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Old 04-26-2010, 07:52 PM   #51
MJMpkc
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what would be some good after market brake pads that arent too expensive for a 2006 Impreza??
thanks
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:12 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by MJMpkc View Post
what would be some good after market brake pads that arent too expensive for a 2006 Impreza??
thanks
It depends entirely on what you want them to do. For starters I'd take a read through the article linked in this thread. That'll get you started with some brake pad basics. Figure out how you are going to use the car and what type of pads you need. When you're ready start a new thread and ask people for specific recommendations geared toward how you use your car.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1841359
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:50 AM   #53
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Nice, thanks
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Old 05-19-2010, 10:32 AM   #54
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Hello, I have a 2002 WRX with stock brakes that are pretty much gone. The car vibrates like crazy when I step on the pedal and there's no grab to the brakes at all. I'd like to do an upgrade to better disks and pads, but after reading through about 30 threads I have more options than I started with.

I drive my car pretty hard, 80-90 on the freeway, 40 in town, and 70 around corkscrews. I'm moving to LA, so I'm going to need some brakes that dissipate heat really well and can handle a lot of sudden braking and stop and go traffic. I'd like to keep it around $500 for all 4 wheels if at all possible.

Lately I've been resorting to engine braking a lot and I'm starting to feel it in the clutch. Some help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:38 AM   #55
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I've been told on another thread that I probably need to rebuild my calipers. So I'm going to try that, but I also want to get good rotors that are going to last a long time. I've been through more than a dozen threads and haven't really found that much help on the rotor or pad issue. I'm thinking of going with slotted. I've read the thread on all the brake data, and I think slotted will last a lot longer for me.

I've found a set I really like. I would like some input from people who know, on whether they're any good or not. If not, which would be better, and which pads I should get?

The rotors are EBC's Ultimax Blackdash Slotted Rotors http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sk...n+%26+Steering

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-27-2010, 12:55 PM   #56
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For the most part one set of rotors isn't going to last longer than another. They are all made from cast iron. Durability is a property of the material, not the name of the manufacturer. The big difference is the quality put into manufacturing the rotor.

One way you can save on cost is to buy standard non-slotted or drilled rotors. When they wear down or you build up pad deposits its usually $10-20 at your local autoparts store to have them turned down and you can reuse them (usually once). For that I would recommend the Centric Premium rotors. You can do all four corners of your car for under $200. PM WRXBrakes for a price quote or check their website (knsbrakes.com).

Brake pads are a whole different deal. If you want/need high fade resistance then you want a more aggressive pad. The down side is that aggressive pads tend to make more noise, produce more dust, eat up rotors faster, cost more money, and don't work very well at colder temperatures. KNS Brakes also carries the Stoptech street performance pads, which have been getting some really good reviews lately. There is a thread about them here in the suspension forum if you want to read about 'em. I just put a set on my girlfriend's tC and I'm impressed so far. They were a significant jump from her stock brake pads, but I think they might actually be better than my Carbotech Bobcats which cost twice as much.

Next time I change rotors and pads it'll be Centric rotors and the Stoptech pads. I priced it out last week...$270+ shipping from KNS Brakes. You can use the rest of your $500 budget to flush out your brake lines and use a higher temp DOT 4 fluid ($20), and perhaps donate the rest of the budget toward some stickier summer tires that'll help increase braking performance by improving grip.
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Old 05-28-2010, 03:58 PM   #57
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For the most part one set of rotors isn't going to last longer than another. They are all made from cast iron. Durability is a property of the material, not the name of the manufacturer. The big difference is the quality put into manufacturing the rotor.
It would be nice and easy if this were true, but it certainly is not. There are a lot of choices when selecting gray irons for rotor castings, such as G1800, G2500, G3000, G3500, and so on. Some even use high-strength ductile iron, but that does give different friction and abrasion resistance properties. Even within the variants, there are very wide alloy and impurities tolerances that can be tweaked to give better results.

Most of the stuff coming out of Taiwan and China (and probably India as well) are made from G2500 or G3000 at best. Well, OK, they SAY it is. Some of their U.S. distributors don't really know or haven't checked. The trouble is that there is "good" iron (with less impurities) and "bad iron" (more impurities). You are correct that within any one specification, you can pour either good or bad iron. It depends a lot on how the melting occurs, the tooling process, the plant procedures and a ton of other stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby921 View Post
One way you can save on cost is to buy standard non-slotted or drilled rotors. When they wear down or you build up pad deposits its usually $10-20 at your local autoparts store to have them turned down and you can reuse them (usually once).
Slotted and/or drilled rotors can be turned if done with care, but I have found it is better to use higher quality rotors that survive 2-3 pads sets. I do scrub them with a Flex-Hone or Scotch-Brite when changing pads to remove the old transfer layer. Some pad compound are highly incompatible with others and cause trouble if mixed. Turning is a last resort as it lightens the rotor, removing some heat capacity.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:00 PM   #58
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That Stoptech article says that vibrations during braking are not caused by warping. Instead, it gives the reason as "friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc". My question now becomes: What caues the friction pad material to transfer unevenly to the surface of the disc? I couldn't find the answer to that anywhere.

