Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday October 1, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2011, 09:48 AM   #26
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoliver View Post
I hope they told you to keep an eye on your stock wrx intercooler endtanks. They will come apart at 18+psi after a few miles. Watch the tabs, they will start to get loose.

Being new at this...please explain...also, can you reach that high of boost with just an AP stage 1 flash?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 10:03 AM   #27
b16b
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 247157
Join Date: May 2010
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Kentucky
Vehicle:
2011 WRX Limited
Satin white pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoliver View Post
I hope they told you to keep an eye on your stock wrx intercooler endtanks. They will come apart at 18+psi after a few miles. Watch the tabs, they will start to get loose.
Do you have a link or proof of this?
b16b is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 10:42 AM   #28
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
10.9s @ 126mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoliver View Post
I hope they told you to keep an eye on your stock wrx intercooler endtanks. They will come apart at 18+psi after a few miles. Watch the tabs, they will start to get loose.
Good point, but I think that's part of the reason he stuck to the 16psi tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
Being new at this...please explain...also, can you reach that high of boost with just an AP stage 1 flash?
The COBB OTS Stage 1 tune peaks at 16.5psi of boost, so it shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b16b View Post
Do you have a link or proof of this?
Search the Legacy GT forums. They have had the same TMIC for a few years longer and there are quite a few pictures of them blown apart. I think some of them even happened at stock, or near stock boost levels.
xluben is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 10:45 AM   #29
Breezio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234357
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Sportwagen zum einbauen!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
Thanks I appreciate the response. I "had" a 2004 WRX a few years back. I had a COBB version two AP. But I did and up pipe, down pipe, with Turbo XS all at once. Woke up the car BIG TIME!

I wanted to verify that on a stock STI that a Stage one flash was "felt" and or worth it.
Just remember, he got a custom protune 'stage 1'.
He's not using an off the shelf stage1 map.

There can be a big difference between the two.
Breezio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:05 AM   #30
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezio View Post
Just remember, he got a custom protune 'stage 1'.
He's not using an off the shelf stage1 map.

There can be a big difference between the two.

Sorry for the greenhorn question...But could you please explain? I understand the off the shelf COBB AP. But when you say protune, you lost me in that concept. Need help in understanding when this would be required, needed. or wanted...Please help?
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:07 AM   #31
scooby24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56414
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breezio View Post
Just remember, he got a custom protune 'stage 1'.
He's not using an off the shelf stage1 map.

There can be a big difference between the two.
There is a big difference, but the OTS stage 1 map on the '11's are pretty nice. It definitely is a nice improvement.

scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:12 AM   #32
scooby24
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 56414
Join Date: Mar 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Olathe, KS
Vehicle:
2004 Forester XT 5MT
PSM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
Sorry for the greenhorn question...But could you please explain? I understand the off the shelf COBB AP. But when you say protune, you lost me in that concept. Need help in understanding when this would be required, needed. or wanted...Please help?
Protune is simply tuning a map to be specific for your car. Every car is different. For example, my car with the graph above had a 10.5:1 AFR instead of the 11.2:1 target that the OTS map should be hitting. If I protuned for my car, we could get the AFR's back where they should be and I'd make more power than the Off the shelf map and still be safe.
scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:13 AM   #33
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooby24 View Post
There is a big difference, but the OTS stage 1 map on the '11's are pretty nice. It definitely is a nice improvement.


So, if I am staying stock other than a K&N drop filter, and an AP from COBB (at a stage one flash) a Pro tune (?) is not needed or required...correct. I just want to protect the investment.

Thanks and sorry for the lack of knowledge here, but trying to learn a bit more every day...
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:29 AM   #34
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Sedan
10.9s @ 126mph

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
So, if I am staying stock other than a K&N drop filter, and an AP from COBB (at a stage one flash) a Pro tune (?) is not needed or required...correct. I just want to protect the investment.

Thanks and sorry for the lack of knowledge here, but trying to learn a bit more every day...
A pro tune (custom tune) is not required, but it can be done at any point. OTS tunes are conservative. With a custom tune you could choose to push the car further if you'd like. If you plan on staying at Stage 1 forever, you might want to consider a pro tune. If you are ever going to upgrade, you could just use the OTS tune until you get all of your upgrades done, and then get a pro tune (to save money on paying a tuner).

Here is an example of how a protune can provide larger gains over an OTS tune. The top line is the OP's Stage 1 18psi tune. The middle line is the COBB OTS Stage 1 tune. Not saying that a custom tune will magically (and safely) gain 20hp and 20ft-lbs of torque (in fact a custom tune may gain you very little), but there is the possibility for better gains with a custom tune. A custom tune could also notice spots in the OTS tune that don't look right (if there are any), and correct those. There really aren't any downside except for cost.

xluben is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 12:32 PM   #35
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Ok... Back from lunch now...

