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Old 09-28-2011, 02:44 PM   #1176
Monkey_Boy
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^^^ That picture's pretty old ^^^
It looks good though. I wouldn't complain if it ended up looking like that.
Yeah, new story; old pic. But it looks a lot better than that bright yellow Citroen-looking thing that was put out with the original announcement of the Impreza/WRX separation.

Anyone know where this pic is from?
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Old 09-28-2011, 03:36 PM   #1177
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SOA,

I have owned a '11 STI for almost a year now. The only suggestion I have thus far would be on the steering. It felt great when I first purchsed the car but has quickly become just slightly sloppy. If you could tighten that up in future models it would be much appreciatted as this is my 3rd Subaru in 5 years and definitely not my last.

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Old 09-29-2011, 10:58 AM   #1178
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Hello SOA,

First off I am happy with my 2009 WRX and will likely buy Subaru again in the future. Although I have not had any problems with the AWD, I do believe the system is a bit archaic, even if the "symmetrical AWD" marketing is well established.

There is a simple solution. Add another mode to the VDC system. The VDC is excellent at controlling wheelspin and power transfer. However currently that action is coupled to engine power reduction , which limits the usefulness of the VDC when starting, for example in deep snow, in fact it will almost stall the car before you can get moving. Disabling VDC fixes this issue, but only relies on the LSD action of the viscous center diff, which is not always enough to get moving.

I propose a third "traction" mode (like the STI model has) where the VDC is used to provide limited-slip action without power-reduction. In this way the driver can control power while the VDC controls traction. The mode could be speed limited to below 15mph or so, to protect the brakes from overheating. I would imagine such a feature could be added at minimal cost to all Subaru models with VDC, and would firmly bolster the US Subaru image of superior AWD and "never getting stuck", which is how most customers judge AWD systems.

Last edited by Power6; 09-29-2011 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:27 AM   #1179
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I seen the pictures from japanese magazine ... on this section ... fullly built STI white color looks like mazda but i couldn't find it ... anyway seen it ? PM please .. i am serious ... it was sti ... white color ... great looking ...not the BIMBO next apartement...
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:52 AM   #1180
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I think this might be my first N&R post.

I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but I'd like to see a 2012 Impreza hatchback (or sedan), with the OE accessory front lip and grille, STI tuned suspension, 6 speed manual, with the BRZ FA20 200hp engine. Call it the RS. I'd buy that over a new WRX.
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Old 12-10-2011, 09:55 PM   #1181
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I'm sure this has been hashed out so many times, but when the heck is SOA bringing the Forester 2.0d to the States? I would buy one right now, but according to an email response I got from them, "the market for them just isn't there." Ok, yes it is. Whoever says it isn't is playing it too safe. How about let's do some market research on the sales of VW TDI equipped Golfs, Passats, and Jettas. I'd be willing to bet my entire yearly salary that if SOA offered their diesel in every model (Impreza, Outback, Forester, and Tribeca), they'd sell out faster than Pitbull. Just sayin'...

By the way, if anyone knows of any dealership that has them, even in Canada or Mexico, let me know. PM me folks. I want one.
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Old 12-19-2011, 04:59 PM   #1182
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I'd like to see a turbo charged H6 come in a "special" STi package. I bet Subie could push some good numbers with that combo.
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:44 PM   #1183
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I'd like to see a turbo charged H6 come in a "special" STi package. I bet Subie could push some good numbers with that combo.
Would you be willing to pay $40/$45k-Plus for it?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:26 AM   #1184
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Would you be willing to pay $40/$45k-Plus for it?
For the right HP numbers and right platform yes.

375hp luxury Legacy. mmmmm
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:48 PM   #1185
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For the right HP numbers and right platform yes.

375hp luxury Legacy. mmmmm
I do kind of feel like Subaru should cater to the vehicle class size more instead of trying not to take away from the Impreza WRX STI. If people want STI performance from a Legacy-size vehicle, that should be fine. It seems as though they've constantly stopped just short of amazing so as not to eat up the Impreza WRX STI sales in the past.

