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Old 10-24-2011, 09:44 AM   #26
Detslider
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Is there some system of rotation to decide what saleman approaches a customer?
Does it mess up rotation or piss you off if you approach me and I tell you I'm "just looking"? Do you then go to the back of the line?

Is it possible to negotiate a better price if I pay cash or am pre-approved for credit vs applying for credit?
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:11 AM   #27
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what dealership should i go to in the MD/VA/DC area to find a new 2011 STI? are the prices on the 2011 or (previous year models) much lower to try and make room for the 2012s?
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:40 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeVmO View Post
what dealership should i go to in the MD/VA/DC area to find a new 2011 STI? are the prices on the 2011 or (previous year models) much lower to try and make room for the 2012s?

There is a dude here in MAIC who is selling his 2011 STI (pearl white) sedan for $29,995. It's got 20k miles on it and he's planning to trade it in soon. He's selling it for basically what he'll get for trade in....not a bad deal IMO.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:46 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
I'll refer you to a point I made earlier. "We as enthusiasts are the exception, not the rule." Most people (90%) are interested in body configurations, horsepower, transmission, and color. That's it. It helps to know the most popular options off the top of your head, and what options aren't worth getting. But 90% of people don't get any deeper than that. In a year of selling BMW products only twice have I discussed the value of a twin-scroll turbo setup combined with infinitely variable valve timing and lift.

Also, people don't even drive on your lot if in their head it is not a "good car." It's not the salesperson's job to prove this. This is why companies like Jag/Land Rover and VW are still selling cars. Perception.

--Andy
Good point. When I upgrade to a BMW M3 (yeah right), I'll head your way. Thanks for the conversation....it's always good to see the other side of the coin.
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Old 10-24-2011, 10:53 AM   #30
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Iíve got one. My new Jeep continuously Leaks, fourth attempt to fix since 8th September. What are my chances of Chrysler/Dealership exchanging or buying back my lemon? Am I more likely to get a replacement or do I have an even chance of getting out of this POS and back into a Subaru? Be honest please.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:00 AM   #31
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Quote:
Is there some system of rotation to decide what saleman approaches a customer?
Does it mess up rotation or piss you off if you approach me and I tell you I'm "just looking"? Do you then go to the back of the line?
Depends on the showroom. Some go in a rotation depending on experience. We go in order of who came in first that day.

Quote:
Is it possible to negotiate a better price if I pay cash or am pre-approved for credit vs applying for credit?
No. The dealer actually prefers for you to finance. We either mark the rate up or receive a small payment ("flat") from the financing company to get you to finance with us. Either way it has nothing to do with the sale price. "I'm paying cash" is another thing you can say that lets us know you have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
what dealership should i go to in the MD/VA/DC area to find a new 2011 STI? are the prices on the 2011 or (previous year models) much lower to try and make room for the 2012s?
I don't work for a Subaru store any more, but there are plenty of recommendations for one particular dealer all over this forum. Do some research and it should be pretty clear.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filipinocracker View Post
Iíve got one. My new Jeep continuously Leaks, fourth attempt to fix since 8th September. What are my chances of Chrysler/Dealership exchanging or buying back my lemon? Am I more likely to get a replacement or do I have an even chance of getting out of this POS and back into a Subaru? Be honest please.
Things like these depend entirely on the brand's policies. High line car makers are more likely to buy back a car. Domestics... I have no idea. Just make as much noise as possible and keep going up the food chain. Call the customer service line for the brand. BE RESPECTFUL - don't cuss, just let them know the facts and always get the name and extension of who you talk to.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:18 AM   #33
Beyer Subaru
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Amen Brother! This should be a sticky! I agree whole heartedly with everything you have said. Keep it coming guys! I'll chime in from time to time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeVmO View Post
what dealership should i go to in the MD/VA/DC area to find a new 2011 STI? are the prices on the 2011 or (previous year models) much lower to try and make room for the 2012s?
Your best bet is to negotiate an order at this point. There are very few STi's left in VA. We've got a 4 Door Base STi in Dark Gray.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
It used to be illegal for sales departments to be open on Sundays. About 10 years ago the state made it a county issue. 4 counties in MD are currently open on Sundays, as well as most in VA.

Personally I like knowing I'll always have Sundays off. The extra time worked compared to any increase in units sold doesn't make it worth it.

