Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday October 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2010, 02:39 PM   #26
2milehi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 81633
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Dillon, CO
Vehicle:
'98 RS-T
Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phizinza View Post
the phase count doesn't change the kW figure, watts are watts.
No but the calculations change. You can either use line-to-neutral voltage or line-to-line voltage in the power calculation - but the √3 sneaks in there.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
2milehi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2010, 06:19 PM   #27
iana
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 252934
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Island Gaol
Vehicle:
99

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMobBoss View Post
Hmmm yes thanks but, I should point out that its 288Kw At The Wheels (ATW) which converts to roughly 410Kw at 6800rpm and 840Nm at 5200rpm at the crank.
I seriously don't think you have a single understanding about what the ez36 is.

Yep, big slow revving yank diesel v8's use offset big ends, they aren't made for speed. 8000g's of acceleration at 7200RPM or so is a massive fail inc for any offset rod, and pretty much anything not made by lets say....argo.

Use Argo sti rods with custom big ends. Destroke it to 2.5 with a semi closed deck top and sleeves, and make a real 9500rpm 800+hp engine. You obviously have the cash, just not the brains to do it right, at least the 2nd time.

If I were doing this, I'd also be doing that with say...twin low mounted GT25's and make use of the fact you have a liberty chassis, which has the room to do so and not some stupid high mount 1984 subaru idea which is all full of fail. Bit of a sexy dual entry single exit intercooler and find a spot for a radiator (ontop/behind the engine would be awesome for everything except nasioc cred, perfect spot with a proper draw through ventilation.

edit: and the twin turbo idea is a distand second behind a well made dual gate twin scroll GT4094r.

Last edited by iana; 08-02-2010 at 06:31 PM.
iana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2010, 06:29 PM   #28
iana
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 252934
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Island Gaol
Vehicle:
99

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMobBoss View Post
But, here is the fact: 288Kw at all fours at 10Psi boost.
I'm still researching custom forged parts for the EZ36. Would appreciate it if anyone knows any leads I can follow in achieving this. PLEASE PLEASE let me know.
So get it chassis dyno'd by a real workshop instead of lol racing. And preferably built by a real subaru workshop too, who knows how to screw a block together, there's only about 3 people in the country who can (Robin PMS, Michael MSE, Tony KRE, in order of preference of how they do things and experience in making 6-700+hp h6's [1, 0, 0]).

Internals you can work out yourself, you'd be silly not to go with a destroked 3.6 with sleeves and a weld in CD (for lack of a cnc profile locally), either 2.5 or 3.0, CP's, argo's, factory crank is already good enough, I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement in the exhaust side of the 3L heads, spend the cash with TK to get them done right, the factory is miles ahead of anythign 4cyl, but still miles from good.

Aside from that, stock cams are good enough. If you want power just throw a gt4202r106 on, can comment personally how well a GT4088r106 goes though. If I was budgeting the same money on my 4cyl at the time of purchase as I am now a month later, I'd be doing exactly this and chasing a real 8-900hp flywheel figure.

Head bolts are a bit of a **** point on them, you could go silly with PBMS 14's, or just stick to a good local half inch like the PMS stuff which is on a few 10sec street cars and 8sec drag etc without issue. Mains...I'd be chasing Greg at Proengines to be adding case dowels. He should be able to do a 6cyl easily enough, he just did the dowells for my 4banger. Its not stretch of a jig to knock something up.

But by the sounds of it, you're going to make some sort of 3.6L waste of your own time and money with some fairly average idea of a twin turbo setup. This time around do it right, with a real engine builder, and a real tuner. Feel free to PM me if you want some contacts that will do it 'right' in Aus, instead of feeding you bull**** and a half a.sed product at the end that performed far below what other h6's are doing for far less money.
iana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2010, 02:44 AM   #29
tino
Top Scoob 019
 
Member#: 43630
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Down Under
Vehicle:
2004 GT40R-built 2.5
604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109

Default

Very interested in this also...

iana.. are u on rexnet?? whats ur username??

I think robin has only made 1 H6 but still yet to see results.. also doing Nicks H6 but these are without head work etc, so not really built in my books..
tino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 08:09 AM   #30
DeMobBoss
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248280
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, London.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iana View Post
So get it chassis dyno'd by a real workshop instead of lol racing. And preferably built by a real subaru workshop too, who knows how to screw a block together, there's only about 3 people in the country who can (Robin PMS, Michael MSE, Tony KRE, in order of preference of how they do things and experience in making 6-700+hp h6's [1, 0, 0]).

Internals you can work out yourself, you'd be silly not to go with a destroked 3.6 with sleeves and a weld in CD (for lack of a cnc profile locally), either 2.5 or 3.0, CP's, argo's, factory crank is already good enough, I'm sure there is a lot of room for improvement in the exhaust side of the 3L heads, spend the cash with TK to get them done right, the factory is miles ahead of anythign 4cyl, but still miles from good.