Instead of GT/XT trims I think everything should have STI trims.

2013/2014 Legacy STI (instead of GT)
2013/2014 Forester STI (instead of XT)
2013/2014 WRX STI (since Impreza has been dropped)

Personally I'd love the Tribeca to have an STI trim before it bows out.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:15 PM   #1186
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If Subaru had a gearbox capable... I would love to see a 300+hp H6 version of the Legacy and the Tribeca, and Forester... although perhaps turbo 4 for the Forester....

The H6 would be smoother, have more predictable response, and torquier at lower RPMs, before a turbo 4 would spool up, and allow a lower cruising RPM, and better cruising gas mileage.

Brembos, Bilsteins, SI-Drive calibration, VTD/DCCD calibration, maybe even active suspension damper adjustments, and either a manual gearbox, or paddle-shifters on all of them. I would love to see a PDK-style clutch-based automated gearbox on the upper end cars... to appeal to people who don't want three pedals, but with just as much performance and direct connection to the road, as a car that does have 3 pedals. Torque converters sap performance away when they aren't locked up, and generally hydraulic-shifting isn't as quick as electro-mechanical.

And I wouldn't mind if the next WRX/STI body were a 3-door coupe, and 5-door sedan (think smaller, sporty version of Audi A7, sleeker than Impreza 5-door/XV), with either 4 side doors, or two longer side doors.

...to separate it from Impreza's 4-door sedan, and 5-door hatch.
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:53 AM   #1187
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SOA,

First off, thank you for continuing to supply the USA with, IMO, some of the greatest vehicles on the road. However, I beleive that the following should be brought to the USA in order to bolster the brand and provide for your customers:

1. The Forester STI (6spd Manual) (you bring this to the states, I will buy it! Or at least allow me to special order one...)

2. Diesel models for the entire model year line up, or the availability to order a car with the option of either gas or diesel drivetrain.

3. STI should be a trim option for all models that the customer can special order from the factory.

By allowing the customer options to order a trim line or specific engine and transmission that Subaru already produces, you cater to the wants or needs of your customer. This provides the customer the satisfaction of purchasing exactly what they want.

I am a diehard fan of Subaru's and have owned three, and I am starting to shop around for my fourth. But I am patiently waiting to see if the Forester STI will ever grace these shores (and then my garage!)...

or I may have to find a used one and a used STI and swap everything like PIA did...
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:14 PM   #1188
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Mostly agree with Raszaron's sentiments above.

But I have another idea. Since BRZ is probably going to preclude an Impreza or WRX/STI AWD coupe... I have an alternative that won't step on BRZ's toes.

A Forester-based successor to the Brat, but updated.

Take Forester chassis... lengthen front doors, and eliminate rear doors, and the roof aft of the front seats. Rake the B-pillar forward similarly to the Brat, with a lower roof height than Forester over the front seats. Cargo won't be contained under a roof, so might as well lower the roof to reduce frontal area, and make the vehicle look sportier, longer, and lower, visually. Make the two side doors more like coupe length, for some inside stowage behind the front seats, without going to a full "extended cab".

Make the aft section of the body as a cargo bed, with re-enforced chassis rails underneath. Composite bed lining is fine to avoid rust, and weight, as long as it is robust. Bed side compartments somewhat like RamBox is fine, too. Heck, put composite aft-facing seats back there, to get around the chicken tax again, like the Baja had to. Make them unbolt easily, or detach from lugs in the floor, like minivan seats.

Give it a compound tail gate, like the Ridgeline, and a mid-gate/Switchback inner bed bulkhead like Baja, into the interior. Make it possible to mount a full-size spare tire under the bed liner as Forester does and Honda Ridgeline does, or along the inside of the bed rail, or to the exterior of the tailgate, owner's choice, depending on cargo configuration. People criticize Ridgeline for only having the spare tire under the bed liner, which necessitates unloading cargo to gain access, if there is cargo in the bed. Versatility in mounting the spare or multiple spares helps that.

