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Old 02-06-2012, 03:15 PM   #101
a2cpc
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Oh, I thought maybe they were going to produce steam from the heat of the exhaust and use that to turn the turbine, that would create the electricity to run the turbo...
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Old 02-06-2012, 04:47 PM   #102
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:27 PM   #103
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Lets just hope they alter that artist idea and reduce the amount of ass back the car has because Subaru obviously proved the sedan body was an improvement for performance to begin with. Make it a legit coupe. a lower drag coefficient is definitely worth the lack of trunk space in a performance car.

Honestly give the car a similar hatch to the last generation Celica.

Fix the front end because it looks a bit ridiculous and AUDI inspired.

Don't put on stupidly huge impractical wheels that make the ride quality absolutely blow.

A car like this designed around a rally platform doesn't need stupidly thin sidewalls.
Have the car weigh no more than 3000 lbs max fully loaded.

No less than 280BHP.

Go back to the old brake designs of a lower grade 4 pot front 2 pot rear for the WRX and higher grade brembos for the STI. Design the brakes to not suck so bad this time around, brake fade gets old fast in a performance car.

Either get rid of the STI variant or make the WRX come with a little less power, with a 6spd and a rear LSD. Keep the other goodies in the STI drive train. just make the WRX purely a watered down version without putting utter trash in it.
Possibly incorporate paddle shifters as an option for limited models.

Obviously use a better suspension package for the STI.

At those specs the cars would stomp all over the current models. Most people will be happy. Honestly if they make the cars way too close to each other in performance value they might as well eliminate the STI and make the car completely customizable during the ordering process. give it a base price of 25k and it obviously changes as you pick and choose what you want the car set up as.


Last but not least: "Make sure the damn cars come with RECAROS FFS!"
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Old 02-06-2012, 05:31 PM   #104
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THAT Torotrak device is the principle that I have been talking about as a good companion to Turbine Compounding...

A CVT-driven supercharger. They call it an impeller... I would call it a compressor, because it compresses intake air.

I always thought of an impeller as the inverse of a 'propeller', where gas flow drives a fan/turbine, with kinetic shaft output, where a supercharger is kinetic shaft driven input, to drive airflow output.

I am going to keep my eye on this Torotrak device, it looks good.

Separating the turbine from the compressor allows each to be optimized for their conditions, independently, and I think keeping it in the kinetic energy realm, rather than converting it to electric energy and back, is a bit less vulnerable to inherent reliability issues that come with complexity.

A nice turbine with a reduction gear, or even a traction drive with inverse ratios to the Torotrak compressor would be good to recover wasted heat energy, and convert it to kinetic energy, and add it to the engine's kinetic energy output.

Using some of that summed kinetic energy to drive a supercharger, like this Torotrak device, would cater to keeping the intake charge pressurized consistently throughout the engine's RPM band, without over-pressure, or wasting turbine energy through a waste gate, to keep the compressor in check, as a normal turbo does.

As much as I would love to see a turbine compounded, supercharged boxer...

I would even more like to see a turbine compounded 16x direct injected wankel rotary, with turbine compounding.
No exhaust valve as an exhaust flow velocity obstruction. Peripheral port especially.
Lots of waste heat and volume to make good use of, due to 3 power pulses per rotor per revolution, rather than one power pulse every other piston stroke, per piston.
Very positive response to pressurized intake.
Lots of RPM range, which makes the turbine and compressor efficiencies disparate, (which is why they've used sequential staggered size turbocharging) and more advantage to separating them from each other, especially for compressor response at low engine RPMs.
Direct injection, and stratified burn technology would only help further.

Plenty of possibility without converting back and forth to and from electricity.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 02-06-2012 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 07:46 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I thought I was trying to mention before that if you're waiting for the small changes from MY2012 to MY2013 that Subaru won't tell them until right when the cars are being sold late in the year?

Go check out the "2012 WRX Changes" thread and you'll see how long it took for the changes to be confirmed. To me it's not worth the wait. Just get your 2012 and be happy (or a 2011 and be happier).

Don't worry about 2013+.
Yeah that is true they did wait forever the last time, but since I am going to be ordering it so late I might as well wait a few more weeks, gives me more time to save anyways.

