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Old 03-20-2011, 12:51 PM   #2526
Phatron
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For the ext and int wg I was just thinking that they may be fighting each other causing a hesitation.

As I've said before....those guys in that thread are on rotated gt35+ turbos at 25+ psi

This is simply not a common problem on small turbos.

And they have all suggested the same stuff......and do it in order of cheapness

Gap tighter
Copper plugs
Swap coils with someone

I don't think I have seen anyone running an ignition booster on anything smaller than a gt35.
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Old 03-20-2011, 01:47 PM   #2527
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Your probably right that an even tighter gap would fix it, but I want the benefits of a larger gap while still being able to light the mix at 20psi. So I guess your about to see a small turbo'd car run an ignition booster lol.

as for swapping coils with someone....I'd rather just buy lightly used ones. The only other guy I know with a wrx in the area is an 02 which has different coil packs.

PM me with what you usually like to see logged. I just grabbed a log of 16.5-17 psi and its logging ok. I'll hook my mbc back up and grab another log later at 20.
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:25 PM   #2528
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are there any higher voltage coils for subaru's
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Old 03-22-2011, 03:35 PM   #2529
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Okada projects may be, but I'm not sure
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Old 03-22-2011, 04:39 PM   #2530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
Okada projects may be, but I'm not sure
Quote:
The Plasma Direct Ignition Coils produce 4 times more spark energy than stock coils and also generate an ultra fast multi spark discharge of 10 sparks up to highest RPM. The spark amperage is increased 100%, allowing the spark to reach many more molecules and therefore accelerate the ignition and combustion process. This is extremely important in forced induction applications but also improves the performance of naturally aspirated engines.
looks like 2x amps and 4x the voltage so 8x the power.
Dayum... that probably makes it go from blow out to having to retard all your timing points by a lot.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:23 PM   #2531
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I think phil at element had a customer try those overpriced coils and they really didn't make any difference.Unless you have a way to boost primary voltage to the coil from 13.5-14 to 20-21(like with an ign. booster) you are not really going to increase spark energy.
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:17 PM   #2532
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Still waiting on my boost-a-spark. I ordered from evolution performance on Wednesday and it still hasn't shipped. Might have to call tomorrow.

Those coils look interesting, but I agree with ^^john^^, from what I've seen you gotta get the voltage higher.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:57 PM   #2533
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^^ yep like I posted before I am lucky enough to have one of the original xsengineering ign. amplifier and it works great,checked it with my fluke and it does bump the primary voltage to 21 volts and have never had a misfire.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:46 AM   #2534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
^^ yep like I posted before I am lucky enough to have one of the original xsengineering ign. amplifier and it works great,checked it with my fluke and it does bump the primary voltage to 21 volts and have never had a misfire.
^^I also remember the plasma were called a waste of time for the $.

John what boost level does your ign booster kick in? (i've read of others starting at 6psi)
I really like the sound of 21v to the coils --
Have you had to replace any coils due to wear with high volts?
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:34 AM   #2535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Power View Post
many cars with UTECs have issues with coil packs blowing out. I believe it has to do with the dwell that is programmed in the utec. The values don't "stay" on anything with a UTEC. It's just that the coil packs on previously UTEC equipped cars go out a lot. I've seen it over and over.
Thanks for the answer. My car currently has an opensource tune, but I still have a UTEC in the car set to "0" that I use as a knock light, can it still have an effect on the coil packs?
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:31 PM   #2536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenracer6 View Post
^^I also remember the plasma were called a waste of time for the $.

John what boost level does your ign booster kick in? (i've read of others starting at 6psi)
I really like the sound of 21v to the coils --
Have you had to replace any coils due to wear with high volts?
no boost setting it is wired into the power source to the coils,all it is is an amplifier --1 wire in 1 wire out and a gnd wire.It pretty much increases the voltage to the coils all the time so theoretically you could get away with decreasing the dwell time on your coils since they don't have to energize as long since they are getting more voltage.Oh and no I am still on the original coils with no issues.I just wish that xsengineering still made them because now with e85 there would be a greater demand for them and they were priced pretty well at 289.00 vs. hks box at iirc 550.00.
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Old 03-23-2011, 03:53 PM   #2537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumfoo1 View Post
looks like 2x amps and 4x the voltage so 8x the power.
Dayum... that probably makes it go from blow out to having to retard all your timing points by a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
I think phil at element had a customer try those overpriced coils and they really didn't make any difference.Unless you have a way to boost primary voltage to the coil from 13.5-14 to 20-21(like with an ign. booster) you are not really going to increase spark energy.
One of my customers has had his Okada coils replaced a couple times now. They keep failing and we didn't notice a difference at all. So he sold them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OppositeLock View Post
Thanks for the answer. My car currently has an opensource tune, but I still have a UTEC in the car set to "0" that I use as a knock light, can it still have an effect on the coil packs?
The utec interupts the spark control signal... I honestly don't know how it is affected at 0. However, if you're having issues with what seems to be blowout, then it's possible that is your problem.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:17 PM   #2538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
no boost setting it is wired into the power source to the coils,all it is is an amplifier --1 wire in 1 wire out and a gnd wire.It pretty much increases the voltage to the coils all the time so theoretically you could get away with decreasing the dwell time on your coils since they don't have to energize as long since they are getting more voltage.Oh and no I am still on the original coils with no issues.I just wish that xsengineering still made them because now with e85 there would be a greater demand for them and they were priced pretty well at 289.00 vs. hks box at iirc 550.00.
Can the 2.0L guys with black coils use the grey 2.5L coils??
Is there a difference between them?
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:29 PM   #2539
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iirc they are interchangeable,at the least you may have to switch over the rubber boots from the blacks to the grays if they are different lengths.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:30 PM   #2540
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there are differences. The boot length on the spark plug is one of the bigger differences. You have to be sure to run the right boot.

