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Old 03-28-2012, 08:43 PM   #276
RxMPLS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky7
Wow, those mileages that are reported are nothing like what I was expecting to see. I just sold my 2010 Outback CVT that was getting FAR better mileage than this and ordered a 2012 Impreza Limited but now not so sure I made a wise choice.. The Outback had hit 39.9 on a trip with cruise set at 60, and was told these would be able to easily hit mid 40's but now sure don't look like that will happen... Will post mileage when I get the new one we traded our Forester for. The 2009 Forester averages 28-29 for us retired old folks in the slow lane with 31 on trips. Maybe made a wrong move here...
I've hit 41 on a highway trip in my Sport Limited.

I have a really hard time believing your Outback numbers when I look at the fuelly data. They're just so far outside the norm (and even outside the outliers) for that vehicle that there is almost no way that could be true, unless there was a calculation error or an issue with the gas pump not fully filling.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:25 PM   #277
thom52
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Exclamation First 5 miles ....OUCH

I finally got to borrow my wife's CVT Premium, PZEV hatch for a long freeway drive to a hike over the weekend. Our car has been notorious for bad mileage, BUT a recent visit to the dealer and insisting on a diagnostic seemed to MAYBE do a step function improvement in gas mileage, even though they claimed they didn't do anything to it. I did roll over the 1000 mile mark during this drive.

I zeroed the mpg average gauge and started out in approx 40degF morning temp, pulling out of a warm garage. Blue light went out soon after pulling out of the driveway.(verified average guage is 1.2 miles optimistic based on manual calcs on this same tank)

First 5 miles was 14-16mpg, with the efficiency gauge pegged over on the plus side (max fuel usage) even when coasting downhill, on sections that the injectors SHOULD be shut and are normally pegged the other way when the car is VERY warmed up.
The rest of the day is spent making up for that first 5 miles and probably explains why people with LONG commutes are happier than people with shorter commutes or errand runners, with this car.

I proceeded to drive the entire drive VERY carefully, even drafting cars and trucks, keeping to 64mph max and no sudden accelerations. Coasting up to stop signs from WAY back. Only about a mile from my house to the freeway. Very little non-freeway driving on this trip.

At about 8 miles I finally broke 20mpg per gauge.
At about 20 miles I was edging up above 25mpg.
At about 40 miles of freeway, the car was making up for the crappy starting mileage and a very tiny bit of "city" and getting over 30mpg.
At about 60 miles when turning off the freeway the car was doing about 33-34 mpg, dropping slightly for some 35 & 50 mph easy country roads.

After a couple hours cool down and with temps in the 50's, I did get up to 35+ mpg for the average on the way home, maybe dropping to 34 with a few 70mph stretches, but hanging at 35.1mpg as I exited the freeway. Driving the stop-go last single mile to my suburban home dropped it a suprising amount, down to almost 33.

A GREAT car for long freeway road trips and long long commutes. Its has its challenges making up for that first 5 miles "warmup" though.

It does look like the computer "diagnostic" hookup, did something to the car, IMPROVING overall gas mileage. Still not exactly kicking up my heels about its ACTUAL "City" mileage, but at least I can see some hope now of the ever increasing time they are asking for mileage break-in, and "summer gas" getting us into reasonable "mixed" mileage and awesome Freeway mileage.
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:53 AM   #278
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I had a question about the fuel efficiency gauge. When i start my car the needle is on the negative side of the gauge. Whenever I give the car gas the needle stays towards the negative side. When i let off the gas, the needle goes to the positive side of the gauge. Doesn't it mean you are saving gas when the needle is on the right side?
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:38 AM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pxpaulx View Post
Curious question to pose to everyone in this thread - does anyone reading this thread not have a PZEV engine?
Mine's not a PZEV, glad I got a non-pzev before they quit making them!
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:54 AM   #280
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Originally Posted by jparker070 View Post
I had a question about the fuel efficiency gauge. When i start my car the needle is on the negative side of the gauge. Whenever I give the car gas the needle stays towards the negative side. When i let off the gas, the needle goes to the positive side of the gauge. Doesn't it mean you are saving gas when the needle is on the right side?
The fuel efficiency gauge is kind of a moving target. The mid-point is always your current mpg average. For example, if your electronic gauge says you're averaging 32mpg, then the mid-point of the analog gauge is 32 - above and you're doing better, below worse. If your gauge said you were averaging 27, then above would be above 27, below, below 27. When you start out it'll be below mid-point due to the engine being cold/warming up. Once you've been driving a few miles it'll tend to be on the higher side; when you accelerate it'll drop below mid-point as you are using more gas.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:21 AM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thom52 View Post