--Andy
Also, if someone has not so spectacular credit, the business manager will probably need to make some calls to try and get that person approved. The manager is unable to do their job if the finacial institute is closed as most are on Sundays.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:16 PM   #35
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this is a great thread. here is an article from a reporter who worked as a salesman for a while to get some of the inside information. I found it years ago, but it was updated again in 2009:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...-for-2009.html
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:30 PM   #36
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What are typically the last months to buy the previous year model’s before they are gone. I’m sure each make and model is different but what month sticks out to you on average?
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filipinocracker View Post
What are typically the last months to buy the previous year modelís before they are gone. Iím sure each make and model is different but what month sticks out to you on average?
Why? It's a car. The average person will buy 6 in their life. They all depreciate. There's no real advantage to buying an older car than a newer one, if the difference is only one model year. The older car costs less but depreciates more.

Just focus on discount and the color you want. Stop being obsessed with saving an extra $500 because it was a "closeout" or the like.

I'm going to do what ever I can to make a deal any month, at any time of the month. 1/3 of my income comes from unit and CSI bonuses, not on the individual cars. It makes no difference if you come in on the 1st or the 31st, it's all just another chip on the board. That chip could be worth well into 4 figures. So shop when ever.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:36 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
this is a great thread. here is an article from a reporter who worked as a salesman for a while to get some of the inside information. I found it years ago, but it was updated again in 2009:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/co...-for-2009.html
Some of this is true. Some of it is not. A lot of it is "old school" tactics. I would estimate about 60% of the dealers today are considered "old school." The two companies I've worked for have been very "new wave" and you should take my writings as working for one of these companies. Old school sales tactics will lead you to the poorhouse so fast it's not even funny.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
Old school sales tactics will lead you to the poorhouse so fast it's not even funny.
are you saying the buyer or the dealership will end up in the poor house?
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
are you saying the buyer or the dealership will end up in the poor house?
Dealership mainly. I work for a publicly owned dealer group which makes it a point to acquire failing mis-managed franchises in potentially profitable markets and turn them around. It's amazing the horror stories I hear from our execs about how places used to be run, including the one I'm at now.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:58 PM   #41
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This is great information thanks! So lets say you work for a company that qualifies you for a supplier discount of some sort. I have purchased several vehicles this way.

Is this something the dealer and salespersons dislike? Why is the dealer sometimes able to get you a "better" price than the dealer invoice of the discount? Is there more than one invoice? Like the invoice you get to see, and the "real" invoice you dont?
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:58 PM   #42
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if you're going to be picky enough with a new car that you will have to order it through a dealership, what position do you have to negotiate a lower price? do you have to go earlier in the model year to get good deals on ordered cars? is it all the same since you can still shop around to other dealers? I plan on having to order my next car in order to get what I want on it, but I don't want to pay MSRP just to get the color I want with almost no options. When ordering a new car, I'd assume you'd negotiate out the whole price ahead of time, but is the dealership just going out on a limb that you'll actually buy what they order for you, or do they hold you to some deposit before ordering?
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeVmO View Post
what dealership should i go to in the MD/VA/DC area to find a new 2011 STI? are the prices on the 2011 or (previous year models) much lower to try and make room for the 2012s?
i personally had a great experience with annapolis subaru. they did everything they could to help me out and lowered the price of my 2011 WRX under retail even with the upgrades it had on there. not too mention they worked with me on the trade in of my crappy wrangler.. i also think i got lucky with a great saleman though. the man knew about subarus and had an answer for everything i asked him.

if you go to annapolis subaru ask for frank white. you wont regret it.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growling_boxer View Post
if you're going to be picky enough with a new car that you will have to order it through a dealership, what position do you have to negotiate a lower price? do you have to go earlier in the model year to get good deals on ordered cars? is it all the same since you can still shop around to other dealers? I plan on having to order my next car in order to get what I want on it, but I don't want to pay MSRP just to get the color I want with almost no options. When ordering a new car, I'd assume you'd negotiate out the whole price ahead of time, but is the dealership just going out on a limb that you'll actually buy what they order for you, or do they hold you to some deposit before ordering?
You are a customer and an order is a deal. You will negotiate like the car is right in front of you.
It's just supply and demand right now. On an order a dealer might go lower than a stock unit because it is a sale they never had.
The dealer will generally take a small good faith deposit that you are going to buy the car when it arrives.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:13 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Crashsector View Post
"I'm paying cash" is another thing you can say that lets us know you have no idea what you're talking about.
but, what if I am actually paying cash?
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Filipinocracker View Post
What are typically the last months to buy the previous year modelís before they are gone. Iím sure each make and model is different but what month sticks out to you on average?