Another question I had regarding that article is this: Does the article imply that warping (ie misshapen rotors due to excessive heat) doesn't exist, or does it imply that it exists, but it just doesn't cause vibrations during braking.
Do a google search on "rotor runout" that's what gives you the pulsation in the pedal. Rotors don't actually warp, it's when the rotor wobbles past it's maximum tolerance (measured in thousandths of an inch) and the pad will actually wear low spots in the rotor causing the "warped" rotor feel.
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Old 09-26-2010, 07:17 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewritingwriter View Post
Do a google search on "rotor runout" that's what gives you the pulsation in the pedal. Rotors don't actually warp, it's when the rotor wobbles past it's maximum tolerance (measured in thousandths of an inch) and the pad will actually wear low spots in the rotor causing the "warped" rotor feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckywang View Post
That Stoptech article says that vibrations during braking are not caused by warping. Instead, it gives the reason as "friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc". My question now becomes: What caues the friction pad material to transfer unevenly to the surface of the disc? I couldn't find the answer to that anywhere.

Another question I had regarding that article is this: Does the article imply that warping (ie misshapen rotors due to excessive heat) doesn't exist, or does it imply that it exists, but it just doesn't cause vibrations during braking.
The Stoptech article, and chuckywang, are closer to correct than thewriting. Brake rotors can and do physically deform in response to thermal stresses though it is MUCH more common for them to deform in response to uneven lug nut torque. Additionally, normal service conditions don't produce thermal stresses severe enough to produce physical deformation. Getting a rotor cherry red from racing and then quenching half of it with water, for example, is the level of thermal extremes we're talking about here. Even once the rotor has deformed, most deformations can't actually alter the braking force developed.

Consider runout. When the "high" portion of the runout slides through the caliper, the caliper simply floats over to follow the rotor. In the case of an opposed piston design, one piston extends while the other retracts. The centerline of the caliper follows the centerline of the rotor in either case.

Now, consider uneven deposition of pad material to the rotor. At places where minimal transfer has occurred, the rotor is physically thinner than average. At places where excessive pad material has been deposited, the rotor is physically thicker than average. When transitioning between relatively thinner and thicker portions of the rotor, the effective clamping force changes. This modulates the resultant braking force and produces the pulsing you experience.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:05 PM   #60
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^^^ Yes you are also correct. But for the most part, like 95% of the time on the street it's caused by something other than thermal stress. Most people don't get their rotors cherry red on the street. Racing is a completely different story.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:27 PM   #61
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^^^ Yes you are also correct. But for the most part, like 95% of the time on the street it's caused by something other than thermal stress. Most people don't get their rotors cherry red on the street. Racing is a completely different story.
Getting (good quality) rotors cherry red or even white hot is not the root cause for many rotor issues. It's what people do with them after they are hot. Pros know that a cool-down lap is required to bring temps down to just smokin' hot before heading to the paddock. Newbies sometimes bring their car to a stop with hot rotors and sit with their foot on the brake pedal. This is a sure fire way to cause brake judder from one or both of two phenomenon:
  1. Pad print off. This is easy to spot as the pad leaves a witness mark on the rotor. That spot now has more pad transfer film thickness than the rest of the rotor, meaning the fiction coefficient is slightly different. From this point forward, every time that section passes between the pads, they grab just a little more --> brake judder.
  2. Formation of cementite. If the rotors are extremely hot and the brakes are applied at rest, carbon from the pad compound gets pulled into the iron rotor surface. With enough carbon, the rotor at that point can setup a very hard crystalline structure -- cementite. Since this spot is now quite a bit harder than the rest of the rotor, it won't wear nearly as much. While the rest of the rotor wears per normal, it becomes thinner everywhere but this harder spot. Now the tech will measure the rotors with a rotor mic and say they are "warped" --> brake judder.
There are other causes for brake pedal pulsation or judder, but these two are the most likely when dealing with rotors that have been to extreme temperatures. So, yes, most street driving won't cause these sorts of problems, unless a caliper is sticking or a rubber brake line has collapsed internally.

Chris
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:36 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thewritingwriter View Post
^^^ Yes you are also correct. But for the most part, like 95% of the time on the street it's caused by something other than thermal stress. Most people don't get their rotors cherry red on the street. Racing is a completely different story.
That is, in fact, exactly my point. People aren't getting rotors hot enough to deform them. Therefore, brake pulse is not caused by rotor deformation.

