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Old 12-26-2011, 06:10 PM   #251
Zach9734
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3.6R as in the 2012 Legacy and Outback.
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:59 AM   #252
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Well this sucks.


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Old 12-29-2011, 07:55 AM   #253
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what sucks?
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:52 AM   #254
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Toyota = Scion too. ROFL

Should be a Toyota BRZ, they're just using the niche sale factor to get attention. AWD is the shizzy =D
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:55 AM   #255
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not impressed at all. the engine is the best part, but it looks like a z. trunk looks like a legacy, exhaust and rear diffuser is the same as 08-09 sti.

no turbo and no awd = disappointment
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:06 AM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damopoulos View Post
not impressed at all. the engine is the best part, but it looks like a z. trunk looks like a legacy, exhaust and rear diffuser is the same as 08-09 sti.

no turbo and no awd = disappointment
Go get a GC8/GM6 Impreza, drop in a turbo engine, and save a lot of money. You missed the point of this car. Or succeeded at trolling.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:31 AM   #257
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I guess everyone has their own expectations as to what this car should look like, etc. Thing is, looking at the design and specs, I see no reason why this won't succeed as a niche car like the Miata. I personally think both the Scion and Subaru versions look very good. I'd rather see 2 versions of this vehicle on the road then seeing any of the garbage coming out from GM. I love the look of it. And I'd have to say this is the nicest car Toyota has come out with in a LOOOOONG time.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:43 AM   #258
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Now that is an accurate statement. Can you imagine how well this car will to in events with mild suspention modification. Someone is going to turn this car into a track monster.
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:41 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06WRXTRacer View Post
Well this sucks.


What do you expect? The car was a 5 year partnership between Toyota and Subaru. Toyota did the concept, aero, drive line, fuel injection design and Subaru did the NA boxer, power train design. A $40-50K car can be sold to us for $20-25K with a choice between a Subaru or Toyota/Scion badge. Cost reduction is also done by reusing a lot of STI brake calipers and rotors and Toyota Prius tires


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokin' Joe View Post
Toyota = Scion too. ROFL

Should be a Toyota BRZ, they're just using the niche sale factor to get attention. AWD is the shizzy =D
Should be a FT86 or GT86. As that is what the original intent of this car was. To build and improve upon the Toyota S800, 2000GT and Corolla GTS AE86. The car was benchmarked against the Cayman S in terms of handling and CG location, and weight distribution. The car was called many things and the concept was the Toyota FT86 as shown in the Gran Turismo 5 video game. It is also being sold in Japan as the GT86 under Toyota.

Subaru BRZ stands for Boxer engine, Rear-wheel drive and Zenith while Toyota FRS stands for Front Engine Rear wheel drive Sport. So no.. it shouldn't be called a Toyota BRZ because both names really mean about the same thing. Neither name came before the other. Both names came after Project 086A (obviously after Toyota Corolla AE86) and engineering code name AS1 for the chassis code. Toyota and Subaru referred to the concept car as FT86 in auto shows. This car was created from a drifting heritage, not AWD. Subaru was reluctant to do design work for this car due to the fact that it conflicts with everything they have worked for up till now.

Toyota lead the designs in aerodynamics, concept, fuel injection, interior design. I would agree that Subaru really did most of the engineering work from the high compression NA boxer engine to the suspension and driveline with double wishbone rears. However, Subaru only participated in this car due to Toyota's insisting on creating this RWD coupe as they do own 17% of Subaru. The BRZ and FT86 aren't cousins at all. They are identical twins. Everything is the same from ground up and even the interior is just a color palette change. The only differences is a difference choice of seat material (higher end for Subaru), slight difference in aero kit, and spring stiffness. While these cars will be competing with each other and the Hyundai Genesis Coupe, I believe the market will be split pretty evenly. The lower priced FRS will attract a much younger demographic and ricers, while the BRZ will strengthen the Subaru line up by a whole lot for the older guys. Hyundai would have trouble battling two fronts as this car has better handling and lighter weight, while the Genesis has been constantly regarded as being 300-400 lbs over weight. Exterior aesthetics being subjective.

Here I think is the best Subaru BRZ movie if not the best FT86 video:

Last edited by AeroWRX; 12-30-2011 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:28 PM   #260
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video is awesome....i'm hoping for a 2013 brz sti convertible.

Doest the brz have a Lexus is350 six speed? And I didn't see brembos on that car...
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:11 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by maxpowr View Post
video is awesome....i'm hoping for a 2013 brz sti convertible.

Doest the brz have a Lexus is350 six speed? And I didn't see brembos on that car...
TRD said a convertible is pretty much out of the question as they designed this car with specific dynamics and structural integrity. Scion can force one, but it would only be out of pure aesthetics and would require a major rework from both Subaru and Toyota.