Aside from that, stock cams are good enough. If you want power just throw a gt4202r106 on, can comment personally how well a GT4088r106 goes though. If I was budgeting the same money on my 4cyl at the time of purchase as I am now a month later, I'd be doing exactly this and chasing a real 8-900hp flywheel figure.

Head bolts are a bit of a **** point on them, you could go silly with PBMS 14's, or just stick to a good local half inch like the PMS stuff which is on a few 10sec street cars and 8sec drag etc without issue. Mains...I'd be chasing Greg at Proengines to be adding case dowels. He should be able to do a 6cyl easily enough, he just did the dowells for my 4banger. Its not stretch of a jig to knock something up.

But by the sounds of it, you're going to make some sort of 3.6L waste of your own time and money with some fairly average idea of a twin turbo setup. This time around do it right, with a real engine builder, and a real tuner. Feel free to PM me if you want some contacts that will do it 'right' in Aus, instead of feeding you bull**** and a half a.sed product at the end that performed far below what other h6's are doing for far less money.
Wow you really must be some kinda serious joker I might have taken you even slightly seriously (apart from the fact that you've said virtually nothing useful - you've just stated the obvious apart from the few FARM BOY diesel facts) if not for your simply foul, insulting and apparently bitter attitude... I don't know what you have against me (i don't think I've even met you before nor do I think you even know the car I'm talking about) or Pulse Racing. But, maybe there's something you havn't realised yet- those 4 wheel dyno 288Kws ATW is on a completely stock EZ30R engine - thats been tracked (achieving yet to be beaten benchmark track times at established racing tracks here in OZ all down to our record low RPM full spool at 2300rpm thanks to the TT setup) and hammered everyday its been driven since - with no reliability issues whatsoever 0-100Km/h in 3.7s averyday anytime while still keeping the car street driveable and easy to live with, done within the confines of the factory ECU with the SI drive system preserved and optimised. Any freak out there with any mass product tuning experience will tell you that takes serious engine management c/f Paul Fisher @ PulseRacing. I have put alot of my own time and effort into this project to make sure all was perfect. I'm a Mercedes Benz/Porsche privately trained mechanic and engineer and have read and consulted extensively about these engines - all I'm looking for are parts suppliers and contacts NOT unconstructive and ill informed criticism - read the FIRST POST!!! Before shooting ya mouth off...
This EZ36 build is not some half baked back yard four banger job you are clearly accustomed to. I will continue to "'waste my money and time'" with no help from you or anyone NOW affiliated to you thanks very much!
So, please kindly refrain from polluting this thread any further with trash talk - cuz thats all it is as far as I'm concerned 'trash talk' - all froth no substance.
P.S. Why the heck would you think I'd PM you after reading such undeniably plain insulting posts like that! - Simply unpardonable...

Last edited by DeMobBoss; 08-06-2010 at 06:41 PM.
DeMobBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 10:21 AM   #31
Anup
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 177360
Join Date: Apr 2008
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ
Vehicle:
2002 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeMobBoss View Post
Wow you really must be some kinda serious joker I might have taken you even slightly seriously (apart from the fact that you've said virtually nothing useful - you've just stated the obvious apart from the few FARM BOY diesel facts) if not for your simply foul, insulting and apparently bitter attitude... I don't know what you have against me (i don't think I've even met you before nor do I think you even know the car I'm talking about) or Pulse Racing. But, maybe there's something you havn't realised yet- those 4 wheel dyno 288Kws ATW is on a completely stock EZ30R engine - thats been tracked (achieving yet to be beaten benchmark track times at established racing tracks here in OZ all down to our record low RPM full spool at 2300rpm thanks to the TT setup) and hammered everyday its been driven since - with no reliability issues whatsoever 0-100Km/h in 3.7s averyday anytime while still keeping the car street driveable and easy to live with. Any freak out there with any mass product tuning experience will tell you that takes serious engine management c/f Paul Fisher. I have put alot of my own time and effort into this project to make sure all was perfect. I'm a Mercedes Benz/Porsche privately trained mechanic and engineer and have read and consulted extensively about these engines - all I'm looking for are parts suppliers and contacts NOT unconstructive and ill informed criticism - read the FIRST POST!!! Before shooting ya mouth off...
This EZ36 build is not some half baked back yard four banger job you are clearly accustomed to. I will continue to "'waste my money and time'" with no help from you or anyone NOW affiliated to you thanks very much!
So, please kindly refrain from polluting this thread any further with trash talk - cuz thats all it is as far as I'm concerned 'trash talk' - all froth no substance.
P.S. Why the heck would you think I'd PM you after reading such undeniably plain insulting posts like that! - Simply unpardonable...

