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Old 02-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #1
Deslock
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Default Power Torque Curve, CAN Bus

Havene't seen this posted yet...

ft86club is reporting more details about the previously rumored CAN Bus (which sounds too good to be true from OEM): http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3603

And the power torque curve is supposedly on the JDM BRZ site (though I haven't seen where the source image came from myself):
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3583

The original (note torque units should be N*m, not kg*m):



Converted to English units:

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Old 02-07-2012, 08:44 AM   #2
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I assume this was measured at the Crank?
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:23 AM   #3
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:27 PM   #4
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what's up with that torque drop at 4k rpm?
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:19 PM   #5
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^I think its the transition from DI to port injection.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:24 PM   #6
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^Did you mean port to direct injection? It looks a Honda power band
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Old 02-08-2012, 12:50 PM   #7
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Instead of "V-TEC!!!" we can scream "DEE-EYE!!!"
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Old 02-08-2012, 04:19 PM   #8
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Lovely almost Flat from 3-7k RPMs.
This is gonna be fun
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:22 AM   #9
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that torque curve is gonna feel:

slow slow, fast, slow again(wtf), fast, fast, it's over?

that torque curve drop just looks NASTY!
I hope some tunning fixes that crap, this car can't afford
to lose any more torque.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:05 AM   #10
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Wheel torque vs speed, based on BRZ JDM website and specifications




Last edited by Deslock; 02-11-2012 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:42 PM   #11
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Here's a rough estimate for comparing acceleration of the BRZ and WRX. As expected, once the WRX hits boost the BRZ never matches it. Still, I was a little surprised to see that:
  • The BRZ in 6th gear has more pull than the WRX in 5th until 70 MPH.
  • The BRZ has more pull than the WRX when both are in 5th.
  • The BRZ has more pull than the WRX when both are in 4th until 55 MPH.
This doesn't account for traction and of course it doesn't take much to increase the WRX's output. Even stock, it'll be 1.2-1.5 sec faster just to 60 MPH.


Last edited by Deslock; 02-13-2012 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 11:27 PM   #12
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The dip has been one of the biggest things all the reviewers seem to say 'wtf' to. They have all said it's entirely noticeable. Oh well...guess it just means keep the revs above 4200 which shouldn't be that hard on a track.
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:36 AM   #13
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GTI


Last edited by Deslock; 02-13-2012 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kornykidd0 View Post
The dip has been one of the biggest things all the reviewers seem to say 'wtf' to. They have all said it's entirely noticeable. Oh well...guess it just means keep the revs above 4200 which shouldn't be that hard on a track.
I bet the dip is going to be one of the things addressed by the aftermarket (tuning) within the first year and addressed by Subaru & Toyota within a year or two.


Desklock.. loving the graphs. What WRX is being used in post #11?
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Desklock.. loving the graphs. What WRX is being used in post #11?
Glad others are enjoying them. They were fun to work out actually.

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/engine...dyno-pull.html
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:48 AM   #16
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Any chance you could do the same with a 02-05 WRX?
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:10 PM   #17
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The dynos I found for the stock 2.0L WRX are pretty weak... I based this on the strongest one in this thread, and it still looks slower than it should. If you find a better stock dyno, post a link and I'll redo the plot.

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Old 02-14-2012, 06:14 PM   #18
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170whp is about right for a WRX with a TD04. It might be very slightly low.. but not much. I hope this brings things into perspective for those saying it doesn't have enough power to have fun with.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deslock View Post

The BRZ in 6th gear has more pull than the WRX in 5th until 70 MPH.
The BRZ has more pull than the WRX when both are in 5th.
The BRZ has more pull than the WRX when both are in 4th until 55 MPH.
Completely pointless statistics. Comparing WOT pull speeds in completely wrong gears. Let's be real; the WRX stomps the BRZ. Haters gonna hate, it's a bad buy for the money. The WRX is more everything.
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
170whp is about right for a WRX with a TD04. It might be very slightly low.. but not much. I hope this brings things into perspective for those saying it doesn't have enough power to have fun with.
I ran a 14.6 in the quarter mile with my 2002 WRX wagon without any engine mods (with my bike roof rack on the car!)

One of the guys there had a sedan that ran a 14.2 if memory serves.