Gearbox and drive train should be all from Subaru. Brembos are probably in the Premium and Limited edition Subaru versions but not in the Toyota(Scion) FRS and base models.

Toyota FRS Test Drive Japan


Last edited by AeroWRX; 12-31-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:04 PM   #262
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Interesting concept, yet I believe this will not yield high sales. The only niche this car will appeal to is people in the market for miata's, s2k's or cars of the like. Even then, although maybe biased with my prior Honda background, I would take the higher revving, higher horsepower yielding s2k over the "BRZ."

I believe that Subaru and Toyota, may have missed the mark on this car as the loyal Subaru buyers in the sports car market. (Those whom have purchased wrx/ sti models) Will consider this car a underpowered waste of time. Heck, if I wanted a RWD car with ~200hp I would get myself an s13 and do a sr20 swap or boost the KA, or a 370z.

Mini coopers and Miata's handle like they are on rails but the majority of this community would not think about purchasing them. The Advanced AWD system coupled with the bliss of having F/I are what lure many into buying a wrx/sti.

As someone stated prior, this car will most likely have similar success as the rx-8. Meaning that, it almost lost its, "Subaru Mojo." The attractiveness of the Subaru brand has been smudged by Toyota counterparts. The rx-7 was an very attractive, high performance vehicle and when the rx-8 came out, many were disappointed with the castrated rx-8 that essentially replaced the beloved rx-7.

To each his own car is sharp and probably handles well, but I will never buy one. Hopefully an "STI" model comes out to bump its horsepower and after-market support to lure in additional buyers.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:54 PM   #263
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I like it
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Old 12-31-2011, 10:15 PM   #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpanda87 View Post
Interesting concept, yet I believe this will not yield high sales. The only niche this car will appeal to is people in the market for miata's, s2k's or cars of the like. Even then, although maybe biased with my prior Honda background, I would take the higher revving, higher horsepower yielding s2k over the "BRZ."

I believe that Subaru and Toyota, may have missed the mark on this car as the loyal Subaru buyers in the sports car market. (Those whom have purchased wrx/ sti models) Will consider this car a underpowered waste of time. Heck, if I wanted a RWD car with ~200hp I would get myself an s13 and do a sr20 swap or boost the KA, or a 370z.

Mini coopers and Miata's handle like they are on rails but the majority of this community would not think about purchasing them. The Advanced AWD system coupled with the bliss of having F/I are what lure many into buying a wrx/sti.

As someone stated prior, this car will most likely have similar success as the rx-8. Meaning that, it almost lost its, "Subaru Mojo." The attractiveness of the Subaru brand has been smudged by Toyota counterparts. The rx-7 was an very attractive, high performance vehicle and when the rx-8 came out, many were disappointed with the castrated rx-8 that essentially replaced the beloved rx-7.

To each his own car is sharp and probably handles well, but I will never buy one. Hopefully an "STI" model comes out to bump its horsepower and after-market support to lure in additional buyers.
The S2000 isn't manufactured anymore. The 370z is 2x the price. Top Gear says this car is better than a Miata. And yes I agree ppl who are only into AWD+FI+4 spacious seats won't be into this car.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/s...iew-2011-12-03

It has a lower CG than the Ferrari 458, better handling than a 370z, and as fun to drive as a Renault Sport Clio. With Scion's version sitting at a ~$22,000 price tag, I think it will be a very desired car despite what the majority of Subie owners think. The AWD+FI crowd is a minority in automotive enthusiasts. I believe alot of Subaru owners are writing this car off based off of emotional logic. Much like the same feelings Subaru didn't want to participate in this project in the beginning. But they created a b|tching car at the end!

Subaru BRZ GT300 Version

Last edited by AeroWRX; 12-31-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:25 PM   #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpanda87 View Post
Interesting concept, yet I believe this will not yield high sales. The only niche this car will appeal to is people in the market for miata's, s2k's or cars of the like. Even then, although maybe biased with my prior Honda background, I would take the higher revving, higher horsepower yielding s2k over the "BRZ."

I believe that Subaru and Toyota, may have missed the mark on this car as the loyal Subaru buyers in the sports car market. (Those whom have purchased wrx/ sti models) Will consider this car a underpowered waste of time. Heck, if I wanted a RWD car with ~200hp I would get myself an s13 and do a sr20 swap or boost the KA, or a 370z.

Mini coopers and Miata's handle like they are on rails but the majority of this community would not think about purchasing them. The Advanced AWD system coupled with the bliss of having F/I are what lure many into buying a wrx/sti.

As someone stated prior, this car will most likely have similar success as the rx-8. Meaning that, it almost lost its, "Subaru Mojo." The attractiveness of the Subaru brand has been smudged by Toyota counterparts. The rx-7 was an very attractive, high performance vehicle and when the rx-8 came out, many were disappointed with the castrated rx-8 that essentially replaced the beloved rx-7.

