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Old 03-05-2012, 07:43 AM   #26
theotherguy
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Header...item231a6b1280

They used to have a few but only see one now.


To the OP, I think going with Blouch is a great idea.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:21 AM   #27
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Running a 20G-XT-R currently.... Solid turbo.

Question:
Do you want to spend $800 on a gamble, or spend double and get what you pay for?.... your money, you choose.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #28
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We put a TD06SL2-20G-8cm on my car. Risked my engine. Ran that turbo at peak boost around 24/25psi E85, TMIC, EWG, headers etc. Turning up decent power figures, great 1/4mi times of 11.75@116.

I don't build my engine just to be able to handle boost but to be able to drive it hard. I push my engine to the limit and i expect it to handle the hard driving. Revving it to 8000rpms and seeing boost non stop. This turbo made it and it's still running as we speak.

Just saying from experience... and yes i would buy one.

and please stop comparing the XT turbos. A billet wheel vs non-billet wheel will cost more, especially when it's ball bearing.
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Old 03-05-2012, 01:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K
We put a TD06SL2-20G-8cm on my car. Risked my engine. Ran that turbo at peak boost around 24/25psi E85, TMIC, EWG, headers etc. Turning up decent power figures, great 1/4mi times of 11.75@116.

I don't build my engine just to be able to handle boost but to be able to drive it hard. I push my engine to the limit and i expect it to handle the hard driving. Revving it to 8000rpms and seeing boost non stop. This turbo made it and it's still running as we speak.

Just saying from experience... and yes i would buy one.

and please stop comparing the XT turbos. A billet wheel vs non-billet wheel will cost more, especially when it's ball bearing.
The xt is journal bearing. The xtr is ball bearing. I agree though on the billet wheel statement.
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Old 03-07-2012, 03:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuJi K View Post
We put a TD06SL2-20G-8cm on my car. Risked my engine. Ran that turbo at peak boost around 24/25psi E85, TMIC, EWG, headers etc. Turning up decent power figures, great 1/4mi times of 11.75@116.

I don't build my engine just to be able to handle boost but to be able to drive it hard. I push my engine to the limit and i expect it to handle the hard driving. Revving it to 8000rpms and seeing boost non stop. This turbo made it and it's still running as we speak.

Just saying from experience... and yes i would buy one.
I have the same turbo,been running it @ 22psi for 6k now no probs(knock on wood)
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:15 PM   #31
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"kinugawa" turbos are Kamaks.
Kamak is a Taiwanese manufacturer that is on the par of current Chinese and Mexican built Garretts.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:25 PM   #32
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I have tuned a few turbos that people have purchased off ebay new. They are less than 50% good right out of the box. I only think 1 or 2 even worked correctly. They were just throw together with out even being ballanced.Probably from some 8 year old kid in a factory somewhere. Slow spool, 1 leaked oil from bad seals on start up a couple rubbed the housing when you would spin it with your fingers. I am not sure if any were this exact brand but I honestly would buy used before I spent that kind of money on a new not working turbo.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:23 PM   #33
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Blouch ftw!!!
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:46 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07wrx84
Blouch ftw!!!
x2 on that one buddy. Not to thread jack but I Can't wait to get my 20g on. Still waiting to hear back from Justice Racing. Jim should be about done sleeving and bore/honing. I guess I need to get him a crank sometime so he can align hone the mains and get the shortblock together lol.

How's your 20g holding up @ over 400whp 07?
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Old 08-04-2012, 10:48 PM   #35
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News Meh

Kinugawa Turbos are not made in China. The turbos are made in Taiwan and use Kamak parts mainly. Kamak is a Taiwan OE supplier of parts to many aftermarket turbo suppliers/builders over the world. They are the #1 supplier for aftermarket turbos in Asia for Hyundai's. They even have a racing program. Kamak parts are available to USA based turbo builders and are in many of your name brand USA hybrid turbos. Also, about a year ago, Kamak grew big enough to start producing it's own 6 axis milling machine. They now make the billet (XT in Blouch speak) compressor wheels. For Subarus, Kinugawa is currently assembling Kamak CHRA's into Greddy copied housings (some from Kamak, some from other suppliers). Kinugawa used to just re-label Kamak turbos and sell them. I have had multiple conversations with both companies and companies in the USA. It probably helps that I have been to Taiwan and I know the people there can make quaility parts. Kamak uses the same equipment for balancing turbo CHRAs that the USA based producers use (the ones with proper CHRA balancers like FP, Blouch, etc). Kinugawa has a very good reputation in Asia (incuding Australia). The ebay turbos you are thinking of are cheap $300 units these days and yes, they are a scam. The are simply not balanced (this is what costs the most money on a turbo as a good balancer is quite a bit of $$$$).