I don't see the BRZ doing better than that, so I think the accelerate plot favors it too much.

I took a look at the BRZ dyno screencaps mentioned above, and the scale is difficult figure out, but I'm guessing the real-world BRZ curve won't be quite as good as the acceleration plots indicate, at least down low. But even the worst case interpretation of that dyno has it being faster than the 2.0L WRX (except for the WRX's mid-range boost).

Another mystery is top speed. Several sources have said ~136-140 MPH drag limited, and in GT5 it tops out at 137 MPH. But from the calculations, it ought to be able to go almost 150 MPH. Not that it matters... I'll never drive it anywhere near those speeds, even if it's not governed. My concern is only that it casts doubt on the rest of the numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airwg2189 View Post
Completely pointless statistics. Comparing WOT pull speeds in completely wrong gears. Let's be real; the WRX stomps the BRZ. Haters gonna hate, it's a bad buy for the money. The WRX is more everything.
I agree with you regarding being in the wrong gear... compared to the WRX, the BRZ is a high-revver and downshifting will be essential when trying to maximize accelerating.

Beyond that, your post is pointless and trollish. Welcome to my ignore list.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deslock
I ran a 14.6 in the quarter mile with my 2002 WRX wagon without any engine mods (with my bike roof rack on the car!)

One of the guys there had a sedan that ran a 14.2 if memory serves.

I don't see the BRZ doing better than that, so I think the accelerate plot favors it too much.
The WRX has a fantastic launch and a low 1/4mi thanks to the AWD... it also has poor trap speeds.

As for the comparison, I don't see why it's so hard to believe that the lighter 170whp car could be as fast if not faster.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:01 AM   #22
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Acceleration in a straight line is not a big concern for me.

The BRZ was built as a low slung sports car that is easily tossable on a road course. The WRX was built for all weather performance driving (Rally).

These cars were built with two completely different philosophy's in mind, so it's pointless to compare the two.
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Old 02-15-2012, 12:53 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RALLYT-WRX View Post
Acceleration in a straight line is not a big concern for me.

The BRZ was built as a low slung sports car that is easily tossable on a road course. The WRX was built for all weather performance driving (Rally).

These cars were built with two completely different philosophy's in mind, so it's pointless to compare the two.
Acceleration isn't my priority either, and I agree the cars have different foci.

And to clarify, no one should draw conclusions from any of this... I've been posting purely because it's fun to speculate and compare.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The WRX has a fantastic launch and a low 1/4mi thanks to the AWD... it also has poor trap speeds.

As for the comparison, I don't see why it's so hard to believe that the lighter 170whp car could be as fast if not faster.
My previous post was poorly worded; it's not that I don't think the BRZ will be faster than the 2.0L WRX... I expect the BRZ to have better top-end, and if launched abusively might even almost match it in the 1/4 mile. I'm just surprised how much of an advantage that plot gave the BRZ.

I think part of the problem is that published power curves often show more low-end than dynos. So I plotted again, but this time vs the BRZ dyno screencap. Because the scale of the dyno screencap is unknown, and the curve doesn't quite match the published dyno, some guesswork is needed. Here's what a couple users speculated at ft86club:



Because it has significantly more midrange output than the published curve, I'm dismissing it as unrealistic.

Next up are plots using a more conservative estimate of the screencap scale. It's also questionable because some runs appear to go way past 7500 RPM (but I didn't use them):



This is more like what I've been expecting all along, at least in the mid and high RPM range. This as probably the worst case scenario, and I won't be surprised if it's in-between this and the other plots.

Again, all of this is speculative.

Here are plots with the conservative dyno scale vs the current GTI and WRX:



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Old 02-21-2012, 01:34 PM   #24
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It actually looks like the standard Subaru drop in their tunes. I've seen it in a lot of their tunes from the factory. Just hope Cobb comes out with an AccessPort soon.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:19 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The WRX has a fantastic launch and a low 1/4mi thanks to the AWD... it also has poor trap speeds.

As for the comparison, I don't see why it's so hard to believe that the lighter 170whp car could be as fast if not faster.
Until and unless you drive it up here at 10,000 ft elevation, then the N/A BRZ will really suffer compared to the WRX.
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