I bought mine in September of 2009 and they were running the 0% on the 2009's while you had to pay 3% or 4% for the 2010. I opted for the 2009. There does come a point (at least I felt this way) that the dealership wants to get rid of the older models and make room for the newer models. I'm sure they arn't going to take a loss on the car, but I think they are more likely to work on the price. At least I got the impression they wouldn't really move on the price for the 2010's that were being shipped.

Of course, you'd only want to do this if saving a few hundred bucks is worth it for you.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
but, what if I am actually paying cash?
Paying cash is fine. I would say a majority of my customers pay cash. I think what Andy is trying to say is that when you try and use it as a negotiation tactic it does nothing for you. It makes you look foolish.

Cash is the same as credit is the same as financing is the same as a wheelbarrow full of nickels. All money is electronic now. So the transferral of funds is immediate.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by brbauer View Post
I bought mine in September of 2009 and they were running the 0% on the 2009's while you had to pay 3% or 4% for the 2010. I opted for the 2009. There does come a point (at least I felt this way) that the dealership wants to get rid of the older models and make room for the newer models. I'm sure they arn't going to take a loss on the car, but I think they are more likely to work on the price. At least I got the impression they wouldn't really move on the price for the 2010's that were being shipped.

Of course, you'd only want to do this if saving a few hundred bucks is worth it for you.
That's Subaru. Not the specific dealer. Subaru will always have better deals on the outgoing model year. But with Subaru the cars generally aren't around long enough for the customer to use what ever perk Subaru is offering.

Get the car that you want, instead of waiting for something you don't.
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Old 10-24-2011, 01:53 PM   #49
Crashsector
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Quote:
This is great information thanks! So lets say you work for a company that qualifies you for a supplier discount of some sort. I have purchased several vehicles this way.

Is this something the dealer and salespersons dislike? Why is the dealer sometimes able to get you a "better" price than the dealer invoice of the discount? Is there more than one invoice? Like the invoice you get to see, and the "real" invoice you dont?
I hate buying services. They charge the dealer a fee for every lead that is presented. They end up costing more money than they make. I'm more willing to match a buying service price without you going through the buying service to cut out the extra time and paperwork.

To your second point, there are incentives and rebates that manufacturers offer to bring the price down. Some of these are shown to the customer, some are not. This is something else you will just have to accept as not knowing about. Also, the dealer gets volume incentives so that if they sell X number of cars in a quarter the cost of each car gets reduced by an amount, retroactive and including cars already sold. That's now you see cars sold under invoice. Also, some manufacturers pad the invoice price, some don't. Mine don't.

Quote:
f you're going to be picky enough with a new car that you will have to order it through a dealership, what position do you have to negotiate a lower price? do you have to go earlier in the model year to get good deals on ordered cars? is it all the same since you can still shop around to other dealers? I plan on having to order my next car in order to get what I want on it, but I don't want to pay MSRP just to get the color I want with almost no options. When ordering a new car, I'd assume you'd negotiate out the whole price ahead of time, but is the dealership just going out on a limb that you'll actually buy what they order for you, or do they hold you to some deposit before ordering?
This is brand specific. You should be able to negotiate sale price, but any incentives/financing probably can't get locked in. Again, do your research, name a price, agree to it in writing, and wait for the car to come in. If the dealer won't do this, or the price changes when the car comes in, move on to another dealer.

Quote:
but, what if I am actually paying cash?
It's partially mine and completely my business manager's job to get you to finance in house. If it's really cash-cash (not a loan from another institution), it makes very little sense to actually pay cash for a car right now. Most manufacturers have 0.0-0.9% financing up to 36 months to try to convert cash buyers. Make your money work for you... don't pay cash for a depreciating asset. Everyone needs to lease but they just don't understand it.

--Andy
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:34 PM   #50
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So the buying service thing I understand. But what about manufacturer partner discounts? I work for a supplier that lets me qualify for discounts. It just seems like the dealer is sore about selling a desirable vehicle that could have made more on a regular sale.
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