I have internet tuned a Kamak TD06-SL2 20G (the older FP Green copy) turbo nearly 3 years ago. It made Green power and was able to max the stock MAF so it had to be dialed back a bit in the upper RPM. It is still holding up to this day.

I recently ordered a T67-25G based turbo with the following modifications:
  • TD06-SL2 turbine wheel (balanced with the CHRA)
  • 8cm^2 TD06 turbine housing
  • 25G billet aluminum compressor wheel
  • Greddy copied T67-25G 3inch, ported inlet (to fight surge) compressor housing (it is large)
  • T67-25G oil and water cooled CHRA, balanced on Schenck balancer with wheels attached

I have even had converstions with Rob (owner of FP) on my facebook page about it. I may take it down to his shop (since it is only 30 miles from me) so he can even look it over and check the balancing. The turbo has no fancy porting, no coatings, etc. that you see on many of the USA marketed hybrid turbos (the only turbo recetly made for USA bound Subarus by Mitsubishi is the older WRX 13T, so we are talking about hybrid turbos). Still some USA made hybrid turbos are just put together with a pre-balanced CHRA. I can do all the porting/coating myself, so it makes a difference to me. Any hybrid turbo will never outlast an OE made turbo like many rotated mountable turbos from Garrett, Borg Warner, etc. It is a hybrid turbo and not engineered as well as a large company with 30 engineers on the project can do (read about the new BW EF series turbo bio; they are quite advanced in technology). If I was ready to go rotated, I would only purchase a BW or a Garret turbo. I even shyed away from the stock location 35Rs that are offered. If I am going to pay $2000 for a turbo, it is coming directly from a large company such as honeywell (Garrett) or Borg Warner that use 30+ engineers and many state of the art industry standard tests that meet or exceed OE standards. I only expect this turbo to last as long as my Blouch did, which was about 3 years and 40K miles of my abuse. I abuse my car quiet regulary. I do not expect any hybrid turbo to last as long as an OE turbo.

Anyway, the point I am trying to make here is that as long you make sure your CHRA is balanced and have done your research that the turbo is made from quality parts, buy it. Don't go posting on hear-say. That just makes you look uniformed and you are spreading FUD. If you are too lazy to do the research, let your tuner decide.

If my new turbo spits its guts out right away, I will flame Kamak and Kinugawa like no other in the world and eat these words.
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Old 08-04-2012, 11:30 PM   #36
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^ Finally!! Someone w/ intelligence( besides Fuji) posts !
22B forums have nothing but great things to say about the Kinugawa turbos, that was a major contributing factor in my purchase decision.
You guys really think Fp & Blouch make their own castings ? I personally do not ( the Mitsu compressor housings are a give away)
We all know if there are penny's to be saved they damn well will do so .
So unless you have personal experience using a Kamak or Kinugawa turbo .. u just have an opinion.
I have /still & will continue to use them w/out any doubts on the reliability of them .
EDM & ADM guys have been in this Subaru turbo game far longer than Us .
If there would have been any problems, They'd be the first to discover it .
Yet nothing to date that I could find.
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Old 08-05-2012, 01:21 AM   #37
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A mate of mine mods and tunes a lot of WRX's. I was asking him about the Kinugawas (Kando) turbos recently. He had a reasonably high opinion of them particularly for the price. He said one of their TD06's he tuned was a pretty quick car.

There is also a fair amount of internet chatter about them here in AUS. There is a consistent view from those that have used them that the quality is pretty good. Nobody is discussing failures.

If they can go to a billet wheel and ball bearing centre and still keep their costs down you'd have to imagine they'll grab a pretty decent market share.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:24 AM   #38
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I have run an exhaust housing from them on my EVOIII 16G, am running now a twinscroll housing on the same tubo, have run many actuators from them, installation kits and have had a rebuild kit from Kamak for a 16g.

They make quality product.
I have reviewed with measurements every component in the rebuild kit from Kamak and will try to post the link here.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ak+rebuild+kit


Back in the earlier days, when there were postings from FP and Blouch on the forums on a weekly basis, they were throwing lines at eachother regarding components in their MHI tubo line-up, being or not being original. There was stuff about how to ID an original MHI compressor wheel by the color, etc.
These turbo assemblers (and makers now, as far as billet wheels), use components that they... source, for housings, actuators, turbine&shaft, etc. Not always are said components MHI.
If they are not MHI, how do you know that these components don't .... also come from an Asian Warehouse, where Kamak is sourcing them?

