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Old 04-05-2012, 10:53 AM   #1
Viral E
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Default Stock EJ22E Turbo setup

So, since my S/C idea isn't really panning out too well, I'm looking into a turbo setup for the 2.2

Now I've heard all sorts of arguments involving turboing a 2.2, both success stories and warnings, and frankly I feel that I have a good chance of running a low-moderate amount of boost (about 6-8 PSI).

I've run some calculations with the following (-)assumptions/(*)facts:

*1999 Subaru Impreza L Sport Wagon w/ 1995 Legacy 2.2 Engine (Phase 1 w/ Hydraulic Lifters and SOHC cams) with red injectors (not sure if they're stock)... car needs a tune badly.
*APEXi Intake with Ceramic coated intake pipe
*No IACV
*2.75" Catback Exhaust with Magnaflow Twintip muffler AND Borla UEL Headers
*Vishnu Underdrive Lightweight Crank Pulley
- Assuming a 90% N/A Volumetric efficiency for my engine (which may or may not be accurate given the current mods/age of the engine)
- Assuming 2212 cc engine size
- Assuming 9.5:1 CR Stock
- Assuming 1 lb/min = 14.47 CFM (at STP)
- Assuming 0.028 m^3/min = 1 CFM (at STP)

Peak HP CFM = 204
Peak Torque CFM = 170
Corrected HP CFM (8PSI) = 350
Corrected HP CFM (6PSI) = 319
Corrected Torque CFM (8PSI) = 290
Corrected Torque CFM (6PSI) = 264

Pressure Ratio (8PSI) = 1.71-1.72 approx.
Pressure Ratio (6PSI) = 1.56-1.57 approx.

Given these calculations I need to find a pretty small turbo... Most of the turbos I've seen don't come even close to having peak efficiency even near 1.5 or 1.7 at 264-350 CFM (18.2-24.5 lb/min).

I'll be pushing about 230 HP with this setup at 8PSI... Needless to say I'd be MORE than pleased with that amount of power considering my current clutch setup is only rated to about 260 HP so I'd be cutting it close at 8 PSI. I'll also be replacing gaskets/seals, porting the heads, and getting the cams ground by Delta if I can while I rip the block apart.

Anybody know of a turbo map that will fit well to my car's specs? Honestly, I want a smaller turbo. I'm not looking for a huge amount of boost (10 PSI is about as far as I'll go at any time) and lag is something I want to avoid as much as possible. Also, what other things would I require for a turbo setup on this engine?

I wish I knew more about this topic...

Also: Understand that the reason I want to do this is not just for the power, bragging rights, sound, etc... it's to learn. I'm a hands-on person so if you're going to tell me to just do a front end swap with a WRX, don't bother. I know it will cost more to do this. I'm also learning more, which to me is worth it.
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Last edited by Viral E; 04-05-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:44 PM   #2
Ioku
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I'm currently running the same engine as your planning phase 1 2.2 with hydro roller rockers and duel port exhaust, and I did a miner port clean up job. For your turbo I'd recommend a VF11 off an older turbo legacy, I'm using one and love it, very fast spool up, almost difficult to stay out of boost, and they have a 5 psi stock waste gate to give a safe base line to start with. I'd also recommend getting injectors off the same car, those red ones you have wont flow enough I think there 280cc but the turbo Legacy one are 370cc.

Also make sure you use a good MLS head gasket, I had some crapy graphite ones and they went out after about 5k, some arp head studs would help too for some extra insurance.

In the end I could have done a WRX swap and then some, but like you said the learning experience is worth it and now I'm better prepared to do my next build.

If you want any more info on my build see here http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t14393...ct-ej22et.html
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:49 AM   #3
Viral E
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Thanks so much for the info I'll look into bigger injectors and perhaps run meth injection/IC sprayers, grinded Delta cams, and an upgraded STi fuel pump (which I already have) with my setup to run a little more boost with less chance of knock. I think I'm going to stick with a TD04 from an old WRX, but that's only because I may be replacing internals at some point and will be running a slightly higher boost.

Thanks for the suggestion with the headgasket and studs! I didn't even think about that It's information like that that will hopefully save me a future headache.

Does anybody have suggestions for tuning the timing/AFR/density? Should I go standalone? Piggyback like an accessport? I think the 99 ECU is OBDII, is it not?
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:24 PM   #4
amoore131
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With that low of boost you probably won't need larger injectors or EM but it doesn't hurt if you want to dial in the setup and run more boost.

There are tons of turbo threads on rs25. Here's a good one

http://www.rs25.com/forums/f7/t10779...arts-list.html
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:44 PM   #5
Viral E
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Well, it can never hurt to get bigger injectors -- to a point anyways.

And I'm getting EM because the car runs like shi- er... it runs poorly at the moment given it's current mods. It needs a tune badly. I may try standalone and have it professionally tuned since I have NO idea how to tune anything other than a single-cylinder 2stroke B&S with microsquirt, and even that i know how to do minimally.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:24 PM   #6
amoore131
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I'd look into an Apexi SAFC
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:06 PM   #7
Viral E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoore131 View Post
I'd look into an Apexi SAFC
Just a piggyback? Will it allow me to adjust the already screwed up injector cycle? (My injectors don't match my ECU and I've heard this can create bogging/sputtering issues due to the injectors not firing in the same way as the ECU dictates-- which my car has such issues )

See, I'm rather dubious about this because I would think standalone/replacement EM would help me much more in the long run... especially with everything I plan on doing to the car.

