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Old 02-10-2011, 05:40 PM   #51
HipToBeSquare
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Go sit in your back seat for a 3 hour trip w/ 3 people. Then go sit in the back of an 08 WRX or 10 Legacy. It is a lot better.
1:The 08 WRX isn't much different than a 05-09 Legacy, and I have no problem if that is similar to the '12 Impreza update.

2:A 10+ Legacy is too big, and I don't need that size, or like that style.

3:I don't ride in the back seat of my own car. EVER. I DRIVE, and if I am too tired to drive, we stop, or I ride in the passenger's seat.

If I did, I would want a bigger vehicle entirely with 3+ adult passengers on board for more than a short trip.

That is what Outback has become, and Tribeca has been for since it was first built. If that was the type of driving I did, I would have picked that vehicle.

Why do you think I am so much in favor of a coupe? I DON'T NEED ROOM for more than two adult passengers in the car.

How many times do I have to re-iterate it, that not every car in the lineup needs to do the same things, like haul 4 or more 6'+ adults and their luggage from here to timbuktu...

For those who need that, fine for them/you. That is what bigger vehicles are made for, and I don't begrudge people big vehicles like some blanket SUV/van haters do.

But that doesn't mean that a smaller class car should have to meet your 4 6'+ passenger criteria, if it is supposed to be for people who don't need that extra size, weight, and aerodynamic drag.

Different cars for different purposes means exactly that... not just different shapes and sizes that should all meet one purpose that you happen to need.

Tribeca and Impreza are not supposed to be the same vehicle, otherwise they would already be the same vehicle.

I still wish Subaru would offer a coupe version, because I don't even need the rear side doors. I'd rather have a sleek liftback hatch, instead, like my 93 Probe GT had, and my 88 Mustang before that. I liked that body format, and I don't need more than that. But I want at least one of the drivetrains that my current Subarus have, either turbo flat 4 or NA flat 6, manual gearbox, and ALL WHEEL BLOODY DRIVE!!! I lived with FWD and RWD, respectively, and they didn't kill me, but I like my Subarus' stability and traction so much better.

If I can't have that... I will consider a slick 4-door, just as I did with my 2005 Legacy (while Subaru was in the middle of their coupe famine, that they are still in...) if that is the only thing Subaru will offer. But don't go cramping that style with unreasonable expectations that should instead rightfully apply to OTHER subaru products.

I was accused even as recently as earlier today, about making this argument "about me"... when you are making the argument just as much "about you", rather than making the argument about choosing product well, and having the diversity of product to choose from.
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Old 02-10-2011, 11:55 PM   #52
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As long as the new Impreza seats 5, I'm in!
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:48 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
How many times do I have to re-iterate it, that not every car in the lineup needs to do the same things, like haul 4 or more 6'+ adults and their luggage from here to timbuktu...
Every sedan needs to fit at least 4 real people (6ft) and their stuff. If it doesn't, then make it a 2 door, 2 seater.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:09 AM   #54
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just make the damn impreza fit a rear facing car seat for a baby without needing to slide the front seats all the way up!
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:56 AM   #55
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just make the damn impreza fit a rear facing car seat for a baby without needing to slide the front seats all the way up!
Amen.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:33 AM   #56
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I like this concept, I think it looks pretty cool. Of course, the real car will differ. I'd lean toward a bit more of a squared-off front, maybe in homage to the classic Impreza, but without mimicking it too much. Of course, maintain a hood scoop. But I've seen so many people ask for the return of a two-door Impreza, so I think if they offer a two- and four-door, they'd be on to something for the fans. Three offerings, would be even better: coupe, sedan, and hatch.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:46 AM   #57
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Every sedan needs to fit at least 4 real people (6ft) and their stuff. If it doesn't, then make it a 2 door, 2 seater.


And every decent one worth mentioning does. The question is relative comfort and how much "stuff" is required. Four 6' adults with one duffel each will fit in a Honda Fit, but it might not be much fun for a 12hr road trip. I had 4 adults, their camping gear and bikes on top of my '96 OBS once, luckily we were only on the road for 3hours.

Hip's point is there's a big difference between the occasional camping trip and a car that sees regular long-haul road trip duty.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:36 AM   #58
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Every sedan needs to fit at least 4 real people (6ft) and their stuff. If it doesn't, then make it a 2 door, 2 seater.
Ok.

Tell that to the people who coined the oxy-moronic term "4-door-coupe"

Get them to rescind that stupid concept

And bring back 2-door coupes even more.

And I wholly disagree with you that every car with 2-doors needs to have only two seats.