I think he wins this argument
Anup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2010, 10:23 AM   #32
S&R Performance
Former Vendor
 
Member#: 146435
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tampa, FL
Default

can't wait to see more! Good luck with it.
S&R Performance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 03:54 AM   #33
iana
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 252934
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Island Gaol
Vehicle:
99

Default

Your car caught fire doctor. You lose.

You also spent 25+ k for 100less kw are than others ego can do it cheaper. You also dont seem to grasp what an ez36 is. Just use an ez30 and save the headaches. There is so much potential in the heads, and anything over 3l is goin to really hurt it's ability to rev. I'd love to see your 2nd go at it done exceptionally well, not just a dodgy 3.6 wiu a turbo and some rods and pistons. It just won't work.

But keeping si drive etc is awesome and there is accolades for that.

Tino, there is figures. If its the one your probably thinking of. They just aren't public, some arent into having their car over the Internet. It hauls.
iana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2010, 04:37 AM   #34
DeMobBoss
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248280
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, London.
Default

Ok well thats more like it, a more civilised reply. Now I'm willing to listen to you.
The EZ36R build has its challenges vs the EZ30R granted. Iam well aware of this. Both engines are here - got a spare EZ36R from a insurance write off on the cheap when the chance came up. and the EZ30R is still in the car. Given these challenges is what inspires me hence the reason I'm testing the water to see who may have some deeper insight into this in terms of parts that might compensate for this. Bottom line is Pulse Racing is my garage and I'm gonna be intrinsically involved in the build so no turning back. But, the fact is this means I get exactly what I want, to my specs, so if you have anything valuable to add then I'd love to hear it. However, I certainly don't have time for 'soggy emotional cry-talk' about Pulse... If the EZ36 build fails despite this I will default to the EZ30R but I'm keen to give the EZ36 build a go. There are some subtle crank dynamics about the EZ36, inherent and fundamental to the boxer design (not present in I or V config diesels with offset cranks), that are not obvious that allow it to still rev high enough. This is what I want to explore -and am taking the spare engine apart as we speak to see. I will PM you when I get some time later this month to discuss this further - if you are NSW based then lets meet!
Its not about winning or loosing its R&D - Yes The EZ30R did catch fire which was luckily only caused minor damage and required replacing only simple wiring loom. That was a foolish and idiotic gamble on my part to have tracked it on a 40 degree centigrade day without heatproofing any of the new exhaust add ons causing the gearbox soundproofing which is supposed to be flame retardant to roast and catch fire. Now its running touchable cool thanks to the ceramic coating and heat wraps and a GT hood scoop temps back there are now 60% cooler when the car is moving and 40% when stationary measures in 38 degrees cent'. This also has a by-product of measurably cooler intake temps and increased turbo efficiency- Its a WINNER now!... Read the thread on liberty.asn
PM ya later. And P.S I spent well under 25K thank you! I work damn hard for my money like anybody I hate throwing it away for nothing. That said, if anyone has achieved more power than I have under the same build parameters without blowing up the stock engine or sacrificing reliability or driveability, I'd like to see proof!

Last edited by DeMobBoss; 08-24-2010 at 12:28 PM.
DeMobBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2011, 01:58 AM   #35
Amazing Asian
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 259589
Join Date: Oct 2010
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Vehicle:
05 Saabaru 9-2X
Deep Blue Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meron THIEF View Post
COMMUNITY WARNING: David Meron = THIEF

Hi, I want to get a quick word out to everyone here about "mbtech" David Meron of "meron-motors" (not an actual business, just himself) - this warning might save some people some money/headache and these communities should not be polluted by scum criminals like him:

AVOID doing ANY business with David / Dave Meron and do not purchase ANYTHING from him - specifically my 2.0 liter EJ 20 engine that he stole from me in the South Gate / Glendale area of Los Angeles...

He might even come off as a nice guy and knowledgeable, but I assure you that he is nothing more than a punk 22 year old THIEF and LIAR. And you won't find him at 11101 Palmer anymore. Feel free to PM me for further inquiry/evidence- I'll also update when later permitted, further details soon...


David Meron, Dave Meron, meron-motors, meron motors, mmotors
Dude seriously? 28 posts just about this guy.....
Amazing Asian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 04:35 PM   #36
sabreofsd
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 48943
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: NoVA
Vehicle:
2004 95%*STi Blu/Gld
www.dcawd.com

Default

Any updates?
sabreofsd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:10 PM   #37
DeMobBoss
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248280
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, London.
Default Quick update!