In addition to the hard-roof version with the switchback bulkhead... I suggest another alternative... a roll-back soft-top. Basically similar, but with a collapsing, or fully removable cloth/vinyl top from the windshield header, cov over a brace between the tops of the B-pillar as rigidity and roll-over protection. Rolling back or removing the top panel, lowering the rear and side windows would open up four sides of the interior. Jeep wrangler seems to do well as a soft-top.

Use the FA25 engine with Legacy GT's 6MT as the base drivetrain. Auto or CVT option... whatever.

Engine package 1: EJ25 Turbo, or replacement FA/FB turbo option when it's ready. Backed by WRX STI 6MT, with locking DCCD feature for on & off road use, front and rear torsen LSDs. Applied to both 6MT and robust-upgraded 5EAT option as well.

Engine Package 2: Same drivetrain, except with a re-tuned version of the EZ36 6-cylinder boxer as the power source.

Engine Package 3: Boxer Turbo Diesel drivetrain from Forester in other markets.

5x114.3 hubs and bearings, with Tribeca-spec brakes and re-optimized Forester suspension as standard. Could be applied to whole Forester line.

Suspension upgrade package: STI Brembo brakes and bilstein inverted long-travel dampers with variable damping rate as optional upgrades. Normal, sport (stiffer), and off-road (relaxed damping rate) settings. Maybe with un-locking sway bars in the off-road mode.

Small airbags as variable ride height helper springs would be great, but maybe a bit much for most people. Similar in theory to some sports cars that have lifters to raise them above driveway approaches or speed bumps, but instead used to lift from a moderate ride height starting point. Starting point could be slightly lower than stock forester, but slightly higher than WRX STI, with fully collapsed airbags. Partially inflated airbags would gain most of the additional ground clearance, and reduce the effective spring rate for off-road... fully inflated would give maximum ride height, and re-firm the spring rate. Good diffs throughout, variable damping rates, dis-engaging anti-roll bars, and variable ride height would probably make it one of the best cross-terrain performance vehicles on the market, to be calibrated for firm on-road performance and stability, or configured for good suspension articulation for off-road. Not a rock crawler, but better than most CUVs off road... and much sportier on pavement than the likes of stiff-legged solid axle Jeep Wrangler.

It is a completely different prospect than a sport coupe, but with all the sporting equipment selected on the turbo + 6MT + Brembo/Bilstein variant, and a hard shell bed cover, it would still pass as a 2-door STI, that could scream on the tarmac, and then go off the pavement, too.

Plus, it could haul a little something if needed, and with re-enforced chassis rails under the bed, a towing receiver could allow some towing capability, probably at least as much as Tribeca is capable of, with plenty of power, big brakes, and robust hubs and bearings, and strong enough aft chassis structure. Baja couldn't tow on a trailer what it's small bed wouldn't handle. A small bed is fine, if a utility trailer is a possible alternative.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-17-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 02-17-2012, 10:52 PM   #1189
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Mostly agree with Raszaron's sentiments above.Small airbags as variable ride height helper springs would be great, but maybe a bit much for most people. Similar in theory to some sports cars that have lifters to raise them above driveway approaches or speed bumps, but instead used to lift from a moderate ride height starting point. Starting point could be slightly lower than stock forester, but slightly higher than WRX STI, with fully collapsed airbags. Partially inflated airbags would gain most of the additional ground clearance, and reduce the effective spring rate for off-road... fully inflated would give maximum ride height, and re-firm the spring rate. Good diffs throughout, variable damping rates, dis-engaging anti-roll bars, and variable ride height would probably make it one of the best cross-terrain performance vehicles on the market, to be calibrated for firm on-road performance and stability, or configured for good suspension articulation for off-road. Not a rock crawler, but better than most CUVs off road... and much sportier on pavement than the likes of stiff-legged solid axle Jeep Wrangler.
Subaru used these air bladders for adjustable-height suspensions in some early '90s Legacy wagons.

