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Old 08-11-2011, 07:31 PM   #1
mightymints
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Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:41 AM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:53 AM   #2
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Something is seriously wrong here based on those logs. Your DAM has dropped to 0.38 and the ECU is still attempting to pull timing. What is this history of this car? Did it have prior mods? Was it bought used?

A stage 1 map is not going cause the issue you are seeing. Likely you have the same problem on the stock map.

On older cars, when there's this kind of issue, barring previous engine damage, it could be a bad MAF sensor or front o2 sensor. Usually, after a good bit of driving, you'll see unusual corrections in your long-term fuel trims if this is the case. If it has been awhile since you reflashed a map, reset the ECU or disconnected the car's battery, check out the current A/F Learning 1 A, B, C, D values via the AccessPORT and report back.

Bill
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:16 AM   #3
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Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:21 AM   #4
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The dealership isn't going to care what any logs show and the fact that you have logs may be sticking point that you modified the ECU. Generally speaking, they are going to want to see some very noticeable driveability symptom(s) before making any diagnosis for warranty repair.

Given the engine has been pulled and replaced, this really could be anything. The knock sensor may have been overtorqued when installed causing knock to be reported when none exists (false knock). You can also get false knock if something in the engine bay is rattling that is picked up by the knock sensor (like a loose heatshield). Given the history of the car, it could be that the motor is on its way out. It could also be some other mechanical issue (bad MAF, bad front o2, etc.).

Do you have any wide open throttle (WOT) runs in those logs (if so can you point out the row number)? I would not do any WOT runs at this point but if you have them already it would be good to take a look.

Bill
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:39 PM   #5
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Damn, that sucks. I guess when my warranty finishes transferring into my name ill take it in and ask them why I have instability in acceleration and also what the ticking sound is.

One thing I do know is that there is some kind of rattle coming from under the car, like something is loose. I believe its the exhaust taping on something sue to the bushings being the wrong ones. Is that something that could possibly be detected?

I will also go and check all the shielding in the engine bay. How big of a rattle are we talking that would be detected, and how common is it that the sensor could possibly pick up those things?

Thanks for your help. As you can probably tell, im ****ting bricks right now, I just want a normal STi.
Is the car even safe to drive, or are the corrections going to do more damage than its worth?
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Old 08-12-2011, 03:30 PM   #6
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Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 08-12-2011, 04:35 PM   #7
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On the second video, I can hear a hiss sound. Sounds like air is leaking.

Do you have a boost gauge hooked up?Run you hand along the hoses to see if you can feel leaked air.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:25 PM   #8
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Ok so my boost gauge hose is split. Would that leak cause all this?
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:09 PM   #9
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thats no good. replace that a.s.ap. then take a log again to see where you're at.
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:28 PM   #10
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Bill,

I have been seeing some knock on my logs as well. I also experience some very intense bucking at times at WOT. The car is a 02 WRX and when i got the car it had 3 previous owners. I am not aware of any mods they have done to it, but when i got it, the restrictor pill was in the wrong hose
The car now has 82,XXX miles on it. Here are some logs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymints View Post
Hmm, I have found something under the hood.

One of the pipes that leads into the stock BOV has a split in it. When the engine is running, and i move the pipe, I can hear air hissing out.

Please please please tell me that this could be caused by something as simple as that lol? If not, I guess ill have to continue my hunt Thanks,

Ash
Ash,

I would definitely get that fixed. I would also do a pressure test of the intake to see if there are any other vacuum/boost leaks.

Bill
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by HoTBoX111 View Post
Bill,

I have been seeing some knock on my logs as well. I also experience some very intense bucking at times at WOT. The car is a 02 WRX and when i got the car it had 3 previous owners. I am not aware of any mods they have done to it, but when i got it, the restrictor pill was in the wrong hose
The car now has 82,XXX miles on it. Here are some logs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0
What map have you reflashed? As far as you know the car has no mods?

If you can do so safely, log a wide open throttle (WOT) run from about 2500 RPM to near redline.

Bill
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:24 AM   #13
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Cheers Bill,

Are you at the Austin location by any chance?

Ash
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Old 08-13-2011, 11:27 AM   #14
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Cheers Bill,

Are you at the Austin location by any chance?

Ash
I'm not - I work from home.

Bill
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Old 08-13-2011, 01:34 PM   #15
mightymints
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fixed

Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:16 PM   #16
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It looks better but your WOT run was done too soon after the reset when the dynamic advance mult. had not yet learned up to 1.0 (in fact it learned up to 1.0 during your WOT run). I would try another 3rd gear run from around 2500 RPM to near redline if you can do so safely.

Something is up with your fuel trims. At times, the ECU is learning to pull up to 11% of fuel. That is indicative of a post-MAF leak (boost), bad MAF, or bad front o2. First I would get a pressure test of the intake done. Considering the repairs that have been done, a vacuum/boost leak (or multiple ones) is probably the most likely, although bad MAF or bad front o2 is not entirely uncommon.

Bill
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Old 08-13-2011, 06:37 PM   #17
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Bill,

Thanks for your help. I am currently running stage 1 93 octane. The car has no mods as of right now, but what i was saying was I'm not sure if the previous owners had done anything to it internally before selling it; someone had to of been in there because the restrictor pill was in the wrong hose, unless that's the dealerships way of keeping boost down while people test drive it.
So, I did the wide open throttle run in 3rd gear up to 6300, as usual around 4500 it started bucking, almost like it was getting deprived of fuel. Right when i reached 6300, a treacherous grinding sound came from the front end, so i quickly threw it into neutral. I also smelled what smelt like metal on metal only for a second, so i put it into 5th and it ran fine all the way home.