Consider that the Japanese manufacturers, such as MHI, are starting to also outsource their labor outside of Japan...

The only thing that makes a product quality these days is quality control, origin means nothing. There is every indication (for me) that Kamak has good quality control.
Which doesn't mean that other "ebay turbos" are any good.
What I've seen and read was that Kamak turbos are sold as: Kinugawa and Kando Dynamic.
My items shipped from a warehouse in Taiwan.
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Old 08-05-2012, 08:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripman View Post
If they can go to a billet wheel and ball bearing centre and still keep their costs down you'd have to imagine they'll grab a pretty decent market share.
They have gone billet wheel, but some infor that I have is that they won't go ball bearing centre.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:28 AM   #40
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Cool My turbo is arriving today!

Kamak (most Kinugawa bolt on turbos are simply re-branded Kamak's) believes their thrust bearing design is far superior to an MHI thrust bearing (they claim 30% porosity for obsorbing oil which allows the turbo to run cooler). The bearings were re-designed about 3 years ago, after the posts about the non-mhi thrust bearing failures made by some turbo builders in the USA. I don't think Kamak even uses any Mitsubishi parts in their turbos anymore. They make all their stuff at their main facility in Taiwan. Kinugawa is in the same building.

Even the EVO guys are starting to embrace some of their turbo offerings (the favorite being the TD06-SL2 20G). One EVO guy on evolutionm.net bought the same turbo as I am getting (TD06SL2-25G 8CM^2; ported anti-surge 3 inch compressor cover; his is twinscroll, but mine has the newer "STS" turbine wheel design and the newer billet "GTX" aluminum compressor wheel; it is a superback wheel as well) for his 2.3L stroker 4g63. With the slightly older wheels, he is making 540 ft/lbs of WTQ on gas and is not finished tuning it. The front end of his EVO "lifts" off the ground according to him. Similar very good reviews on the Kinugawa turbos can be found on evom.net. Good reviews for Kamak / Kinugawa turbos have been on all the boards abroad.

I'll post up pics and my inital thoughts tonight.
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:04 AM   #41
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My favorite is their TD06 SL2 with the 3" compressor cover (no antisurge), with the twinscroll turbine cover with 10sq cm, with "regular" compressor wheel, I am comparing it with their 16G twinscroll with billet compressor wheel, with the reduced blade count turbine.
The 16g billet should be pushing 18g flow and maybe spool faster than a regular 16g.
There is a guy on the EJ207 owner's that got it and is getting ready to install it.
When my time to replace the turbo comes, I will choose one of these two, the price is right too.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:31 PM   #42
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I thought about going twinscroll, but I opted against it for now. I wanted the larer 25G compressor wheel coupled with the TD06-SL2 turbine. It makes awesome TQ on the forums I have read, and pulls till redline. People with multiple different cars are all pretty much making over 400WHP, 450WTQ on that turbo. The 60-1 compressor wheel is the highest flowing they have, but it has a good amount of lag compared to the 25G wheel and not much more top end (50 WHP at the most). I wanted the 20G like powerband, just shifted to the right a bit. The STS type turbo I ordered should make the powerband fatter than the non-STS. I can always slap a twinscroll turbine housing on my sl2-25G.

You can D/L the Kamak catalog from their site to see what turbos they offer from here. It seems for the most part (for 2012 at least) the Kinugawa branded turbos are typically the "STD TYPE" and the Kamak branded turbos are the "STS Type". The STS type has the billet compressor wheel, billet turbo actuator (looks similar to the forge motorsport actuator; user can change the spring), and the GTX billet aluminum superback compressor wheel. You can get the STS type from Kinugawa directly, but they are not advertised on Kinugawa's website; only the STD type is. Downloading both the 2001 and 2012 catalog heps to see what they offer (Kinugawa or Kamak).
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:00 PM   #43
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Default Just arrived!

Wow, this turbo is really nice. Less side to side shaft play than my Blouch when it was new. Everything looks and feels great. The install kit is quality as well. I ordered the turbo a week ago and it was shipped on Wednesday; arrived the next Monday. They did what I thought; took this advertised turbo off the shelf, took it apart, added the GTX compressor wheel, rebalanced it (the marks are there where it was re-balanced for the compressor wheel), replaced the WG actuator with a billet one, and shipped it. Very happy so far with my purchase. Pics soon.