(Gotta be careful about buying 'em in a used Subie, though, as they tend to develop leaks over time, and ya can't really get those parts anymore.)
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Old 02-17-2012, 11:55 PM   #1190
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Good to know.

I had a couple of further ideas.

rear seats to avoid chicken tax... I like the idea of lugs to make them removable like a 3rd row 2-seat bench. But then I thought about front-facing them unlike the original BRAT, and offering an optional sealing cap cover, like a Blazer or Bronco used to have, and the ability to fully remove the mid-gate and it's window from the vehicle, like removing a standard pick-up's tailgate.

This is not my photoshop, but has been rolling around in my head since I saw it a while back.

Start with something in this idiom, but longer in length. pretty much the same length as a 5-door standard Forester, and a lower roof.

And sporty, like this PIA STI-swapped Forester XT.


The cap could be full-length, with a slight rake on the back window, sort of like a 90s' 2-door Blazer hard top.


or it could be exchanged for a cap with a much shallower rake, and larger rear window, making the vehicle look more like a fastback coupe.


Somewhat like the exchangeable pieces on a Nissan NX... or the ability to leave them off. But on a small truck scale, with the ability to also use it that way.


To make it a little sportier yet, a tapered tail would be kind of nice, sort of like the back of a step-side bed, but no step, and just aft of the rear wheel wells externally. just enough to make the back of the vehicle look less bulky and rectangular, but still wide enough that the tailgate opening would be directly inline with the inside width of the wheel wells, making the inner bed sides flat, and the bed rectangular. Perhaps with storage within the fenders, especially forward of the rear wheels. Jack, air compressor, general storage, whatever. not exactly like this... but something to give a sleeker, less boxy appearance.


1: mini pick up truck with mid-gate in place.
2: mini truck with cloth roof removed, mid-gate folded or removed, for open air, like a roll-frame equipped convertible or jeep.
3: enclosed mini truck with hard tonneau cover over the bed.
4: enclosed mini SUV with full length cap, with or without rear seats, with or without mid gate in place.
5: enclosed coupe with fastback cap, with or without rear seats, with or without mid gate.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-18-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 02-18-2012, 06:06 PM   #1191
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I want a new Justy type car. A sub-15k hatch with an inline three banger. Awd of course.
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Old 02-18-2012, 10:07 PM   #1192
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Why on earth would Subaru produce an inline 3?
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Old 02-19-2012, 12:50 AM   #1193
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I'm sick of the fact that Subaru really hasn't changed the vehicle much over the last 8 years other than the exterior and they have increased the price of the vehicle $6000. I'm sorry SOA, but the changes you've made haven't warranted the increase in price. It's essentially the same car. I would love a three door, 5 door, or just keep the sedan. Any would be fine. There needs to be an increased HP, handling, push button start, moonroof and better front seats. These should be standard features on a $35,000 anyway. I don't really care about the audio system because I'll probably take it out anyway. Here's the part that sucks though, now that they are going to change the vehicle, add some of these things and increase power they are going to increase the price again. Guess what SOA, at some point the vehicle will not be worth what you want to charge and people will start leaving and buying something else. The new Hyundai Genesis Coupe is a perfect example of this. 348 HP, Leather Seats, Heated Seats, Push Button Start, Moonroof, Navigation all for $33,500. So where does the extra $6000 come from SOA? It's not the AWD system that's for sure. It's like they saw a chance to make big money quick and started gouging people. FAIL FOR SOA!!!!!