So, a Pro Tune is kind of "my car" car specific rather than an AP is just mass produced car specific...?
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 12:36 PM   #36
JohnnyG
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 164671
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: E. Canada
Location: Ottawa, ON, CA
Vehicle:
2009 WRX 265
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
Ok... Back from lunch now...

So, a Pro Tune is kind of "my car" car specific rather than an AP is just mass produced car specific...?
A OTS map that comes on the AP itself is a good tune that will work everywhere under many varying conditions, made to be safe.

A custom tune is custom for your car, how you drive, where you drive, whether you want full out power bragging or something with more area under the curve.
JohnnyG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 12:42 PM   #37
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Another dumb question...If I may...?

I know the 2009 + WRX and up are the ones to get. 08 not so much. But, when speaking about the boost etc...are the turbos and the boost amounts the same when utilizing the AP and tuning?

STI and the WRX ...Any differences ?Thanks guys...
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 12:42 PM   #38
2011 STI SEDAN
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 271872
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Indiana
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STI SEDAN
Gray Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyG View Post
A OTS map that comes on the AP itself is a good tune that will work everywhere under many varying conditions, made to be safe.

A custom tune is custom for your car, how you drive, where you drive, whether you want full out power bragging or something with more area under the curve.
Now it makes sense...THANKS
2011 STI SEDAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 10:27 PM   #39
KWIL
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 40848
Join Date: Jul 2003
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Moscow, Idaho
Vehicle:
2011 Impreza WRX
5-Door, DGM

Default

This thread had some activity while I was working today!

To add to the conversation about protune versus OTS, everything said above is correct--to elaborate on why I went protune:

I read and debated for months on buying just the AP, getting a protune, or doing an open source etune. (see Unabomber's complete guide on tuning)

I decided on the protune mainly because I read a couple bad stories about AP OTS stage 1 maps gone wrong (knowing most forum horror stories are either not accurate, lacking full mod disclosure, or are simply just corner cases). Still, I was nervous about whether I needed to log and learn about knock tables, etc...and what good/bad logs look like.

Given Surgeline's reputation and their 1/2 off deal when you buy the AP from them, I paid a little extra to "set it and forget it." I'm new and lack confidence so my primary goal was a safe, trustworthy tune. I got the max power I could for my individual vehicle and don't have to worry that the map isn't lining up right somewhere.

OTS maps are supposed to be very conservative to work with all cars + variation and should be plenty safe. It was a peace of mind thing for me.

If I want to risk some safety for power, I have a 17.5psi map I can use. Surgeline advised not using it on 100+ deg days and using higher quality octane fuel if available.

The experience of getting your car strapped to the dyno was pretty sweet, I learned a lot from that process, too.
KWIL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2011, 11:35 PM   #40
Breezio
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 234357
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Forest Grove, OR
Vehicle:
2009 WRX
Sportwagen zum einbauen!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWIL View Post
The experience of getting your car strapped to the dyno was pretty sweet, I learned a lot from that process, too.
Indeed it is. Loved getting the baseline on mine, wish I took some video...
Breezio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2011, 06:42 PM   #41
pet3r
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 283134
Join Date: May 2011
Location: AZ
Vehicle:
2008 STi AW
550whp - 530wtq

Default

Not trying to stir a pot, but, did anyone else notice the weirdness in these two maps that the OP has shared?

If you look at the "Stage 1 - green" vs "Stage 2 - blue", they are identical. Something can't be right about these two. Both claim 18psi boost, Stage2 was an Invidia DP, but their curve and numbers are identical. So, something is lying about these numbers
Could be that the tuner is trying to post bigger specs for their tunes than are realistic maybe?




pet3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2011, 06:00 PM   #42
mls1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 167607
Join Date: Dec 2007
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Dallas area
Vehicle:
2008 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011 STI SEDAN View Post
Good day guys...