It does look like the computer "diagnostic" hookup, did something to the car, IMPROVING overall gas mileage. Still not exactly kicking up my heels about its ACTUAL "City" mileage, but at least I can see some hope now of the ever increasing time they are asking for mileage break-in, and "summer gas" getting us into reasonable "mixed" mileage and awesome Freeway mileage.
It could be that a side effect of the "diagnostic" was to reset the ecu. This clears learned parameters and allows the car to relearn with a clean slate. It could be that reseting allowed the ecu to begin relearning in conditions it was more likely to face on a daily basis rather than what ever conditions it was subjected to out of the factory. Anyone can reset the ecu simply by disconnecting the battery. Please note: radio presets will also be cleared.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:46 PM   #282
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I have a non PZEV Impreza, since I'm in Canada but then again its still very wet and rainy here temperatures are under 10C. Now that you guys mention it, I do notice that it takes a little while for the CVT to "loosen up," my idle rpms drop lower and acceleration is more consistent and smoother after this happens. The car seems a bit sluggish during this period though and I also try and keep the rpms as low as possible during this time.

@79letour, damn I wish I could do that, maybe I'll go test drive again at a different dealership.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:47 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saabarupp View Post
It could be that a side effect of the "diagnostic" was to reset the ecu. This clears learned parameters and allows the car to relearn with a clean slate. It could be that reseting allowed the ecu to begin relearning in conditions it was more likely to face on a daily basis rather than what ever conditions it was subjected to out of the factory. Anyone can reset the ecu simply by disconnecting the battery. Please note: radio presets will also be cleared.
That's interesting. My car had 2 miles on the odometer when we picked it up.
It must have had a very odd and traumatic "birth" on the treadmill at the factory.:-)

Based on your comment, I wonder if it would be worthwhile for ALL owners to reset the ECU (disconnect the battery) after coddling the car for the 1000 mile break in period, so it can learn our REAL style of driving?

Just a thought.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:01 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by pkL View Post
I have a non PZEV Impreza, since I'm in Canada but then again its still very wet and rainy here temperatures are under 10C. Now that you guys mention it, I do notice that it takes a little while for the CVT to "loosen up," my idle rpms drop lower and acceleration is more consistent and smoother after this happens. The car seems a bit sluggish during this period though and I also try and keep the rpms as low as possible during this time.
For me, seems like I get better MPG by letting the car warm up until the blue light goes out + another 30 seconds or so. This reduces the amount of time you get stuck with slug mode, and seems to burn less gas than driving on a cold engine and transmission to warm things up. My PZEV CVT car really sucks down the gas unless it is warmed up, while idling doesn't seem to burn much gas at all.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:36 PM   #285
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There has been alot of talk about the impreza having bad gas mileage due to the cold temps which i agree with. DO you think the imp[reza will have similar problems when it is very hout out?
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:55 PM   #286
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After 2 days and 200 miles, I'm looking at 30.5. Not bad compared to the 19 from my '04 181,000 mile Forester.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:56 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by jparker070 View Post
There has been alot of talk about the impreza having bad gas mileage due to the cold temps which i agree with. DO you think the imp[reza will have similar problems when it is very hout out?
Not so far for me based on the mild spring we are having - I'm up at least 25%, and I'm sure gas is still a winter blend - add to the cold the fact that everyone's car is brand new, and I'd say there is a good chance this is a non-issue for most by the end of the summer.

If issues with MPG arrive next winter when cars are well broken in, I'll start heavily blaming the pzev, because it is clear to me that it runs the car much differently during warmup than a regular car (this is our 12th vehicle, none has run at such high rev for so long after the cold engine light goes out).
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:32 PM   #288
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I live in florida and have always gotten great gas mileage. Trip odo B is still the same mileage as the cars odometer and in 5000 miles my average speed is 29mph and my avg mpg is 31.7 indicated. Almost all my driving is ten miles or less. But my 5mt warms up fairly quick (seems like its quicker to watm up with the mileage on it now).
I don't think the engine is really whats needing the long break-in. I think its all the drivetrain "loosens up" a bit by 5k or so. Anyone wanting to try something to see if they notice a difference- try running Amsoil in the engine, transaxle, and rear. My car seemed to get a slight boost in mpg's when changed out all the factory filled stuff. Just my 2
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:36 PM   #289
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My pzev loaner seemed to take a good ten miles just to get all warmed up. I think I don't like pzev, glad mine was an early '12. Sucks we'll have that to deal with from now on. It seems like the oil companies are really behind the epa, as epa and fed regulations have taken away a good bit of efficiency and simplicity. I mean, car companies are building hybrids that dont really do any better than early 90's econocars, and arent nearly as fun to drive imo.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:43 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79letour
My pzev loaner seemed to take a good ten miles just to get all warmed up. I think I don't like pzev, glad mine was an early '12. Sucks we'll have that to deal with from now on. It seems like the oil companies are really behind the epa, as epa and fed regulations have taken away a good bit of efficiency and simplicity. I mean, car companies are building hybrids that dont really do any better than early 90's econocars, and arent nearly as fun to drive imo.
Tell me about it!!!! I had to get one in NY even with the pre-order.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:16 AM   #291
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Default MPG update - take it to the dealer?