Sorry for the long silence. Life got in the way over the past 18months.
Quick update:
Most regretably EZ36 forged internals just getting to be too much of a headache to get custom made as nil off the shelf parts exist as yet.
EZ30R off the shelf forged internals delivered and ready to go.
EZ36 being dismantled too see if anything can be cannibalised possibly EZ30 stroker using EZ36 crank.
Just want to get some baseline 1/4mile times in the stock internal EZ30TT before we take it apart. Did a random drive in drive out and got a 12.2seconds with spare tyre and all in the back . Should be able to get into the 11s after a service and some weight saving. Videos will be posted don't worry.

Will update again shortly... Watch this space.
DeMobBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 08:35 PM   #38
Seraphinwolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150922
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fremont, NH
Vehicle:
97 OBS EZ30R
94SVX LSi Bourduex Pearl

Default

Have you see the inside of a EZ36R? Far from the same as either 3.0L
Seraphinwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 11:01 PM   #39
subi400
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 216984
Join Date: Jul 2009
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Hayden, ID
Vehicle:
1996 Impreza outback
Green

Default

Subscribed!!
subi400 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 11:39 PM   #40
DeMobBoss
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248280
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, London.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphinwolf View Post
Have you see the inside of a EZ36R? Far from the same as either 3.0L
Not yet and yes we are well aware of its uniqueness... But, since we can't actually use the EZ36 for the full build we at least wanna see what of it we can use, if anything, before we get rid of it. We'll see what can or cannot be done soon, either way, a full write up will reveal all of our trials and tribulations....

Last edited by DeMobBoss; 01-15-2012 at 12:26 AM.
DeMobBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2012, 09:19 AM   #41
DeMobBoss
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 248280
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, London.
Default

Yeah thats not gonna work. just read this if you havn't already:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1285411
So EZ30 it is all the way it seems.
Had the ole girl on the dyno the other day for pre 1/4mile tune up on 85proof moonshine and she pumped out a whopping 336.2Kw @TheWheels:
DeMobBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 02:28 PM   #42
Seraphinwolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150922
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fremont, NH
Vehicle:
97 OBS EZ30R
94SVX LSi Bourduex Pearl

Default

450whp isn't bad at all on 13psi
Seraphinwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 11:27 AM   #43
GEE-OTTO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 201277
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Arlington VA
Vehicle:
2009 Legacy GT
OBP

Default

I know forged is celarly the best way to go and most reliable for boost but the other guy that TT'd his EZ36R did so on stock internals. Yes detonation is still a fear as with any boosted engine but good tuning and components mitigate that risk. Twin low mounts would be nice but a EZ36R puts out enough to spool a GT3582 or a GT4088 single turbo with positive results.
GEE-OTTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 09:06 PM   #44
auslyle
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129737
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Bend Oregon
Vehicle:
04 Sweet Impreza
silver

Default

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/perrin-h6-build-up/ Jeff Perrin, form Perrin Performance when through a ton of R and D on this.
auslyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:29 AM   #45
GEE-OTTO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 201277
Join Date: Jan 2009
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Arlington VA
Vehicle:
2009 Legacy GT
OBP

Default

That was a sick car wish they never sold it !
GEE-OTTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 05:43 PM   #46
Seraphinwolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150922
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fremont, NH
Vehicle:
97 OBS EZ30R
94SVX LSi Bourduex Pearl

Default

3.6 is way too different from the 3.0L's.
Plus the weakest point of the 3.6 is the crank position being recessed a whole 3"s below the center.
Seraphinwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:07 PM   #47
vicious_fishes
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:
2003 GD w/EZ30D swap

Default

as a fellow aussie i'd be very interested to see what you could do a 3.0l swap into a GD or GC for.
vicious_fishes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #48
Seraphinwolf
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 150922
Join Date: Jun 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Fremont, NH
Vehicle:
97 OBS EZ30R
94SVX LSi Bourduex Pearl

Default

Well you can see what my American build will be like when I get it finien taking my sweet ass time, but I"m aiming for this year to be done. Built shortblock and STi everything else with a BW S366 ina 97' Outback Sport.
Seraphinwolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
EZ30 and EZ36 questions masterpickle Built Motor Discussion 11 03-12-2010 10:42 PM
EZ36 Heads on a EZ30R Block? BigRigger Built Motor Discussion 0 06-29-2009 01:04 PM
JDM Engines Just Arrived EJ207 STi Spec.C/EJ20 Twin Turbo/EJ25 FXT/EZ30/EZ36 Gruppe-S Engine/Power/Exhaust 15 09-22-2008 07:20 PM
EZ36 info?? GreenMarine Normally Aspirated Powertrain 8 01-05-2008 02:03 AM
Will we ever see a biturbo 3 liter? brokemypiston News & Rumors 33 11-28-2003 09:38 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.