I have owned 3 coupes and 1 convertible... only the convertible has been a 2-seater. A 2+2 is more practical, even just to put parcels in the back seats, rather than people... but people can fit back there in a pinch, especially if they aren't full grown adults.

How many nuclear families have 4 full-sized adults? A percentage that have adolescent children still in the house. Children can fit in 2-door 2+2 coupes, and sleek sedans with lower rear rooflines, and less legroom than a Bentley, and once the kids are driving themselves, and especially off on their own, the parents are back down to 2 adults.

Most families with older children drive larger vehicles... as that pertains to Subarus, that means Legacy, Outback, or Tribeca... or some other brand that offers something even bigger like a minivan, full size van, or full size SUV.

The Impreza is not the car that a family with grown children should be choosing, at least not for a primary car. Some cars are secondary cars, commuters, or cars for people with smaller sized family members, or fewer members.

I can count on less than one hand how many times I have had adult passengers in my Legacy, besides my wife and myself, and I have owned that car since 2007. And all three times, my wife and my mother sat in the rear seats, and fit just fine... while my father and I sat in the front seats and were also comfortable. I am 6'2", and my father is 6'4". The fourth time, my brother and his wife came along instead, and were accommodated just as well, and my brother is 6'5".

Why should I have to buy a car the size of the 2010 Legacy/Outback, or a Tribeca, just because OTHER PEOPLE claim to need more space?

The Impreza is not supposed to be that big. If you NEED something that big, then it is your RESPONSIBILITY to buy a product that fits your needs.

If you want the Impreza 4-door to be that big... then HOW DARE ANYONE suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to buy a 2-door 2+2 coupe, if you guys are going to demand that the 4-door is going to be bigger than I, or ANYONE ELSE without 4 adult-size passengers need it to be.

How dare anyone suggest that I am making this all about me... when you are making it all about you. How dare anyone suggest that Subaru shouldn't explore product diversity for people who don't need behemoth cars, because it might not appeal to absolutely everyone who might need large cars... THAT SUBARU ALREADY BUILDS.

I am not speaking just for me. I am speaking for ANYONE who wants a car that isn't too big for their purposes. I am speaking for anyone who wants a good, yet space-efficient car that doesn't weigh more, take up more space, have larger frontal area, and generally be too much car than they need.

I thought SUVs were being absolutely LAMBASTED because people drive them around with no passengers, and how dare they be so wasteful and inefficient.

Yet here I am trying to advocate for NOT being wasteful, by buying only as big of a car as I need. And that is bigger than the Miata I already have, and smaller than the 2010 Legacy that I don't like or need.

Impreza is supposed to be that car. NOT just a legacy by another name. If you have irrational mandates that every 4-door should fit 4 adults, and any 2-door should be tiny... I disagree, and I live in the segment between those two points.

{/rant}
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:15 PM   #59
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Why would you own a Sedan that your friends can't fit in w/o their knees digging into the seat-back and their shoulders being ontop of each other? What if you were a passenger in a friends car on a ski trip? You would be annoyed the whole ride. Or they could have a car that can fit 3 adult males comfortably.

The current Impreza is a great size (ok, excessive head room).

Just about everday I used to drive my co-workers to lunch. 3 guys could comfortably fit back there.

My other co-worker had a 3 series. Good luck. 2 in the back, shoulder to shoulder. It is horrible shoving a third person inside.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:34 PM   #60
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With 35MPG, this would be a great commuter car for me. However, my worry is they'll do something stupid like they did with the Baja. When Baja came out years ago, I almost started negotiating with the dealer before I found out that instead of fitting 3 seats across in the back seat like the Outback it was based on at the time did, it had a stupid storage compartment built into the middle seating position thus making it impossible and illegal (no seat belt even) to seat another passenger there. Instead, I bought another Outback at the time and I suspect this happened with a LOT of people thus helping lead to Baja's demise. SOA, even if the middle seating position is a bit narrow (ala Outback), please be sure to put a seat belt there so I can take my wife AND 3 kids with me in a pinch or this vehicle is off my list. I know the Mazda 3 I recently rented had this and it worked great for us other than the fact it was a crappy Mazda...
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:08 PM   #61
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Ok.

Tell that to the people who coined the oxy-moronic term "4-door-coupe"

Get them to rescind that stupid concept

And bring back 2-door coupes even more.

And I wholly disagree with you that every car with 2-doors needs to have only two seats.

I have owned 3 coupes and 1 convertible... only the convertible has been a 2-seater. A 2+2 is more practical, even just to put parcels in the back seats, rather than people... but people can fit back there in a pinch, especially if they aren't full grown adults.

