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Old 03-28-2012, 11:40 AM   #1
banyan
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Subaru Stars 2013 Subaru Outback/Legacy

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Last edited by banyan; 04-04-2012 at 07:26 PM. Reason: post link
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #2
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Any substantial engine changes, or is it still rocking the EJ series? Any plans for it to have an FB engine?
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #3
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Thumbs down

The new rims make wheels look smaller
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #4
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The "boomerang" in the headligts is probably for der daytime running ligths? At least in Europe.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:11 PM   #5
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I see the outback has larger fog holes.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:23 PM   #6
banyan
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Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
Any substantial engine changes, or is it still rocking the EJ series? Any plans for it to have an FB engine?
According to lgt.com source, the only things that have changed are - the interior, headlights, grill and bumper. So, they will probably continue to use EJ engine.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:27 PM   #7
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Looks like i need to go drive the TSX wagon instead... Bring back the legacy wagon. not these bloated boats.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banyan View Post
According to lgt.com source, the only things that have changed are - the interior, headlights, grill and bumper. So, they will probably continue to use EJ engine.
Any additional info on the interior changes? Substantial?
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #9
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Can't understand Subaru's thinking.
Whats the point of having two 2.5 N/A engines?
The FB is a better engine.
Why not just drop it in the Leggy and be done with it?
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom@kartboy View Post
Looks like i need to go drive the TSX wagon instead... Bring back the legacy wagon. not these bloated boats.
The Legacy wagons that nobody bought. I totally agree with you though. On that subject, there was a thread floating around here a while ago where Subaru built a concept GT Touring Wagon, with a 1.6 liter with a turbo and a hybrid. Pure concept, but on the right track to wagon goodness.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #11
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The headlights are a little better, by being less overwhelming bling... but don't fix the car's aesthetic boringness compared to my BL Legacy sedan

The wheels on the Outback are more striking than anything... Three bold polished spokes, in front of three other background thin spokes... Not sure if I like the design... but I can't say it is boring like the BRZ and Impreza OE wheels lately.

Come to think of it... I wonder what those 3-over-3 Outback wheels would look like on a BRZ... The BRZ wheels are way too busy looking. 06-07 WRX 7-spoke wheels would also look good on there, and probably Subaru's best looking OE 5x100 wheels in a while. But it is entirely more likely to put aftermarket staggered width wheels on the BRZ, rather than swapping for other Subaru OE wheels.

The Legacy's wheels look almost exactly like Hyundai wheels on the new Genesis Coupe, almost down to the contouring on the spokes. Different PCD, though, obviously.


Regarding the engine: Unless the specs are released, or there are under hood photos, it would be impossible to tell from the outside that the engine would be changed or not.

It would be interesting if Forester's FB25 NA engine replaced the base EJ25 NA engine.

If they were to unfortunately discontinue the slow-selling and order-only Legacy GT... there wouldn't be cam belt to be found on ANY of the 2013 Legacy/Outback, or Tribeca if it survives.

With the Impreza's use of the FB NA engines now... cutting them from Legacy/Outback would pretty much put the naturally-aspirated EJ lineup to bed entirely.

Only the current Forester XT, and WRX/STI motors would be turbo EJs, until the next generation of WRX/STI arrives with the FA/FB based turbo motor debuts, and likely brings the Forester XT along with it, if that survives.

It would be logical for the Legacy/Outback to go FB25 and EZ36 across the line, and a mid-life refresh is as good a time as any.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 03-28-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom@kartboy View Post
Looks like i need to go drive the TSX wagon instead... Bring back the legacy wagon. not these bloated boats.
TSX wagon is longer and wider than an Outback or Legacy. Bloat indeed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
TSX wagon is longer and wider than an Outback or Legacy. Bloat indeed.
Wow, I wouldn't have thought that.

TSX is supposed to be smaller than TL and smaller than Accord as it is sold as the Accord in other markets outside of North America,

Plus, Legacy/Outback grew significantly in 2010 for this body style... I would have figured the current Legacy/Outback would be closer to TL in size, and larger than TSX...

Bloat indeed.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH View Post
Can't understand Subaru's thinking.
Whats the point of having two 2.5 N/A engines?
The FB is a better engine.
Why not just drop it in the Leggy and be done with it?
If they stick with the EJ, it will be because the FB doesn't fit as a drop in replacement and they don't want to retool the engine bay for a car that is getting replaced in ~2 years with an all new model. Also FB CVT may be a fitment issue.

I don't mind the EJ, aside from the fact that is uses a timing belt which makes for a costly replacement every 75K miles Real world MPG between the EJ and the DB doesn't seem to differ by much.

Last edited by ocellaris; 03-28-2012 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:09 PM   #15
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Thumbs down SOA ninjas are in action

SOA ninjas are in action The member on lgt.com deleted all his posts
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
If they stick with the EJ, it will be because the FB doesn't fit as a drop in replacement and they don't want to retool the engine bay for a car that is getting replaced in ~2 years with an all new model. Also FB CVT may be a fitment issue.

I don't mind the EJ, aside from the fact that is uses a timing belt which makes for a costly replacement every 75K miles Real world MPG between the EJ and the DB doesn't seem to differ by much.

What about an FB25 makes it a non-drop-in replacement for the EJ25 NA motor?