The coils will plug in and run fine. the black coil equipped cars run longer dwell from the factory than the grey coils. I like the black coils.

Just because it's a 2.5 doesn't make it better. The 2L has a few things that are better. The water pump for one.
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Old 03-23-2011, 04:40 PM   #2541
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I never noticed that what is better about the 2.0 waterpump Dom?
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Old 03-24-2011, 01:29 AM   #2542
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Not to break the combo here but xsnapshot and I started tuning for E85 on Monday. I believe we ran into spark blowout, though. It physically stutters after it gets into more boost. Gap is around .028" right now and I am going to tighten it up to around .023" tomorrow morning/afternoon and see what that does. I am excited to get it running good though! I love the corn fuel already!

EDIT:

Modded light blue topfeeds 830cc's
Stock Evo 8 190lph fuel pump
NGK V Power coppers gapped to .028"
TBE Exhaust

Not exactly sure on IDC's or any of that yet as we have not even touched the boost. I am waiting to get the stuttering/misfire issue figured out before we start shooting for more power. I also need to get a manual boost controller before we start messing with adding a significant amount of boost.

Last edited by 99STM; 03-24-2011 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:33 AM   #2543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI
I never noticed that what is better about the 2.0 waterpump Dom?
Better impeller design. Crawford sells them as their own on their site as if they build them...
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:37 AM   #2544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99STM
Not to break the combo here but xsnapshot and I started tuning for E85 on Monday. I believe we ran into spark blowout, though. It physically stutters after it gets into more boost. Gap is around .028" right now and I am going to tighten it up to around .023" tomorrow morning/afternoon and see what that does. I am excited to get it running good though! I love the corn fuel already!


EDIT:

Modded light blue topfeeds 830cc's
Stock Evo 8 190lph fuel pump
NGK V Power coppers gapped to .028"
TBE Exhaust

Not exactly sure on IDC's or any of that yet as we have not even touched the boost. I am waiting to get the stuttering/misfire issue figured out before we start shooting for more power. I also need to get a manual boost controller before we start messing with adding a significant amount of boost.

I don't understand what is going on. You shouldn't have to reduce the gap that far. I run almost 30 psi on factory coils with 030 gap. I've NEVER had any car on e85 suffer from blowout like half you guys here. I have to think that there is either a common mechanical problem or a common tuning problem.

Do we need to get into afr on e85 again?
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:59 AM   #2545
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Does it happen at low boost? 14 psi?

After seeing the modlist I'd change the fuel pump and injectors.

I'd start cheap....try coppers first, then the fp, then coils, then the injectors.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:24 AM   #2546
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sure its not just plain misfiring? cars under boost feel much different when they misfire compared to NA cars IMO. also if you fuel pump can't keep up it's a strange feeling
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:49 AM   #2547
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my walbro 255 was maxing out, and i didn't really notice a driveability/misfire difference. the only indication i even had that the fuel pump was struggling up top was my wideband. i was targeting around 12:1 and it was leaning out to around 12.5 above 5500rpm. now if the fuel pump is dying or significantly too small for the setup then that is a whole different story...
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:54 AM   #2548
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^ what injectors are you using?
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #2549
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Just to provide some background info on 99STM's car

We started tuning yesterday and it would break up really bad every time he went WOT. We are also having issues with it leaning out up top really bad (like all the way to high 13.x:1) It seems to breakup whenever boost rises above 13 psi.

It threw an EVAP leak (small) code as well, so i'm thinking there might be a pre-turbo leak drawing in unmetered air. We also had a cylinder 1 missfire, and just some other strange AFR issues.

He's going to pressure test the intake tract and re-gap the plugs. Definitely some mechanical issues going on here.

And I'm still waiting for that damn boost-a-spark! Gah!
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #2550
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Leaning out uncontrollably at high rpm is a sign that the fp can't keep up.

U would need a huge turbo inlet leak to lean out that much.

What's the idc?
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