I brought up my poor mpg with the dealer today - so far working hard to get 22 mpg in 60/40 city/hwy. I'm trying really hard to drive with economy in mind and finding it really hard to get close to the combined mpg. I don't expect to get exactly the combined mpg but I really think that 22 for city/hwy mix that includes nice 12 mile 60 mph stretches with no traffic ought to get me higher than 22!

I was told that some other Impreza owners had mentioned this too. I was advised that since it seemed like I'm doing my part (not trying to drive like a maniac and watching the Eco gauge) it might be a good idea to bring the car in for what he described as an "ECM Flash". He said he's seen this issue in the past with Outbacks where for whatever reason the car leaves the factory with the wrong or old "firmware".

I'll keep y'all posted but it seems like there could be a factory firmware issue out there. We will see!
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:24 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by ocellaris View Post
For me, seems like I get better MPG by letting the car warm up until the blue light goes out + another 30 seconds or so. This reduces the amount of time you get stuck with slug mode, and seems to burn less gas than driving on a cold engine and transmission to warm things up. My PZEV CVT car really sucks down the gas unless it is warmed up, while idling doesn't seem to burn much gas at all.
I asked that question in the general forum about if I should wait till the blue light goes off before driving off. I was told that this is bad for the engine and that I should only wait around 30 seconds or so before driving off, while keeping the rpms as low as possible.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1#post36600171
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:34 AM   #293
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaflipper View Post
I ......

....... it might be a good idea to bring the car in for what he described as an "ECM Flash". He said he's seen this issue in the past with Outbacks where for whatever reason the car leaves the factory with the wrong or old "firmware".

I'll keep y'all posted but it seems like there could be a factory firmware issue out there. We will see!

PLEASE keep us posted on how this works out! I am trying to prove or disprove this theory, as I would really like to find a fix for this issue, on this otherwise wonderful car. We MIGHT have gotten an inadvertant ECM flash, and it seems like it might have helped a bit. (still determining how much). Sure would be nice to discover its that simple to fix.

Then we just have to figure out how to chill out the PZEV from apparently trying to set up a nuclear fusion reaction in the catalytic converter by burning enormous amounts of gas for the first couple of miles. Futile of course, but it tries playing "the little engine that could".

At least the ECU flash might make the rest of the drive meet expectations. Keep us posted on your results!!!
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #294
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Do you guys with the CVT notice that the braking is is kind of weird when the car is cold? As in you have the brakes fully pressed down and you've come to a more or less complete stop and the car will jerk forward a bit after?
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #295
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Do you guys with the CVT notice that the braking is is kind of weird when the car is cold? As in you have the brakes fully pressed down and you've come to a more or less complete stop and the car will jerk forward a bit after?
I have noticed that as well as when its cold and I am at a stop light or stopped in general, it will give a "shudder"...similar to the jerk you mention. First time it did it I thought I got tapped from the car behind me.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:01 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by onemodog View Post
I have noticed that as well as when its cold and I am at a stop light or stopped in general, it will give a "shudder"...similar to the jerk you mention. First time it did it I thought I got tapped from the car behind me.
Does anyone have any idea what causes this, as this seems like a big enough issue, since you could potentially hit the car in front of you.
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Old 03-31-2012, 12:14 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by pkL