Ordering a Limited and sending the headlights to Cesar at lightwerkz for something custom so the chrome headlights won't be sticking around.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:09 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lrn2Corner View Post
Lets just hope they alter that artist idea and reduce the amount of ass back the car has because Subaru obviously proved the sedan body was an improvement for performance to begin with. Make it a legit coupe. a lower drag coefficient is definitely worth the lack of trunk space in a performance car.
agree with everything you said except this.

first off, subaru will have the brz to fill the coupe nitch.

although i also like the sedan i prefer the hatch.

2012+ impreza's are designed to be slippery for mpg's, so aerodynamics should not be a big issue.

the performance difference between the two is nil, unless you're talking about 150+ mph.

if you're comparing numbers, people often compare 2008 hatch numbers to 2011 sedan numbers, not 2011 sedan vs 2011 hatch numbers. the cars have received various updates over the years.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
!!!Rumor Starting ALERT!!!

Maybe the second one from the left was a stealth mule for the next WRX/STI...



It has a pretty long nose
Tall roof line too. Maybe it is the BRZ-based RWD "sedan" variant that was mentioned in one of the car news magazine articles that I read.
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Old 02-08-2012, 05:26 PM   #108
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Good grief, why would Subaru build a RWD tiny sedan? Doesn't that start to defeat the purpose of a minimalist sport coupe by adding length and weight?

If you want practicality, what is wrong with Subaru's AWD sedans?

Leave the RWD sedans to other brands... as I said about the FT-86 when I found out that IT was going to be RWD-only. At least it had purity of purpose, even if sold as a Toyota or Scion, and that purity of purpose is still there in the BRZ, even if it doesn't exactly keep a united front with the rest of Subaru's lineup.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #109
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Got to go with Hip on this one.
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Old 02-08-2012, 10:12 PM   #110
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who in the world said anything about a RWD Subaru sedan? Stop feeding HTBS please.
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Old 02-08-2012, 11:22 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_wagon View Post
Tall roof line too. Maybe it is the BRZ-based RWD "sedan" variant that was mentioned in one of the car news magazine articles that I read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
who in the world said anything about a RWD Subaru sedan? Stop feeding HTBS please.
The defense rests. Nothing further, SoDealer.
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Old 02-09-2012, 12:10 AM   #112
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It is perfectly obvious that purpose of that picture is to show the evolution of the BRZ's development. Who on earth with any credibility stated Subaru was building a RWD sedan? Why would you even entertain a rant on such a notion?
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:08 AM   #113
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I didn't comment on the picture today, I spoke about that picture before, and said the same thing you did, that it was an FT-86 drivetrain mule, nothing more.

Forget the picture, it is discounted.

The comment below the picture, asserts that a car news magazine that sir_wagon read had mentioned a Subaru BRZ-based RWD "sedan".

I didn't say it was fact, I don't know that it is or isn't credible, but sir_wagon put forward that it is rumored.

I absolutely hope it is unfounded, and previously gave my reasons why I disagree with that premise, and think it is a bad idea.

Ask sir_wagon for the source, he mentioned it. I responded to the mere mention of it.
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Old 02-09-2012, 02:30 AM   #114
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But if they added two doors they could market the BRZ/sedan like an RX-8 guize! :trollolololololololol:
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Old 04-03-2012, 01:13 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_wagon View Post
Tall roof line too. Maybe it is the BRZ-based RWD "sedan" variant that was mentioned in one of the car news magazine articles that I read.
Im thinking its the wrx the body lines are too different. Maybe
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:05 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dat8687 View Post
Im thinking its the wrx the body lines are too different. Maybe
No.. seriously.. from left to right,
  1. The original FT-86 mule based off the Legacy (spy shots from early summer of 2009):


  2. The FT-86 mule based off of the 2008 Impreza (spy shots from early fall of 2009):


    (seen here at the Nurburgring)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus
    That's a stock 2.5i Impreza hood. It isn't any longer than it would be on the Impreza. The difference is that the wheel wells have been pushed forward significantly so that the wheel is into the space where the side vents are on the STI.

    Stock 2.5i Hood
    GR front bumper.
    Impreza headlights.
    GR fenders modified for forward wheel placement.
    Impreza sedan roofline.
    Elongated doors (B pillar moved rearward).
    Rear subframe moved forward.
    Trunk chopped.


    Looks don't matter. Placement of wheels in relation to firewall does, however.