All of this for right under $1k.
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Old 08-06-2012, 05:36 PM   #44
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Default Pics

You can see in some of the pics where material was taken off the wheels to balance it as well as the markers. On with the pics!

Kinugawa TD06SL2-25G Subaru stock location with GTX compressor wheel, Billet wastgate actuator, 8CM^2 turbine housing, 3 inch ported inlet compressor housing.







Last edited by gabedude; 08-06-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:19 PM   #45
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Looks awesome gabe
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Old 08-06-2012, 07:35 PM   #46
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Sweet...
Gabe, could you take a pic of the wastegate actuator bracket for me from the back of the compressor housing?
Having a hard time getting the right bracket for my 60-1 td06sl2, they're trying to get the right one but that would help a ton. Communication with authentic boosting has been very good, always a reply in a day or so.
I'll have some virtual dyno results for the 60-1 td06sl2 soon.
Thanks...
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:40 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethereal Drain View Post
So basically this is all you'd need to convert to a twin scroll? Obviously I know you'd need a tune/etc..

http://www.crispmods.com/index.php?p...emart&Itemid=2

wow that is a knock off from the tomei twin scroll header they make
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:29 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theotherguy View Post
Sweet...
Gabe, could you take a pic of the wastegate actuator bracket for me from the back of the compressor housing?
Having a hard time getting the right bracket for my 60-1 td06sl2, they're trying to get the right one but that would help a ton. Communication with authentic boosting has been very good, always a reply in a day or so.
I'll have some virtual dyno results for the 60-1 td06sl2 soon.
Thanks...
The bracket is the same as this one. I have flipped it around because it was put on backwards and was not seated perfectly. Now from the front the turbo looks like the one on this page (but it has a Kinugawa label). The bracket is a flat piece of unpolished aluminum. It has a triangle shape with the coutouts where the bolts can hold, so the position is adjutable (the cutouts are on the curved side of the flat triangle shape).

So far I have taken off the turbine housing and WG actuator. My snap ring pliers went missing, so I need to pick up another set to remove the compressor housing. The actuator is not as well designed as a Forge Motorsport (instead of a rubber ball with the actuator arm screwing into the ball, the WG arm has metal piston on the inside of the assembly and a rubber-like mebrane that seals and can stretch on top of the piston, clamped down with the screws). It seems functional as long as the membrane does not break. I will probably fit my Forge WG actuator onto the unit instead however. If that membrane breaks, the turbo will overboost. I did get an upgraded map sensor as well, so I can start using the boost cut in case it fails. Evything else looks and feels great.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:37 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
You can see in some of the pics where material was taken off the wheels to balance it as well as the markers. On with the pics!

Kinugawa TD06SL2-25G Subaru stock location with GTX compressor wheel, Billet wastgate actuator, 8CM^2 turbine housing, 3 inch ported inlet compressor housing.







Very nice, Fuji turned me on to kinugawa/kamak. Compared to my OG FP Green which is 49lb/min.
1.This 25g is how many lb/min?

2. Also i have seen the kinugawa's with the surge ports for evos', what function does this have?

3. On a stock block 205, ewg, 93 oct, fmic, hallman, 11.5 afr.........when do you believe it would hit full boost.....if you had to guess?
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:52 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
The bracket is the same as this one. I have flipped it around because it was put on backwards and was not seated perfectly. Now from the front the turbo looks like the one on this page (but it has a Kinugawa label). The bracket is a flat piece of unpolished aluminum. It has a triangle shape with the coutouts where the bolts can hold, so the position is adjutable (the cutouts are on the curved side of the flat triangle shape).

So far I have taken off the turbine housing and WG actuator. My snap ring pliers went missing, so I need to pick up another set to remove the compressor housing. The actuator is not as well designed as a Forge Motorsport (instead of a rubber ball with the actuator arm screwing into the ball, the WG arm has metal piston on the inside of the assembly and a rubber-like mebrane that seals and can stretch on top of the piston, clamped down with the screws). It seems functional as long as the membrane does not break. I will probably fit my Forge WG actuator onto the unit instead however. If that membrane breaks, the turbo will overboost. I did get an upgraded map sensor as well, so I can start using the boost cut in case it fails. Evything else looks and feels great.
Gabe, thanks for taking the time to help me out, should be easy to order one today. The 60-1 that I have was built from kinugawa wheels, rebuild kit and compressor housing, the rest was from parts that I had laying around. Been running it on spring pressure only with a modified actuator but will be putting 17 pounds to it this weekend to see what it'll do.
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