread depth would suffice in mild winter conditions (more tread depth the better). But certainly winter tires provide a measure of grip on snow and ice for drivers who want added peace of mind and need to drive in severe weather
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/car...es-or-not.html
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:50 AM   #18
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sure they do. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=111
This is actually an interesting test as it has 2 of the best tires plus Michelin. Good year never had any outstanding winter tire which shows in this test.
Yes, except that they don't show any test data, they tested the previous generation RSI instead of the R, and in a later test, the Xi2 was rated 3rd.
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Old 12-24-2009, 09:52 AM   #19
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I've got Nokian WRG2s on my '06s (leggy & OB) and love 'em. I recently had to put new tires on a '99 Legacy wagon, but couldn't justify the WRG2's price on that vehicle. I went with the Hankook Optimo H727 that CR rated so highly. I have no experience with the Hankook brand, and was a little hesitant, but so far I'm quite impressed. CR liked them in the snow, but I haven't driven 'em in it yet so can't comment on that. The H727s do well in rain and standing water and are EXTREMELY quiet and smooth-rolling. And a 100,000-mile rating? I don't expect to reach that number, but it's impressive they'll stand behind the tire that long.

So far the H727 is a great budget alternative to WRG2... less than half the price makes it an outstanding value, particularly for older cars where you don't want to fork out 1/3 of the car's value for tires.

I'd still keep the WRG2s on the '06 Outback, which is our vehicle that sees the most snow by far, but next time 'round I'd give serious thought to replacing the WRG2s with H727s on the '06 Legacy. We'll see how well the Hankooks age, but so far so good.
Cliff Notes: you bought snow tires, but haven't driven them in snow yet.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:13 PM   #20
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Cliff Notes: you bought snow tires, but haven't driven them in snow yet.
Yeah, that post a few spots up the page about occasional snow in Seattle fits my situation pretty well. The '06 OB with WRG2s will get taken into the mountains in winter. The '99 Legacy with H727s won't, but will see plenty of rain and - a few times a winter - typically slushy snowfall.

The H727s aren't rated as a snow tire, though, as far as I know. Just an all-season that is supposed to do reasonably well in snow (but not as well as the WRG2s, which I have driven in plenty of snow).
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Old 12-31-2009, 09:09 PM   #21
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pilot exalto a/s is probably one of the worst tires to choose for a minivan. you went from a snow tire to a performance all season tire.... no wonder you hate it in the snow. there are tons of better options for a/s tires for a minivan.
Just looked at the tirerack reviews and the this tire is the #1 rated tire in the category for snow, deep snow, and ice traction.

I really don't want to have two sets of wheels and tires for this vehicle, so I may just dump the Michelins for WRG2's.
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Old 09-05-2010, 12:09 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
I've got Nokian WRG2s on my '06s (leggy & OB) and love 'em. I recently had to put new tires on a '99 Legacy wagon, but couldn't justify the WRG2's price on that vehicle. I went with the Hankook Optimo H727 that CR rated so highly. I have no experience with the Hankook brand, and was a little hesitant, but so far I'm quite impressed. CR liked them in the snow, but I haven't driven 'em in it yet so can't comment on that. The H727s do well in rain and standing water and are EXTREMELY quiet and smooth-rolling. And a 100,000-mile rating? I don't expect to reach that number, but it's impressive they'll stand behind the tire that long.

So far the H727 is a great budget alternative to WRG2... less than half the price makes it an outstanding value, particularly for older cars where you don't want to fork out 1/3 of the car's value for tires.

I'd still keep the WRG2s on the '06 Outback, which is our vehicle that sees the most snow by far, but next time 'round I'd give serious thought to replacing the WRG2s with H727s on the '06 Legacy. We'll see how well the Hankooks age, but so far so good.
How did the Hankook tires do in snow?
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:05 AM   #23
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Never found out about the Hankooks in snow... that car was sold before it saw any (there was no snow here in the Puget Sound lowlands all winter). We also sold the Outback with the Nokian WRG2s, and sadly replaced it with a Honda Pilot, due to a growing family. The Pilot had some nearly new Goodyear Wranglers I didn't like much... but a pair of them developed some cupping very quickly, so I replaced all four with more WRG2s. The Pilot's ride firmed up immensely with the Nokians and handling feels much improved. I also like the "green" aspects of the Nokian product. I'd still do the same as before, putting the Nokians on newer vehicles and Hankooks on vehicles that make Nokian price harder to justify, but that's just me.
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Old 09-06-2010, 09:07 AM   #24
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wrong forum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
Always put Snow Tires on in the Winter, and Summer tires on in the summer. Throw the A/S out.
Quote:
And here's why the guys at TON refer to A/S as "no season"
meh ... I run snow tires in the winter and uhp all-seasons the other 3 seasons. There are many spring and fall days here (central MA) where there is potential to get cold rain, flurries, etc that would not be safe to use summer tires in, but not bad enough to justify putting on the snow tires. Using all-season most of the year means that I can run the snows only for the few months when they are really needed. yes, i give up some summer performance but its not noticeable under normal street conditions.
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:09 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
wrong forum!





meh ... I run snow tires in the winter and uhp all-seasons the other 3 seasons. There are many spring and fall days here (central MA) where there is potential to get cold rain, flurries, etc that would not be safe to use summer tires in, but not bad enough to justify putting on the snow tires. Using all-season most of the year means that I can run the snows only for the few months when they are really needed. yes, i give up some summer performance but its not noticeable under normal street conditions.

What is with you telling me about Wrong Forum?? Then you go on and do the same..
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