    My guess, regarding the front brakes, is that they're using the front hubs on opposite sides of the car to test out the steering rack being mounted behind the front axle rather than in front of it.
  3. The FT-86 pre-production car seen at the Nurburgring and at testing areas all over the world.
  4. The production BRZ.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:30 PM   #117
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Ok, sorry to get off topic, but I've been dying to post this somewhere.

I am currently deciding whether to wait for a 2013, or buy a 2012 (I know there is already a post on this so don't rip my head of just yet, I decided to post this here so I am not reviving an archaic thread)

First off, with so little that is about the WRX from Subaru or FHI, I don't think the 2013 is going to be redesigned. Do I hope that it will be redesigned? More than anything, as the new stuff is always awesome.

(On a side note with everything coming from motor trend and other sources I think they might release the WRX as a 2014 and the STi as a 2015 because they might need more time to upgrade the interior and other things. They might take it in a M3/C63 AMG direction.)

So I have decided to wait until the NYIAS and if there isn't anything there about the new WRX (or even hints about it) then ill go order a 2012. Anyone think I should do different?

For a 2013, however, I think they could add something, (like they added an Alpine subwoofer option for the 2012) but I do not think it will amount to what I am looking for.

What I am looking for, and what I believe that Subaru SHOULD include on the redesign (based on what is already in the competitive market ex. Hyundai Genesis or MS3) would be as follows:

Push button start/Keyless entry system
Better stereo/head unit
Upgraded materials in interior
Turn signals on mirrors
LED/DRL strips
SAME COST

(I realize the competition I listed may not have as sophisticated awd systems or other stuff that the WRX does have)
These are a few that I would like, and I don't think that it would be too much to ask for or add much weight (to keep the hardcore speed lovers happy).

I am one of the few on this forum that doesn't have anything planned in terms of aftermarket performance upgrades. I would much rather have a little more put into the interior than a ton of stock performance modifications. Some may say that I'm looking for a different car, but I love the performance and the AWD of the Subaru so much, I'm not willing to switch. So my next hope is just a better interior on the next model.

I know this is lengthy and very jumbled, but I tried to get my point across.

P.S. The BRZ was at NYIAS last year and it wasn't announced by Subaru. There is still hope.

P.S.S. - Anyone can chime in at any time telling me Im wrong and there is going to be a redesign for the 2013 WRX
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:55 PM   #118
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There may be a concept of something at NYIAS, but I highly, HIGHLY doubt there will be anything that will be production-ready for the fall, aside from the minor facelift of the Legacy/Outback, and the tall-Impreza XV Crosstrek model.

For introduced production cars, 12 Impreza was new this last year, '13 BRZ is even newer for this year. Forester is due out in 18 months as a 2014 model.

There could be a swan-song SH Forester and GR-based WRX/STI for 2013, possibly some sort of enticement bone thrown to Forester and WRX/STI to sell some '13s before the '14 replacements, but not entirely certain, and it probably won't be anything remotely fundamental of a change. In the past, they simply added the full color palette, sans Newport Blue, and Tribeca's BIU/ECU with memory seats (something lesser Legacys and Outback trim lines didn't have, and IIRC couldn't be retrofitted with), to the 2009 Legacy GT Spec.B and 3.0R Limited top-end models, as a swan-song before the '10 Legacy re-design. Not much, but a little bit of something.

As for show-car concepts, Legacy concept, and Impreza Design Concept were introduced at NYIAS 3 years ago, and 2 years ago, respectively, IIRC.

Last year at NYIAS, FR-S concept was debuted, after the 2nd FT-86 Toyota-branded concept debuted at last-year's Geneva show in Europe. The Subaru chassis exhibit was painted gold, instead of previously silver. The BRZ appearance didn't come out till later in the fall of 2011.

It is possible that there might be a concept... but it wouldn't surprise me if it is an iteration of the Hybrid Tourer Concept, or something that isn't directly production bound, but showing trends for future models, and probably highlighting Subaru's hybrid drive... yet again, after Hybrid Tourer Concept recently, and B5-TPH several years ago showed hybrid-powered concepts.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-03-2012 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #119
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IF they do move to some kind of electric turbo I wouldn't invest in the first year. Common sense says unless you are an early adopter, always stay away from the first version of...well...anything. I have a 2011 so it will be a few years until I trade it in and by then the kinks should be worked out.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:49 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnforcerPSU View Post
IF they do move to some kind of electric turbo I wouldn't invest in the first year. Common sense says unless you are an early adopter, always stay away from the first version of...well...anything. I have a 2011 so it will be a few years until I trade it in and by then the kinks should be worked out.
From what I've been told, from an enthusiast's point-of-view, the 2005 Legacy GT is the most preferred GT, so I don't think the sense is all that common.