It's caused by uneven pad deposition.
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:47 PM   #63
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ABS Delete,

i scanned through the thread and didnt see anything about deleting ABS. im in the prosess of bypassing my ABS by rerouting my brake lines and im not feeling confident. im building a "Stage Rally Car" and the ABS really makes it hard to stop in the gravel/dirt. ive seen it done before on other forums but never seen it in person. has anyone done this and do you have any pictures?
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:56 AM   #64
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looking to buy an STI, dont know much about them but a guy at my shop thought he heard that if you go to replace the brakes on an 04 sti that you have to replace the calipers because of a special tool to push back the pistons. is this true or not? thanks
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:26 AM   #65
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looking to buy an STI, dont know much about them but a guy at my shop thought he heard that if you go to replace the brakes on an 04 sti that you have to replace the calipers because of a special tool to push back the pistons. is this true or not? thanks

100% not true ...
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:56 AM   #66
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awesome, thank you
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:37 AM   #67
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Default slotted, drilled or OEM?

thanks for all that info. I'm still left with numerous options for replacement rotors and pads from $200 - $500. Do I get what I pay for? Is there a good choice for $200 with front rotors and pads?

thanks!!
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Old 06-01-2011, 12:15 PM   #68
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There are a lot of good options for 2-3 hundred bananas. A decent rotor with good pads is in the center of that spectrum.

- joe

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Originally Posted by stevem View Post
thanks for all that info. I'm still left with numerous options for replacement rotors and pads from $200 - $500. Do I get what I pay for? Is there a good choice for $200 with front rotors and pads?

thanks!!
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:58 PM   #69
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Just threw on a set of Centric premium rotors on my 04 FXT, and I am really impressed so far. Will do the fronts as soon as they're due
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:39 AM   #70
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can someone suggest to me a decent brand name of brakes? good bad experiences? weekend driver, no track days or anything like that. I'm wanting ceramics for the low noise/dust, but i also want something with decent bite for those curvy mountain roads. anything above subaru stock would be good.

also, 2007 impreza 2.5i
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:17 AM   #71
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A Hawk Performance Ceramic pad would suit you well. Very low dust and noise, but still good bite.

- Joe
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:20 AM   #72
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First off... Don't shoot! I know this brake info gets some of you rather heated.

I am planning on upgrading my pads and fluid but keeping stock rotors (for now) and calipers (also for now). I will be going with DOT 4 fluid, but am not sure about pads yet. I am also wanting pads that are quiet with low dusting, but that perform well as I do drive ...um, well, I will say quick

I have read that the Napa Autoparts Ultra Premium Ceramic pads (which are made by Raybestos) are really good pads which offer good bite, low noise and dust, and don't ware rotors excessively. What are the opinions around here? How do they rate compared to the Hawk pads mentioned above or the pads made by EBC?
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Old 07-28-2011, 12:26 AM   #73
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First off... Don't shoot! I know this brake info gets some of you rather heated.

I am planning on upgrading my pads and fluid but keeping stock rotors (for now) and calipers (also for now). I will be going with DOT 4 fluid, but am not sure about pads yet. I am also wanting pads that are quiet with low dusting, but that perform well as I do drive ...um, well, I will say quick

I have read that the Napa Autoparts Ultra Premium Ceramic pads (which are made by Raybestos) are really good pads which offer good bite, low noise and dust, and don't ware rotors excessively. What are the opinions around here? How do they rate compared to the Hawk pads mentioned above or the pads made by EBC?
If you are looking for bite, then ceramic pads are definitely not the way to go. Hawk Performance Ceramics give up just about the least bite, but that's about it. EBC's are generally very low quality pads. Sometimes they work OK and other times they don't. And that is if you stick to the same compound!

On fluid, there are huge variables in brake fluid, other than just "DOT4". Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. The more expensive fluids are denser, have less trapped moisture, are bottled in dry nitrogen (instead of atmospheric air), are less compressible and have higher actual field boiling points.

Chris
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:14 PM   #74
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OK, so Ceramic are out, and brake dust is in..... noted.

Are the Hawk pads considred some of the best if everything else is stock (rotors and caliper wise that is)?
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:46 PM   #75
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no. hawk are considered best if you want oem type performance with lots more dust. if you want cold bite and dont plan to use the car on a track or do long downhill runs where heavy repetitive braking will occur, stock pads are pretty good. Stoptech street performance are also great for spirited driving and heavy street use and even weekend track use on a stock or close to stock car. they give up a little bit of cold bite, but its almost not noticeable unless you think about it. they also have a nice linear modulation and can take more heat than hawk HP+/S pad by a long shot. dusting is more than stock but less than a track pad or hawk HP+ in my experience. There are lots of other pads that fit your bill, like the DS2500, but they all have compromises in one area or another.

Why are you upgrading your pads, anyway? what were the stock pads falling short of? this info will be helpful in finding a pad that will meet your needs without causing excess noise, dusting, cost, etc.
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