How many nuclear families have 4 full-sized adults? A percentage that have adolescent children still in the house. Children can fit in 2-door 2+2 coupes, and sleek sedans with lower rear rooflines, and less legroom than a Bentley, and once the kids are driving themselves, and especially off on their own, the parents are back down to 2 adults.

Most families with older children drive larger vehicles... as that pertains to Subarus, that means Legacy, Outback, or Tribeca... or some other brand that offers something even bigger like a minivan, full size van, or full size SUV.

The Impreza is not the car that a family with grown children should be choosing, at least not for a primary car. Some cars are secondary cars, commuters, or cars for people with smaller sized family members, or fewer members.

I can count on less than one hand how many times I have had adult passengers in my Legacy, besides my wife and myself, and I have owned that car since 2007. And all three times, my wife and my mother sat in the rear seats, and fit just fine... while my father and I sat in the front seats and were also comfortable. I am 6'2", and my father is 6'4". The fourth time, my brother and his wife came along instead, and were accommodated just as well, and my brother is 6'5".

Why should I have to buy a car the size of the 2010 Legacy/Outback, or a Tribeca, just because OTHER PEOPLE claim to need more space?

The Impreza is not supposed to be that big. If you NEED something that big, then it is your RESPONSIBILITY to buy a product that fits your needs.

If you want the Impreza 4-door to be that big... then HOW DARE ANYONE suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to buy a 2-door 2+2 coupe, if you guys are going to demand that the 4-door is going to be bigger than I, or ANYONE ELSE without 4 adult-size passengers need it to be.

How dare anyone suggest that I am making this all about me... when you are making it all about you. How dare anyone suggest that Subaru shouldn't explore product diversity for people who don't need behemoth cars, because it might not appeal to absolutely everyone who might need large cars... THAT SUBARU ALREADY BUILDS.

I am not speaking just for me. I am speaking for ANYONE who wants a car that isn't too big for their purposes. I am speaking for anyone who wants a good, yet space-efficient car that doesn't weigh more, take up more space, have larger frontal area, and generally be too much car than they need.

I thought SUVs were being absolutely LAMBASTED because people drive them around with no passengers, and how dare they be so wasteful and inefficient.

Yet here I am trying to advocate for NOT being wasteful, by buying only as big of a car as I need. And that is bigger than the Miata I already have, and smaller than the 2010 Legacy that I don't like or need.

Impreza is supposed to be that car. NOT just a legacy by another name. If you have irrational mandates that every 4-door should fit 4 adults, and any 2-door should be tiny... I disagree, and I live in the segment between those two points.

{/rant}
Why do you dislike rear doors so much!
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:24 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post

The Impreza is not supposed to be that big. If you NEED something that big, then it is your RESPONSIBILITY to buy a product that fits your needs.

If you want the Impreza 4-door to be that big... then HOW DARE ANYONE suggest that I shouldn't be allowed to buy a 2-door 2+2 coupe, if you guys are going to demand that the 4-door is going to be bigger than I, or ANYONE ELSE without 4 adult-size passengers need it to be.

How dare anyone suggest that I am making this all about me... when you are making it all about you. How dare anyone suggest that Subaru shouldn't explore product diversity for people who don't need behemoth cars, because it might not appeal to absolutely everyone who might need large cars... THAT SUBARU ALREADY BUILDS.

I am not speaking just for me. I am speaking for ANYONE who wants a car that isn't too big for their purposes. I am speaking for anyone who wants a good, yet space-efficient car that doesn't weigh more, take up more space, have larger frontal area, and generally be too much car than they need.

I thought SUVs were being absolutely LAMBASTED because people drive them around with no passengers, and how dare they be so wasteful and inefficient.

Yet here I am trying to advocate for NOT being wasteful, by buying only as big of a car as I need. And that is bigger than the Miata I already have, and smaller than the 2010 Legacy that I don't like or need.

Impreza is supposed to be that car. NOT just a legacy by another name. If you have irrational mandates that every 4-door should fit 4 adults, and any 2-door should be tiny... I disagree, and I live in the segment between those two points.

{/rant}
Hip, I think your assumption about the size of the Impreza are not accurate. It's not a mid-sized car like Legacy, Camry, Mazda6 or Accord, it's a compact car and roughly the same size/class as the the Corolla, Mazda3, Focus, Sentra and Civic but weighing 100-300 pounds more than those cars due to AWD and structural ruggedness. So why should Impreza be stuck with the interior room or utility of a Sub-Compact/Supermini like a Fiesta, Mazda2, Yaris or Fit? It doesn't compete with those smaller cars. It has to offer the same or better interior room, comfort and utility as the Compact cars it does compete against. Yes it should hold four adults in comfort. Offer a 2-door coupe? Fine, Ok, if sales justify a different body shell but it still has to be a compact car if it's an Impreza.

