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Old 06-19-2009, 12:11 PM   #101
design1stcode2nd
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What actual WHP can you expect to loose between an aftermarket EL and UEL header? People have mentioned 20-30hp gained from stock but would this be the same on aftermarket UEL headers as well?
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Old 06-19-2009, 01:48 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post
What actual WHP can you expect to loose between an aftermarket EL and UEL header? People have mentioned 20-30hp gained from stock but would this be the same on aftermarket UEL headers as well?
That would mean by your logic there are no gains from stock to aftermarket UEL headers and that is not the case. No single hp number is going to quantify the increase in performance between headers since all setups are different. A short answer is EL>UEL>stock.
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #103
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That would mean by your logic there are no gains from stock to aftermarket UEL headers and that is not the case. No single hp number is going to quantify the increase in performance between headers since all setups are different. A short answer is EL>UEL>stock.
Thought I explained it but I'll try to clarify. I assumed there would be a HP increase going from stock headers to aftermarket UEL headers. Yes I know it will vary depending on who makes the part. What I'm trying to quantifiy is are you sacrificing the boxer rumble (if you like it and I do) for a "guesstimate" of 5 hp when compared to the theoretical same EL header or is it a good bit more?

So Acme UEL header gets you 12.5hp over stock and Acme EL header gets you 25hp over stock. So you have to decide if the 12.5hp difference in this make-believe scenario is worth the change in engine/exhaust sound.

Guessing the answer is no one is really going to know so perhaps a different question. Does anyone know what increase your UEL headers gave you and what brand did you use?
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Old 06-22-2009, 08:59 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post
Thought I explained it but I'll try to clarify. I assumed there would be a HP increase going from stock headers to aftermarket UEL headers. Yes I know it will vary depending on who makes the part. What I'm trying to quantifiy is are you sacrificing the boxer rumble (if you like it and I do) for a "guesstimate" of 5 hp when compared to the theoretical same EL header or is it a good bit more?

So Acme UEL header gets you 12.5hp over stock and Acme EL header gets you 25hp over stock. So you have to decide if the 12.5hp difference in this make-believe scenario is worth the change in engine/exhaust sound.

Guessing the answer is no one is really going to know so perhaps a different question. Does anyone know what increase your UEL headers gave you and what brand did you use?
I think it would depend on your mods/power level. You might not see any increase or even a slight decrease at a certain power level yet at higher power levels you may see significant gains. I think with the given info it would be hard for anyone to answer that with any accuracy.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:06 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by design1stcode2nd View Post
Thought I explained it but I'll try to clarify. I assumed there would be a HP increase going from stock headers to aftermarket UEL headers. Yes I know it will vary depending on who makes the part. Does anyone know what increase your UEL headers gave you and what brand did you use?
All aftermarket UEL headers are made by the same company. Not one will give you more hp than another. I would not go to and EL headeR to gain 2hp and lose the sound, I don't want another civic.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:20 PM   #106
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All aftermarket UEL headers are made by the same company. Not one will give you more hp than another. I would not go to and EL headeR to gain 2hp and lose the sound, I don't want another civic.
I wouldn't say all aftermarket UEL headers are manufactured by the same company - a lot of them may share, but they're not all the same.

And your insight about EL headers? Really? 2hp and sounding like a Civic? You need to stop reading about headers and actually find an EL header Subaru.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:23 PM   #107
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All aftermarket UEL headers are made by the same company. Not one will give you more hp than another. I would not go to and EL headeR to gain 2hp and lose the sound, I don't want another civic.
Obviously you didn't see the PROVEN dyno chart that I posted. The ONLY difference was headers. The lowest chart is stock headers tuned. Highest is EL headers tuned.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:26 PM   #108
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I wouldn't say all aftermarket UEL headers are manufactured by the same company - a lot of them may share, but they're not all the same.

And your insight about EL headers? Really? 2hp and sounding like a Civic? You need to stop reading about headers and actually find an EL header Subaru.
I've heard one in person and it did not impress me at all. Same thing with the new Ken Block video...that car SOUNDS like ass.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:30 PM   #109
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I've heard one in person and it did not impress me at all. Same thing with the new Ken Block video...that car SOUNDS like ass.
To each his own man. If you don't like it that is your opinion. But while you aren't liking the 'sound' others are making a ton more power
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:34 PM   #110
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Maybe I'm just strange, but I still don't get how this is even a choice people have to think about.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:47 PM   #111
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That is new to me... Always thought it was the othre way around.
Same here. I wrapped a ceramic coated bosal header and it cracked after about 10mos. Took it off and unwrapped the thermo tech and there were metal coating just flaking all over. Think wrapping helps carbonize the metal.
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:23 PM   #112
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I really looked into this EL header thing and then was convinced I had to PnP my stockers then I was looking at PERRIN then TOMEI. Upshot is at Stage 2 this is not going to mean much and will cost $$ and will most likely degrade reliability and then there is the sound this is a no brainer.
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Old 07-01-2009, 01:35 AM   #113
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I really looked into this EL header thing and then was convinced I had to PnP my stockers then I was looking at PERRIN then TOMEI. Upshot is at Stage 2 this is not going to mean much and will cost $$ and will most likely degrade reliability and then there is the sound this is a no brainer.
That is funny. but not true at all!
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Old 07-01-2009, 02:36 AM   #114
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The EL header is intended for the STi, period. Subaru of America believes sound outweighs spool and overall power which is mind blowing. I have never met one person who thinks my car sounds like Honda but even if it did I prefer the performance over sound. If I wanted sound I would have bought a Mustang. Not to mention I like separating myself from a 95 Legacy Wagon with an exhaust, no offense to those with those cars.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:34 AM   #115
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EL is JDM YO!