Last edited by fourmicah; 02-19-2012 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:15 AM   #1194
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I'm sick of the fact that Subaru really hasn't changed the vehicle much over the last 8 years other than the exterior and they have increased the price of the vehicle $6000. I'm sorry SOA, but the changes you've made haven't warranted the increase in price. It's essentially the same car. I would love a three door, 5 door, or just keep the sedan. Any would be fine. There needs to be an increased HP, handling, push button start, moonroof and better front seats. These should be standard features on a $35,000 anyway. I don't really care about the audio system because I'll probably take it out anyway. Here's the part that sucks though, now that they are going to change the vehicle, add some of these things and increase power they are going to increase the price again. Guess what SOA, at some point the vehicle will not be worth what you want to charge and people will start leaving and buying something else. The new Hyundai Genesis Coupe is a perfect example of this. 348 HP, Leather Seats, Heated Seats, Push Button Start, Moonroof, Navigation all for $33,500. So where does the extra $6000 come from SOA? It's not the AWD system that's for sure. It's like they saw a chance to make big money quick and started gouging people. FAIL FOR SOA!!!!!
If you disagree with their pricing, then don't buy one.

However, you're also forgetting rising costs in raw material, and the weakness of the US dollar vs the Yen.

Hyundai's while OK, really are not built as well as Subaru's, regardless of what a few fanbois will tell you, while the outside package has improved, they have still yet to prove their long term viability. They still cheap out in a lot of places and still have silly failures that could have easily been avoided with a better investment in parts at stage one. I have 3 friends who have each has a Tuscan, a Santa Fe, and a Accent.

Tusncan was a lemon, electrical issues galore

Santa Fe started falling apart after 10,000 miles, rattles everywhere

Accent, alternator died at 38k miles, dealer refused to service as the 10/100 doesn't transfer owners, and forced her to replace the battery first before they finally gave in and agreed it was the alternator.
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Old 02-19-2012, 07:33 AM   #1195
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Please Bring over the Exiga 7-Seater

Please also bring over the diesel motor across the line. Having driven an Outback Diesel in Scotland, I would have bought 2 without a second thought to replace my Impreza and my wife's Forester, especially after averaging over 45mpg in a vehicle that large.
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:40 PM   #1196
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Why on earth would Subaru produce an inline 3?
I think you meant: Why on earth would Subaru stop producing their inline 3?

It was such an awesome, torquey little engine that they should have kept making it! In comparing my old '88 Justy to the comparable Honda Civic I owned (Civic first, then Justy), the Justy's inline 3 felt like it had about double the torque of the Civic's 4-pot. Best little car I owned!
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #1197
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Please Bring over the Exiga 7-Seater
I'll second this if the next-gen Exiga is larger (and if the rumored Highlander/Tribeca tie-up doesn't happen).

I've also seen the Exiga referred to as a minivan. I would fully support a Subaru minivan here in the US, similar in size to the Honda Odyssey.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:52 PM   #1198
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I attended motorcycle mechanics intitute of orlando. I dont work in the industry anymore but during engine theory class, I learned a lot about how engines are designed and built. Inline threes have many merits. Theyre smooth, and more balanced than a four.
I think part of Subaru's charm is their unconventional designs. If they made a little four banger hatch it wouldn't be as "subaru" imo. I just think that bringing back a new Justy is a no-brainer. It would get better mpg's than Imprezas because its smaller, and the less conventional three gives it that Subaru authenticity. If they kept it under 15k it would be a great way of attracting more buyers to the brand and everyone who wanted a rugged, economical, long lasting econocar would be set!
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Old 02-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #1199
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How is a 120 degree triple more balanced than a 90-degree four? Maybe smoother than a flat-crank big-bang 180-degree I4s, like supersport motorcycles tend to have... (although they are going to 90-degree crankshafts, and offset crank locations compared to the cylinder centerlines, anymore)

In a motorcycle arena, I3s do tend to be torqier for the same displacement class, due to having larger individual pistons, and fewer cylinders allowing larger cylinder pitch while still having a shorter-length cylinder block at the same time.

The first motorcycle I ever fell in love with was a triple... a T595 Triumph Daytona, back when Daytonas were full-size bikes, not 600-class, as Daytona is now.

But they have to have a 60 degree firing order with a long back-side lag, or a 120 degree firing order, and they don't have the aspect of an opposed bank of cylinders to cancel their inertia like an H6 does, which does allow for an even 60 degree firing order by staggering the power strokes with the intake stroke of the piston opposite, in a boxer arrangement where both pistons fall toward each other, and rise away from each other.