If anything it points out that Subaru may need a smaller vehicle for this market but that vehicle is not the Impreza.

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Old 02-11-2011, 01:52 PM   #63
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Subaru has said that the costs assosciated with a low-priced mini car (Fit, Yaris, Fiesta) doesn't make financial sense. They don't intend to sell one.

Subaru knows how to sell only what is necessary and that showed through in the economic down turn when they made a profit as everyone else walloed in excess inventory. And, with gas prices under $4, SUV sales are up and mini-cars down, so Subaru was right.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:43 PM   #64
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Subaru has said that the costs assosciated with a low-priced mini car (Fit, Yaris, Fiesta) doesn't make financial sense. They don't intend to sell one.

Subaru knows how to sell only what is necessary and that showed through in the economic down turn when they made a profit as everyone else walloed in excess inventory. And, with gas prices under $4, SUV sales are up and mini-cars down, so Subaru was right.
You're right of course as a Supermini sized Subaru couldn't compete price-wise if equipped with AWD and a more expensive to build boxer engine. It would likely have to be a re-badged Toyota. Can't you just hear the howls of "That'll Never Happen"? But it could happen if SOA decides to tear down the Temple of AWD.

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:28 PM   #65
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Why would you own a Sedan that your friends can't fit in w/o their knees digging into the seat-back and their shoulders being ontop of each other? What if you were a passenger in a friends car on a ski trip? You would be annoyed the whole ride. Or they could have a car that can fit 3 adult males comfortably.
This is EASY. I would own a COUPE IF THEY WOULD BUILD ONE!!!!

I already DO own a Subaru coupe, and I want another one.

I bought a sedan, because the Legacy was the only turbo manual AWD car with leather interior and good looks that Subaru sold in 2005. The impreza hasn't looked good since the GC, until this new Impreza Design Concept... and hasn't usually offered as nice of interior as the Legacy did between 2005 and 2009.

If all Subaru will sell is sedans... I can't BUY a coupe from them with AWD.

Quote:
The current Impreza is a great size (ok, excessive head room).

Just about everday I used to drive my co-workers to lunch. 3 guys could comfortably fit back there.
Ok... if that is something important to you, you should buy a car that is mid-size or greater.

I eat a small sandwich box lunch at my desk while I work. I work alone. I don't burn gas for lunch or spend much money eating out. I certainly don't take anyone with me. Half the time, I car-pool with my wife, and she takes the car during the day, since I rarely revisit my car for any reason during the day, unless I have an outside-of-work appointment that can't be scheduled outside of work hours.

Thankfully, my job is such that I can simultaneously stay online, and work on other projects at the same time, it is one of the few saving graces, other than not wanting to go anywhere near an unemployment line right now.

Quote:
My other co-worker had a 3 series. Good luck. 2 in the back, shoulder to shoulder. It is horrible shoving a third person inside.
That is fine. Your expectations are reasonable... for an appropriate car. If your appropriate car is the Legacy... then you should want Subaru to build you a nice Legacy. I wish they had built a nicer legacy for 2010. Maybe a Forester, Outback, or Tribeca would also work.

The Impreza Design Concept only has 2 rear seats, and isn't setup for 3 across, either. And yes, the current Impreza design is quasimodo, the hunchback of the auto industry. Far too tall and ugly.

As I mentioned, I am not a small person. None of my immediate relatives that are male are small people. I don't want a micro-car. My wife drives the Miata except during the winter, and it is too small to be a primary car. I don't want another car that small, especially for MY primary driver.

My SVX is just about right. My Probe GT many years ago, was the right size and shape. It just sucked for being FWD, other than that, I really enjoyed that car. My subarus are better, in terms of drivetrain, by far. I wish my 92 SVX was in the same shape as my 93 Probe GT was when I bought it. The Probe GT was in nearly new shape.

I rescued my SVX 18 months ago from an appointment with california crusher because of a cold-start emissions test failure, even though it ran fine. In CA, if it fails one category, it fails them all, and CA wants to relieve you of your failing cars that can't be road registered, and send them to a crusher.

The car has been hit and rebuilt long before I owned it, and the unibody is still not straight, and the re-paint was crap and has pretty much completely flaked the clearcoat off the repainted roof, and some other bits. But the car mechanically is quite viable, and drives straight, and I commute with it. I only spent 1000$ on it, and another 250 for gas and payment to the seller's friend to drive it to the midwest for me. It is not a prime example of an SVX, but I still thoroughly enjoy that car, and probably the lowest cost per mile car I have yet owned, factoring in the price I paid for the car.