WOT
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Cruising home in 5th
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Your help is much appreciated.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by HoTBoX111 View Post
Bill,

Thanks for your help. I am currently running stage 1 93 octane. The car has no mods as of right now, but what i was saying was I'm not sure if the previous owners had done anything to it internally before selling it; someone had to of been in there because the restrictor pill was in the wrong hose, unless that's the dealerships way of keeping boost down while people test drive it.
So, I did the wide open throttle run in 3rd gear up to 6300, as usual around 4500 it started bucking, almost like it was getting deprived of fuel. Right when i reached 6300, a treacherous grinding sound came from the front end, so i quickly threw it into neutral. I also smelled what smelt like metal on metal only for a second, so i put it into 5th and it ran fine all the way home.

WOT
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Cruising home in 5th
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

Your help is much appreciated.
Something is seriously wrong with the car. Your DAM is at 0 in the logs which means there either quite a few knock events during even moderate driving, your motor is on its way out (and the resulting noise is picked up by knock sensor), or there something loose in the engine bay that the knock sensor is picking up.

Definitely do not do anymore aggressive driving.

I would start with a compression/leak-down test and go from there. If you have any kind of coverage from the dealership on this used car, keep in mind that they are not going to care about what any logs say (in fact they may deny any warranty claim if they know you modified the ECU).

Bill
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:26 PM   #19
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This is definitely what i didn't want to hear. I guess it's better i find out sooner than later. Thanks for all your help Bill, time to save up for internals i guess.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:20 AM   #20
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Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:32 AM   #21
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This is definitely what i didn't want to hear. I guess it's better i find out sooner than later. Thanks for all your help Bill, time to save up for internals i guess.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. If the "grinding" noise you heard was internal engine damage, you likely wouldn't have made it home and the noise would have got worse and worse.

It could be something loose in the engine bay that the knock sensor is picking up. You might want to try putting the car in neutral with the parking brake on and then rev the motor via the throttle connection at the throttle body with the hood open and see if you hear anything.

Bill
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:48 AM   #22
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Bill, I went to a car meet tonight and due to it being busy on the roads, the best pull at WOT I could get was the following:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...hl=en_US#gid=0

But I will get you a 2500 to redline tomorrow.

At the meet, various people checked over my car and said that it sounds fine, and one of the guys is going to help me do some pressure testing this week which is sweet.

Just so I understand a little more, how can you tell that it is pulling 11% of fuel from those tables?

Thanks again, I definitely owe you some beers!
In your previous logs, A/F Learning 1 (your long-term fuel trims) has touched on -10% and -11%. There are 4 different A/F Learning 1 values (A,B,C,D) that can change at any time based on patterns of your short-term fuel trims (A/F Correction 1). When you log A/F Learning 1, it is showing you the current applied learning (the 4 are stored and applied across 4 different mass airflow ranges).

Generally, A/F Learning should stay somewhere around +/- 5%. When you start seeing double digits, it can indicate a potential fueling-related problem:
1. Aftermarket injectors and/or intake used and not tuned properly in the map (does not apply to you if your car is all stock besides a catback and you are using our stage 1 OTS maps).

2. Post-MAF sensor, pre-front o2 intake/boost leak - Air that has already been metered is being lost (go rich) or air is being introduced into the system that has not metered (go lean).

3. Bad MAF sensor - ECU calculates airflow and therefore load and fueling based on MAF sensor, so if airflow is different than actual because of bad MAF sensor, fueling will be off and, in closed loop, the ECU will attempt to correct this via front o2 feedback (which you will see as more extreme short-term and long-term fuel trims).

4. Bad front o2 - ECU uses front o2 for feedback in closed loop. If that feedback is wrong, the ECU will be making the incorrect corrections causing fuel to be off in closed loop (and possibly in open loop via "D" range A/F Learning 1).

5. Some other mechanical issue - leaky injector, fuel pressure issues, etc.

You can't necessarily hear an intake leak (nor find it visually), so it is good that you are getting a pressure test done.

Bill

Last edited by Cobb Tuning; 08-14-2011 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 09:24 AM   #23
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Wow, exactly what I needed to know. Everything makes allot more sense now!
I'll report back with that WOT and then well wait until I presses test too.

I also will probably go to Austin Cobb and get a smoke test if it needs it.

Thanks so much, I am learning a huge amount in this thread! The accessport has been an amazing investment!
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:20 PM   #24
mightymints
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Last edited by mightymints; 10-07-2011 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:44 AM   #25
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You have multiple correction to fine knock learning being applied at WOT. This is generally based on past knock, so there's some issue there. An occasional single correction is acceptable (ex. -1.4), but not when you have multiple corrections (ex. -4.2, -5.6) at high load.

Your A/F Learning at -10% is something you need to look at. You can also log A/F Correction 1 which will give you your short-term fuel trims. You might be able to see other patterns here in closed loop (at various loads) that has not been learned yet.

The -10% A/F Learning is giving you a clue that something is up with the fueling. I would get the pressure test/smoke test done to start.

Bill
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