I recently bought a 2011 STI sedan. It is my goal to keep things as stock as possible (for warranty). I was just wondering for those who have the COBB stage one flash..."What was your driving impressions after the flash?"
FYI...
Subaru can tell if you have flashed your ECU with a AP.
mls1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 05:53 PM   #43
csullivan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 111653
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Maryland
Vehicle:
2011 WRX STi
SWP

Default

How? What makes you think so?
csullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 06:05 PM   #44
Kunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 269732
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Jolly Ole England
Vehicle:
1997 Honda Accord
Purple/Black...Can't tell

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mls1 View Post
FYI...
Subaru can tell if you have flashed your ECU with a AP.
What if you flash it back to the original stock tune before you take it in for service? I was thinking of picking up an AP after I saw this thread, but if they can tell its been flashed then they will probably deny my claim if I ever have one.
Kunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 10:49 AM   #45
mtbiker278
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 242578
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maryland
Vehicle:
2010 WRX
Spark Silver

Default

I've read that there's a counter on the ECU that counts the number of times the ECU has been flashed. Assuming you start with 1 as the stock map, flash to a aftermarket map, then back to stock the counter would show 3 instead of 1. However they only way they could tell you did this is if your car was hooked up to their ECU programmer. Depending on what you take your can in for may lead them to try and trouble shoot the ECU.
mtbiker278 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:21 AM   #46
Kunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 269732
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Jolly Ole England
Vehicle:
1997 Honda Accord
Purple/Black...Can't tell

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbiker278 View Post
I've read that there's a counter on the ECU that counts the number of times the ECU has been flashed. Assuming you start with 1 as the stock map, flash to a aftermarket map, then back to stock the counter would show 3 instead of 1. However they only way they could tell you did this is if your car was hooked up to their ECU programmer. Depending on what you take your can in for may lead them to try and trouble shoot the ECU.
That stinks tremendously. After looking at all the charts I really want to get an AP for just a stage 1 tune, but I REALLY don't want to risk it. Darn you Subaru for putting a bad tune on it initially.
Kunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 11:40 AM   #47
cdoliver
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 34084
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: cleveland,oh
Vehicle:
2002 wrx

Default

The only thing they can tell is how long its been since the ecu was reset. This is what the counter does. Same thing happens when you disconnect the battery. So flashing back to stock looks the same to them as disconnecting/reconnecting the battery. This comes from a buddy that works at subaru.
cdoliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 12:53 PM   #48
flycaster
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60142
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoliver View Post
...So flashing back to stock looks the same to them as disconnecting/reconnecting the battery...
IF that's the case, then a re-flash back to stock wouldn't matter. Batteries are frequently disconnected in service bays to avoid unintentional grounding or shocks. So, what good does this supposed "counter" do them? Nada. Heck, I just had some stereo work done and I know the battery was disconnected and reconnected at least 3 times...so SOA would accuse me of "re-flashing" my ECU 4-5 times? BS, they are not that stupid.

I just called my dealer, who's a friend of mine, and asked him about this. He laughed, then told me as long as there isn't a DP on the car, they don't hunt for tunes. Maybe other dealers are different, I dunno.

Last edited by flycaster; 07-13-2011 at 01:06 PM.
flycaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 01:03 PM   #49
Kunk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 269732
Join Date: Jan 2011
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Jolly Ole England
Vehicle:
1997 Honda Accord
Purple/Black...Can't tell

Default

I read in another post awhile back that somebody claimed the same exact thing as cdoliver said, so now I'm on the fence.
Kunk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2011, 01:13 PM   #50
OrbitalEllipses
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 178811
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MoCo
Vehicle:
2013 WRB BRZ
:banana:

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flycaster View Post
IF that's the case, then a re-flash back to stock wouldn't matter. Batteries are frequently disconnected in service bays to avoid unintentional grounding or shocks. So, what good does this supposed "counter" do them? Nada. Heck, I just had some stereo work done and I know the battery was disconnected and reconnected at least 3 times...so SOA would accuse me of "re-flashing" my ECU 4-5 times? BS, they are not that stupid.

I just called my dealer, who's a friend of mine, and asked him about this. He laughed, then told me as long as there isn't a DP on the car, they don't hunt for tunes. Maybe other dealers are different, I dunno.
Pop a motor or blow a tranny...they'll hunt for tunes then.
OrbitalEllipses is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2011 WRX - Stage 2 - COBB Downpipe and SPT Exhaust (VIDEO) xluben General Community 47 01-19-2011 01:32 AM
Stock 2011 WRX Dyno numbers MotorrBoatrr Proven Power Bragging 75 10-26-2010 06:59 PM
STOCK 2011 WRX/STi Coming in September! Evanston Subaru MWSOC Vendor Classifieds 12 09-01-2010 02:39 PM
Dyno Tune: 2.5l wrx+ ATP 3076r Stock location syagbraves7 Proven Power Bragging 9 03-25-2010 04:43 PM
Agile Dyno Day - MY 07 WRX Stage 2 96accord Proven Power Bragging 38 03-07-2008 05:27 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.