If I had money sitting around for another fun car on the side, I would buy another, much nicer SVX, and enjoy it even more, and probably spend the money to swap a manual gearbox into it. But those cars are almost 15 years out of production, and mine is almost 20 years old. Not the best recipe for a daily driver, long term. I wouldn't subject a pristine SVX to all-season daily driver mileage that if I wanted to keep it pristine as a hobby car. I don't mind using my existing SVX up, since it will never be pristine again. But I do enjoy the car, and respect it, and it's design.

If Subaru won't offer a replacement for my SVX, as a new car offering, the only newer car anywhere near that from Subaru that I can buy is a sedan, and I certainly do not need anything bigger than my 2005 Legacy, which the 2010+ Legacy is.

I don't begrudge people their 4 side doors. I just don't need them. Not everybody does. Some people want a weekend fun AWD performance car since some weekends happen during the winter season... some people don't have large families... any number of reasons for people to prefer a more stylish and efficient coupe, but also live in climate regions that still make AWD a benefit.

I have to accept a 4-door as the only thing subaru still offers, if I want to stay in a car with a Subaru boxer engine, and Subaru high-grade AWD, and a manual gearbox. Nobody else offers that combination, short of a Porsche carrera 4, which is a huge monetary step up, and even to get affordable would have to be approaching 15 years old used, like a 1st generation 996 C4, and Porsche $$$$ parts and labor for support for said 15 year old, out of warranty car.

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Old 02-11-2011, 03:40 PM   #66
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Hmmm... So basically the new 2011 sedan body is possibly only going to be available just this year? That would be HAWT! I would think it nice for Subaru to keep the 2011 body for WRX/STI for just one more year and THEN in Fall of 2012 release the Concept's style to the turbo models.

I think everything I just said was repeated from what I've read everywhere else, but oh well. I compiled all the speculation!
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:23 PM   #67
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The current Impreza is a great size (ok, excessive head room).
I NEED excessive headroom for my excessively large head.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:29 PM   #68
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I NEED excessive headroom for my excessively large head.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:24 AM   #69
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You're right of course as a Supermini sized Subaru couldn't compete price-wise if equipped with AWD and a more expensive to build boxer engine. It would likely have to be a re-badged Toyota. Can't you just hear the howls of "That'll Never Happen"? But it could happen if SOA decides to tear down the Temple of AWD.

Guy
That is exactly what Subaru is doing in Europe and Japan, a re-badged Toyota Verso is available as Subaru Trezia.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:46 AM   #70
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These "next generation concept" threads always make me feel a little bit better about continuing my engine rebuild/investing in stock body parts to make my '07 look brand new again.
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Old 02-12-2011, 04:36 AM   #71
HB_Dad
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So when is this show anyway? I did a quick search and it appears the show has already passed based on the dates... well before this thread was even started...



Am I missing something here?
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:25 AM   #72
rsholland
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Originally Posted by HB_Dad View Post
So when is this show anyway? I did a quick search and it appears the show has already passed based on the dates... well before this thread was even started...



Am I missing something here?
Yes you are:

NYIAS = New York International Auto Show, which is in April

NAIAS = North American International Auto Show, aka Detroit Auto Show in January.

Bob
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:55 PM   #73
Snow Drift
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HB_Dad View Post
So when is this show anyway? I did a quick search and it appears the show has already passed based on the dates... well before this thread was even started...

Am I missing something here?
Wow, NY not Michigan. It's Easter time every year. it is SOA's main show and where the cars are always unveiled.
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Old 02-13-2011, 03:28 AM   #74
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Is it worth waiting for the new WRX? I'm about to order a 2011 one...
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Originally Posted by Xenri View Post
Man...I am right on the cusp of ordering a 2011 WRX hatch....I hope the auto show in April shows the wagon model, and gives a date for the WRX version...It might be worth the wait.
Learn from us 2008 Wrx owners....
Just saying.
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Old 02-13-2011, 06:14 AM   #75
cococly
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Hmmm... So basically the new 2011 sedan body is possibly only going to be available just this year? That would be HAWT! I would think it nice for Subaru to keep the 2011 body for WRX/STI for just one more year and THEN in Fall of 2012 release the Concept's style to the turbo models.

I think everything I just said was repeated from what I've read everywhere else, but oh well. I compiled all the speculation!
I used to own a 2008 WRX, now I have a 2011 WRX.

I think, most of us argeed on that Subaru would keep producing the WRX/STI in its current form for the 2012 model year, even when the BASE imprezas get a redesign for 2012 model year.

Basically, Subaru is delaying the high-performance variants one year after the base models.
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