Running EL with my rotated 30R setup. Love the performance. I don't miss the sound too much. I'm faster than all the subaru I hang out with that have UEL
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Old 07-01-2009, 03:36 PM   #116
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Yes definately. But you also have to use a good setup. I liked the maddad's because the 1.6" piping. That's bigger than stock. The only downside is that you have to heat them up to get full power but header wrapping them solves that issue. Mine are ceramic coated but when I put the built 2.5L I will be header wrapping them.
Among many other things, I have Tomei Headers. They come with a wrap, but I ceramic coated them as well- enthalpy is a turbine's best friend afterall

Anyway, I also noticed there is a big difference between a hot header and a cold one. It spools harder and quicker when it's hot.

BTW, I went with UEL- it's my one "rice" mod...I wanted to keep the sound!
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Old 07-21-2010, 05:34 PM   #117
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Wont Equal length lower your EGT??
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by ivansit0 View Post
Wont Equal length lower your EGT??


Yes. ^

Boxer rumble is more an effect of UEL than firing order. There is a reason that Subarus have tons of issues with specifically Cylinder 4 Detonation.... Find the cylinder lay-out, find cylinder #4, then look at an UEL header. It's a joke, and takes the mystery out of things.


If you have $ to spend, get EL, tune it, and deal w/ the loss of "rumble". With 3" TBE, it'll sound like a Porsche. AKA, better than a Subaru. I know this is an old post, but as an Engineer, I can't ignore misinformation being spewed.



Edit: http://rusubaru.com/equal-length-vs-...ength-headers/
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:50 PM   #119
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Yea cuz I was just about to say it's since last year....I have an agency power elh with a Greddy turboback and it sounds awesome...the lope is still there but not as much as unequal length ofcourse.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:29 PM   #120
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Yea cuz I was just about to say it's since last year....I have an agency power elh with a Greddy turboback and it sounds awesome...the lope is still there but not as much as unequal length ofcourse.
I see you have a 06 WRX... Did you have to mod the oil cooler?
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Old 02-12-2011, 12:04 AM   #121
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Yea, someone had a thread with the part numbers, pretty straight forward. The only problem I had was a little piece of the radiator support at the bottom had to be trimmed for it to fit properly.
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Old 02-12-2011, 03:46 PM   #122
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this is one reason I went EL , I run the perrin catback and it sounds nice, Not like a honda others are saying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaeat-r View Post
Yes. ^

Boxer rumble is more an effect of UEL than firing order. There is a reason that Subarus have tons of issues with specifically Cylinder 4 Detonation.... Find the cylinder lay-out, find cylinder #4, then look at an UEL header. It's a joke, and takes the mystery out of things.


If you have $ to spend, get EL, tune it, and deal w/ the loss of "rumble". With 3" TBE, it'll sound like a Porsche. AKA, better than a Subaru. I know this is an old post, but as an Engineer, I can't ignore misinformation being spewed.



Edit: http://rusubaru.com/equal-length-vs-...ength-headers/
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:59 PM   #123
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A turbo Subaru will never sound like a Honda. When I get some more $$ saved up for a proper tune, I'll go EL header too.
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Old 02-12-2011, 09:01 PM   #124
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A turbo Subaru will never sound like a Honda. When I get some more $$ saved up for a proper tune, I'll go EL header too.
QFT.

I had what I consider the best EL header on my 05 LGT, the APS Equal Length Split Pulse Header. It sounded different, of course, but still like a Subaru. With a total cost of nearly $1400 including their proprietary metal "wrap" the cost per hp scared most people off. But they were in context with that build and enabled me to make power a stock or AM UEL couldn't touch. I don't think APS is supplying the US market at present.

FWIW my earlier NA Subaru Legacys came stock with EL headers, and sounded unmistakably like what they were, a Subaru. People.
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Old 02-13-2011, 08:27 AM   #125
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I went with the FullRace set-up and I am very happy with performance and SOUND...
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