They DID THAT ALREADY, The 2009-10 Forester had EJ. The 2011-current Forester, SAME BODY, has the FB, directly. The SH Forester didn't get a big press hoopla party for that, and nothing else visible from the outside of the vehicle changed. The internal structure didn't change. Aside from maybe wheel design, it would be very hard to tell a 2010 Forester X from a 2011 Forester X, but the engine did change from EJ25 to FB25.

The 2010 Legacy/Outback debuted an engine-cradle arrangment. The engine cradle was meant to offer modularity as to which Subaru engine fits in that chassis.

There is pretty much a ZERO percent chance that the '10 Legacy Engine cradle design was designed to preclude the FB engine fitment, as the FB engine was on the docket for 2011, in the Forester, and has been planned to entirely replace the EJ engine line.

The FB25 has DOHC, and DUAL AVCS, where EJ atmospheric engine does not, and FB25 has a little bit more torque. The FB is also likely designed to accept direct fuel injection at some point, and Legacy/Outback is likely to recieve that before Impreza does, because Legacy/Outback is a better featured, higher margin, higher price point vehicle.

I don't think there is a single thing that makes a problem for dropping an FB25 under the hood of a Legacy or Outback. Legacy GT has a low front turbo, so the front-wrap exhaust is designed similarly, and will fit.

The FB25 Forester uses the age-old Subaru 5-speed manual, and 4-speed auto... it bolts to the same transmissions. It bolts to the same engine mounts, and is likely designed for easy use with the engine cradle, as mentioned.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 03-28-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post

I don't think there is a single thing that makes a problem for dropping an FB25 under the hood of a Legacy or Outback.
I don't think there is either. Maybe Subaru just wants to finish up this run of Outbacks with its current configuration and migrate over to a new engine/trans combo with the next model. Maybe the economy of scale metrics don't work out to pay for changes to line production in the US or something.

It's strange that they did it mid-model on the Forester though. Maybe because it is built in Japan?

It is a bit baffling to say the least.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:19 PM   #18
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I have seen the images, and they are glorious!

The front end of the Legacy is more aggresive and looks more like a mix of the ROW '10-11 Legacy and the Legacy Tuned by STI. But the grill is bigger (the new Subaru trend a la Advanced Tourer Concept...but not THAT big)


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Old 03-28-2012, 04:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grzydj View Post
I don't think there is either. Maybe Subaru just wants to finish up this run of Outbacks with its current configuration and migrate over to a new engine/trans combo with the next model. Maybe the economy of scale metrics don't work out to pay for changes to line production in the US or something.

It's strange that they did it mid-model on the Forester though. Maybe because it is built in Japan?

It is a bit baffling to say the least.
I don't think there is any sort of *confirmation* that the EJ is still there, or the FB has replaced it or not replaced it.

The comment was
Quote:
Originally Posted by banyan
According to lgt.com source, the only things that have changed are - the interior, headlights, grill and bumper. So, they will probably continue to use EJ engine.
The engine comment was conjecture.

The interior, headlights, grille, and bumper are externally visible changes, or at least they were until they were removed. You can extrapolate that as a tacit confirmation of sorts that they were legit, or not. That is up to you.

Unless they saw the engine under the hood, which is not among the photographs that were leaked, there is no information one way or the other about the engine... the engine is not outwardly visible, and cannot be determined from photographs of the exterior of the car, or the interior visible trough the windows. One could examine the photographs, and probably extrapolate the list of visible changes that the LGT.com source is referred to giving.

It has not been established that the engine is not changing, it simply wasn't listed amongst the visibly noticeable changes, because it isn't visibly noticeable.

It is possible that it might not change. (and I would wonder why not)

It is possible that the engine might be the FB25 now. (which would make some sense)

But so far, lack of evidence is not evidence in itself.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
TSX wagon is longer and wider than an Outback or Legacy. Bloat indeed.
not by much ~1"
I'm referring to the super high ride height and awful mushy suspension. I heard rumors that they are going stiffer suspension along with bigger bars to help with the shakes at speed.


http://www.edmunds.com/car-compariso...atorId=3583615
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:14 PM   #21
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Supposed to debut at the NY Auto Show, which starts next week. SOA wants to keep it a surprise for a few more days, apparently. The images of the cars looked fine to me. Subtle enough changes. I'm not a big fan of the wheels on either car, though... hopefully they're not too flashy to deter sales. Maybe I could see them on turbo versions, but they didn't seem conservative enough to fit with mainstream Legacy and Outback buyers. My 2 cents. Wonder what the interior changes are. Hopefully Impreza's tilting headrests make it into the rest of the lineup.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Plus, Legacy/Outback grew significantly in 2010 for this body style...
not really - the transition from old design (2009) to current (2010) was a whopping 55 lbs gain in weight from the 2009 (for the LGT) and it grew longer by a whole half an inch, as well as gaining 3 inches in width and height.

Not sure about the changes/face lift for the 2013 - the headlights which are partially blacked out and have the LED thing like the BRZ are nice, but the bumper looks odd (larger protrusions in the corners, and the foglights are pushed forward from the bumper with a chrome trim ring, without really making them larger - they look sort of odd. The new grille looks alot like the Impreza (I thought the 2010-2012 looked nicer) - still haven't seen any interior details, though...
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:50 PM   #23
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Bummer I missed the pictures, guess I wait a few weeks or days to see them?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:33 PM   #24
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Where did the pics go?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:37 PM   #25
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Bummer I missed the pictures, guess I wait a few weeks or days to see them?
Darn, missed them too!

Ron
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