To each his own car is sharp and probably handles well, but I will never buy one. Hopefully an "STI" model comes out to bump its horsepower and after-market support to lure in additional buyers.
I have a feeling this car *could* be a sign of things to come from SOA in the future (i.e. more non awd vehicles and possibly less turbo vehicles). It's just a guess, but they're going to have to do something to help meet 2016 CAFE standards. Call it a smudge on Subaru's attractiveness if you want. The truth is the overwhelming vast majority of the public could care less, only the fanboys are upset.

Like other Subaru sports cars, this car will probably not yield high numbers, at least on the Subaru side (price difference could be a factor). That's if you can even call the wrx/sti a sports car. Sure they're sporty and perform great, but they're basically suped up econoboxes. The Subyota is actually a sports car from the ground up. Anyway, my guess is they'll be available on a limited bases, at least at first. Considering all the interest, hype, and good praise I'm guessing they'll have a hard time keeping them on the lot until it's been out for a while.

The only fair comparison to this car that is still in production is the rx8 and genesis imo. I have a feeling the Subyota will perform as good, if not better than the rx8 even though the power output is less, and the engine should be more reliable. One also doesn't have to deal with poor fuel economy or have to add oil regularly as the rx8 does. As for the miata and s2000 (which is no longer in production), they're both roadsters while the subyota is a hard top. A lot people don't want roadsters. Also, most people aren't going to consider buying an older car and doing an engine swap because it's a hassle.

Comparing this car to a current wrx or STI is pointless. I agree, most people that own these models aren't going to be interested in the subyota for many reasons - there are a lot of fanboys that own these cars, and many enthusiasts feel they need to move to something that's more expensive, faster, etc. for whatever reason. My guess is most people interested in the subyota won't be cross-shopping the wrx or STI.

FWIW I purchased an '06 STI brand new and owned it 4 years. I loved that car and it's easily the best car I've owned. I now have a craptastic '86 corolla gts (ae86) and couldn't be happier. I don't think the subyota is a waste of time; I actually want one. Then again, I don't feel that awd is superior, or that massive power output and/or a turbo is a necessity to have a fun car.

The bottom line is you can't always get what you want. Sometimes I feel like people would like less interesting cars to choose from vs. more.
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Old 01-01-2012, 05:35 PM   #266
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whoops, double post

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #267
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Lets please not compare anything by Toyota or Subaru to Nissan's. This car is nearly a half ton lighter than a 370 and the 240 has the weight distro of a Nissan pickup...same engine too lol. Comparing brand new cars to hypothetical swaps is apples v oranges. A Gen III small block can be swaped into an FC rx7 for cheap and own everything, but it still isn't a new car.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:32 AM   #268
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I think it's BEAST! Im not worried about stock specs and hp's.. Aftermarket parts will be available in bunches
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Old 01-03-2012, 11:01 AM   #269
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I think it's BEAST! Im not worried about stock specs and hp's.. Aftermarket parts will be available in bunches
They already have a STi concept but the base car is very peppy and stout
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:12 AM   #270
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It sort of looks like a Genesis.

With 3 pairs of balls, 4 cocks with hands, and triple shots of jack daniels in said hands.
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #271
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They already have a STi concept but the base car is very peppy and stout
Yeah, but I doubt they will make the STi version.

Forrester STi
Legacy STi
Outback STi

wait....those had concepts too....
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #272
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Old 01-06-2012, 02:00 PM   #273
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Yeah, but I doubt they will make the STi version.

Forrester STi
Legacy STi
Outback STi

wait....those had concepts too....

They made the Legacy Spec.B which is close enough and no one cares about a Fozzy or OB STi no hate

However a coupe in STi trim to a crowd of devoted Scooby buyers is a market segment they just might pay attention to, much like the STi to the WRX folks
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:14 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by GEE-OTTO View Post
They made the Legacy Spec.B which is close enough and no one cares about a Fozzy or OB STi no hate

However a coupe in STi trim to a crowd of devoted Scooby buyers is a market segment they just might pay attention to, much like the STi to the WRX folks
According to Top Gear, the BRZ STI won't have a turbo. It will aim for a huge 100kg weight reduction and possible upgrade to valve springs to increase the rev limit to 9000 RPM. Weight reduction will come into alot of parts replaced with carbon fiber like a carbon fiber roof panel, aluminum bonnet, and reduction of seats to 2 as stated in Evo magazine issue 166

Non turbo for life. High rev'ing and low weight

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Old 01-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #275
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Turbo is not necessary. A decent wt/hp ratio is . Under 10-1. Wait a tic. That is a lot to expect for 22k. 11-1 ?
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