An I3 does not have that opposition, and to balance the engine to be smooth, it probably requires a balance shaft, where an H4 or H6 has inherent natural balance.

An I3 has to be vertical. Subaru doesn't do vertical inline engines much. If it were to be a "flying brick" I3, like a BMW K75 motorcycle, it would have to be offset to one side of the car, or the other... and either in Japan/Britain/Australia, or in US/Europe, the engine would be on the same side of the car as the driver, and un-balance the car, laterally.

An H4 has a 4-cylinder/4-stroke firing order, and is one cylinder pitch shorter in length than an I3, and is much lower than a vertical inline anything of similar displacement and power. It also is more balanced than an I4, by the effects of the horizontally opposed pistons. An H6 is even more balanced than any 4 cylinder, and smoother than an I3, by allowing 2 banks of I3s to be firing out of phase with each other, with one power pulse every 60 degrees of crank rotation, rather than 120 degrees.

Most automotive 3-cylinder engines are purely economy engines, not performance engines like Triumph triples, which I happen to like, BTW... and they make sense transversely to cut down on width, compared to a 4. (not that I don't also like BMW's new 1600CC transverse I6, which is barely wider than the 1300cc I4. I6 has the same 60 degree firing order as an H6, and both act very nearly to half of a V12, BTW.)

BTW, Justy's 3-cylinder was vertical, and transverse, completely different than Subaru's H4-AWD layout, more like a Geo Metro FWD car, which also had a 3-cylinder engine. Transverse vertical engines save space by going to 3-cylinders. It is a different layout with Subaru's longitudinal layout.

Think of it this way... An old gold-wing flat 4 is shorter in length from the front of the crank to the flywheel, and shorter in height as well, with a lower center of gravity than a longitudinal Triumph Rocket 3 engine. Even if both were similar power, or even if the I3 were 25% less displacement, compared to the flat 4... the crankshaft would still have to be longer, and the head would have to be taller than the boxer's top intake manifold.

If we were talking about a transverse layout, I would almost suggest dropping the Rocket 3 engine into a lightweight car, and having fun with that... with the gearbox slung along side the crankshaft, inside the crankcase, not having to be bolted to the back of the engine. A tiny little RWD mid-engined car, like an ariel atom style thing, would be interesting with a rocket 3, adapted to drive a transverse differential, instead of a longitudinal driveshaft.

I would love to build a Morgan-style 3-wheeler, with a Triumph Rocket 3 motor, which would be epic fun.

But as for what you are suggesting, I don't see how Subaru can bring a whole new body platform, even if pared down from established Impreza hard points, to an even smaller size, AND produce a unique engine (an I3), with AWD hardware, and sell it for 15 thousand dollars new. The R&D for all of that would cost too much to pay back with a $15K market price point. Sharing the engine with already established engine platforms would cut costs, and might still have trouble selling with AWD on board for $15K, but maybe $17-19K.

Most high end motorcycles are more than 15K new anymore, with much less material and fewer component parts involved.

I too like uniqueness, and motorcycles. I like boxer, brick, and I6 BMWs, and 955-1050 triple Triumphs, and other V-twin bikes. I am not a huge fan of transverse I4s just as a matter of course, like YamaHondaKawaZuki, and now BMW S-RR seem to do to copy each other every two years. Interesting tech, but the same thing over and over.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike I3 engines... I am just not sure why Subaru would put one in an economy car, when they aren't paring down from an I4, they already have a superior H4 engine layout.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-21-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:27 PM   #1200
79letour
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I agree and I see your logic. Thank you for a very well put and eloquently stated post response.
I guess my assertion is that if for some reason they ever did depart from the boxer I'd rather see it be something different than everyone else's. And I still think a new Justy with a small thrifty rev happy three and awd would be a ton of fun and practical too. I just always wanted a justy and never have found a deal on one anywhere. Yes- I lust for a new Justy. In the meantime I'm loving my Impreza.
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