Does anyone have any idea what causes this, as this seems like a big enough issue, since you could potentially hit the car in front of you.
My dealer checked the brakes & said everything was okay, this is normal & all cars do it slightly when newer as air releases from the braking system as if it's settling. ??? Dunno. It's only intermittent & I just have gotten in the habit of being on high alert at red lights & keeping firm on the brake. I will say though, driving a rental car while I'm out of town, Nissan Versa w CVT & 80 degree weather here, & that car does it too with 17k miles on it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:34 AM   #298
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Originally Posted by SleepNMnky View Post
My dealer checked the brakes & said everything was okay, this is normal & all cars do it slightly when newer as air releases from the braking system as if it's settling. ??? Dunno. It's only intermittent & I just have gotten in the habit of being on high alert at red lights & keeping firm on the brake. I will say though, driving a rental car while I'm out of town, Nissan Versa w CVT & 80 degree weather here, & that car does it too with 17k miles on it.
Maybe its a CVT thing, I don't seem to recall this happening on my Sentra when I first go it. I guess it shouldn't really be an issue, since it happens after you braked and you're more or less at a complete stop.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:35 AM   #299
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Ok so I am at about 5300 miles thus far on my 2012 Impreza sport....first mpg tank was 26.3...and ever since then I have been going up about 2 mpg per fill up. I am driving about 150 miles per day for my commute between MA and NH for work. For the past 3 days I have pulled into my driveway and the trip computer has been 36.0, 36.5 and 36.1 avg mpg for my commute. Overall average on the last 3 fill ups has been 31.4, 30.7, and 31.1. I am driving about 70 to 75 mph on average on the highway when there is no traffic. During the week I am 100% highway and on weekends i am all city. I am averaging 4.4 days between fills and, although the first few weeks in the car the mpg performance was less than I expected I am now seeing some really good numbers. Keep the faith people....keep the faith!!!! By the way the mpg calls are true readings and not from the trip computer. I have found the trip computer is about 1.9 mpg higher on average than true readings.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g...520mileage.jpg

Here is the data on my car since I started tracking...
2012 Subaru Impreza: Mar 27, 2012 8:54:01 AM

Total Fuel Cost $512.50
Avg Fuel Cost $3.63 / gal
Total Distance 3583 mi
Fuel Cost $0.13 / mi


Avg fuel economy 28.0 mpg
Avg in city (est.) 28.0 mpg
Avg on highway (est.) --
Best fuel economy 31.4 mpg
Worst fuel economy 25.5 mpg
Avg for Regular 28.0 mpg


Carbon footprint 2824 lbs CO2


Total Service Cost $0.00
Service Cost $0.00 / mi


Total $0.13 / mi


Largest Fuel Fill 13.862 gal
Most Expensive Fuel $3.859 / gal
Least Expensive Fuel $3.45 / gal
Furthest Distance on 1 Fill 409.0 mi
Avg Distance Per Fill 358.3 mi
Avg Days Between Fills 4.3 days
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:34 AM   #300
PAO56
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Originally Posted by thedataman View Post
Ok so I am at about 5300 miles thus far on my 2012 Impreza sport....first mpg tank was 26.3...and ever since then I have been going up about 2 mpg per fill up. I am driving about 150 miles per day for my commute between MA and NH for work. For the past 3 days I have pulled into my driveway and the trip computer has been 36.0, 36.5 and 36.1 avg mpg for my commute. Overall average on the last 3 fill ups has been 31.4, 30.7, and 31.1. I am driving about 70 to 75 mph on average on the highway when there is no traffic. During the week I am 100% highway and on weekends i am all city. I am averaging 4.4 days between fills and, although the first few weeks in the car the mpg performance was less than I expected I am now seeing some really good numbers. Keep the faith people....keep the faith!!!! By the way the mpg calls are true readings and not from the trip computer. I have found the trip computer is about 1.9 mpg higher on average than true readings.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-g...520mileage.jpg

Here is the data on my car since I started tracking...
2012 Subaru Impreza: Mar 27, 2012 8:54:01 AM

Total Fuel Cost $512.50
Avg Fuel Cost $3.63 / gal
Total Distance 3583 mi
Fuel Cost $0.13 / mi


Avg fuel economy 28.0 mpg
Avg in city (est.) 28.0 mpg
Avg on highway (est.) --
Best fuel economy 31.4 mpg
Worst fuel economy 25.5 mpg
Avg for Regular 28.0 mpg


Carbon footprint 2824 lbs CO2


Total Service Cost $0.00
Service Cost $0.00 / mi


Total $0.13 / mi


Largest Fuel Fill 13.862 gal
Most Expensive Fuel $3.859 / gal
Least Expensive Fuel $3.45 / gal
Furthest Distance on 1 Fill 409.0 mi
Avg Distance Per Fill 358.3 mi
Avg Days Between Fills 4.3 days
all good...glad to see another long distance commuter....had my HB Limited since 17 Dec....and getting ready to roll 10K on my in the next ten days or so.....consistently getting high 30's to low 31s on the MPGs now...
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