Besides that, I agree. I think it depends on the changes. Something like an electric turbo from Subaru would definitely not be something I would be a guinea pig for. haha
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:03 PM   #121
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NYIAS will 100% not have any WRX action besides a 2012 to sit inside.

2013 is about:
XV Crosstrek
Leg/Ob facelift
BRZ
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:06 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatesan3 View Post
Ok, sorry to get off topic, but I've been dying to post this somewhere.

I am currently deciding whether to wait for a 2013, or buy a 2012 (I know there is already a post on this so don't rip my head of just yet, I decided to post this here so I am not reviving an archaic thread)

First off, with so little that is about the WRX from Subaru or FHI, I don't think the 2013 is going to be redesigned. Do I hope that it will be redesigned? More than anything, as the new stuff is always awesome.

(On a side note with everything coming from motor trend and other sources I think they might release the WRX as a 2014 and the STi as a 2015 because they might need more time to upgrade the interior and other things. They might take it in a M3/C63 AMG direction.)

So I have decided to wait until the NYIAS and if there isn't anything there about the new WRX (or even hints about it) then ill go order a 2012. Anyone think I should do different?

For a 2013, however, I think they could add something, (like they added an Alpine subwoofer option for the 2012) but I do not think it will amount to what I am looking for.

What I am looking for, and what I believe that Subaru SHOULD include on the redesign (based on what is already in the competitive market ex. Hyundai Genesis or MS3) would be as follows:

Push button start/Keyless entry system
Better stereo/head unit
Upgraded materials in interior
Turn signals on mirrors
LED/DRL strips
SAME COST

(I realize the competition I listed may not have as sophisticated awd systems or other stuff that the WRX does have)
These are a few that I would like, and I don't think that it would be too much to ask for or add much weight (to keep the hardcore speed lovers happy).

I am one of the few on this forum that doesn't have anything planned in terms of aftermarket performance upgrades. I would much rather have a little more put into the interior than a ton of stock performance modifications. Some may say that I'm looking for a different car, but I love the performance and the AWD of the Subaru so much, I'm not willing to switch. So my next hope is just a better interior on the next model.

I know this is lengthy and very jumbled, but I tried to get my point across.

P.S. The BRZ was at NYIAS last year and it wasn't announced by Subaru. There is still hope.

P.S.S. - Anyone can chime in at any time telling me Im wrong and there is going to be a redesign for the 2013 WRX
I believe you only have until the end of this month to place an order for the 2012 model, so if you wish to order a 2012 model you have little time to do so. The only reason I know this is because I have been contemplating the same thing.

I talked to someone at a local Subaru dealership and spoke to a representative of Subaru of America over the phone, and while nothing has been 100% confirmed, there is a 99.9% chance that the 2013 WRX model will be the same as the 2011/2012.

If you do not need to get a car right away, I would recommend waiting until at least this fall to order a 2013 model. I have decided that this is what I am going to do, and will likely order my 2013 this coming November or December.

Also, depending on what kind of quotes you get from the dealerships, it might be worth looking into the Subaru VIP program, as you are guaranteed to get at least 2% off invoice after six months of membership (which cost $30 for the international mountain bike association, though there are many more subaru vip affiliated programs to choose from).

Another thing is by waiting to order a 2013 model, you should get to see what the next generation will look like.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #123
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I thought it was common knowledge that the 2013 WRX/STi will very much be like the 2012 models. Perhaps some extra amenities as standard but likely those can be added afterwards anyways. If you can wait, wait. If you can't, or are not sure if there will be big fabulous news, well I don't think you will disappointed by buying now.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #124
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For the record, I'm at the NY auto show this week and the current WRX/STI aren't even on the show floor. Wondering for how much longer they'll be producing 'em...
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by TimStevens View Post
For the record, I'm at the NY auto show this week and the current WRX/STI aren't even on the show floor. Wondering for how much longer they'll be producing 'em...
Well that is disappointing news. I'm following the auto show closely waiting to hear any news.
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