...

Though I'll admit the SAFC looks pretty freaking cool
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:31 AM   #8
Ioku
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The SAFC is very basic, I have one, all it dose is control fueling by tricking the ECU it can get you by, but if you have the money go for something better. I've heard good things about the emanage ultimate, thinking of getting one.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:26 PM   #9
amoore131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viral E View Post
Just a piggyback? Will it allow me to adjust the already screwed up injector cycle? (My injectors don't match my ECU and I've heard this can create bogging/sputtering issues due to the injectors not firing in the same way as the ECU dictates-- which my car has such issues )

See, I'm rather dubious about this because I would think standalone/replacement EM would help me much more in the long run... especially with everything I plan on doing to the car.

...

Though I'll admit the SAFC looks pretty freaking cool
For this setup it sounds like what you need if you want to skip paying for a protune and expensive EM. It controls the air intake which will adjust your fuel intake. Should be perfect for a low boost setup and it's really easy to wire in.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:10 PM   #10
Viral E
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Did a cost analysis on this project... what do you guys think?



Total LOW Cost -- $1110
Total HIGH Cost -- $2145

Sounds reasonable?
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:28 AM   #11
ChicksDigWagons
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New Turbo Project...

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My 2c after being there and doing that.

My turbo car ran best on stock injectors and 7psi vs larger injectors, 12psi, and an Apexi S-AFC. The stock injectors were something like 220cc Grey Tops, and the injectors I upgraded to were 370cc Pink Tops. Big jump in size percentage wise.

The AFC sorta kinda worked, but my mileage sucked, never ran quite right. If I was doing it again (which I kind of am), I'd go straight to stand-alone. Even if it was just Megasquirt. Which I think could be made to be plug and play with the stock wiring.

I used a custom uppipe and downpipe on a TD-04. Didn't require a crossmember swap. Bolted right to the stock header. Still have the up and downpipe if you're interested.

I also used a stock Bugeye WRX intercooler, which just barely fits.

Overall, it was a successful project and I was happy with it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:31 AM   #12
ChicksDigWagons
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Double post!
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:20 PM   #13
Viral E
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Thanks for the info! I'll keep all of that in mind PM sent about the up/downpipe
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Old 04-18-2012, 04:51 PM   #14
Viral E
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More math!

Assuming I can get my hands on ej22t pistons my CR will reduce to ~8.0:1 ... using a thicker headgasket I'm looking at around 7.85:1 on the stock block. I dinked around with a couple of equations and found my ECR at 12 PSI will be about 10.7:1 -- Well below the commonly thought of max of 12:1 on pump gas.

sqrt((boost+14.7)/14.7) * CR = ECR
sqrt((12+14.7)/14.7) * 8.0 = 10.72

-- definitely low enough for pump gas (even perhaps a little less than premium if I felt like it).

If I can't get the pistons... my CR is 9.5 (phase 1 ej22) but will probably sit around 9.4 with the thicker HG. This'll put me at 12.67... Yikes, that's a little high even with an intercooler, IC sprayer, and meth injection.

sqrt((12+14.7)/14.7) * 9.4 = 12.67

So to put it lightly I think I'm going to want the ej22t pistons if I can dig them up anywhere. And better gaskets.

I also figure that a td04 is indeed in my future since the vf11 "becomes a hairdryer" at 9-11 PSI according to the NASIOC crowd.

So i guess my original estimations were wrong, and I'm really looking at running higher boost than I thought. With the stronger pistons (thicker ringlands and moly coating) and maybe a trip to get some forged steel rods and a conservative tune, I should have a pretty good shot at running 12 PSI on this thing.

Thoughts?
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:58 AM   #15
ChicksDigWagons
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Low compression pistons are really the fundamental difference between the N/A and turbo motors, so yes, that makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't bother shooting any lower than 8:1 though.

16psi on a TD04 with EJ22t pistons would be a real nice setup.

Another option is to swap DOHC heads and intake. That drops you down a few compression points (~9.0-9.2:1 I think, 46cc/49cc chambers). Not nearly as much as the turbo pistons, but it's not a bad way to go.

Also, I do have THREE EJ22t pistons if you can find a fourth!
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:29 AM   #16
Viral E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicksDigWagons View Post

Also, I do have THREE EJ22t pistons if you can find a fourth!


It's never easy ... haha
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Old 04-27-2012, 06:18 AM   #17
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subscribed!! You have any pics? would love to see...

ChicksDigWagons,you have a journal of you wagon build? Im still between the fence on doing a ej22e Boosted or wrx swap.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:03 AM   #18
ChicksDigWagons
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dub81 View Post
subscribed!! You have any pics? would love to see...

ChicksDigWagons,you have a journal of you wagon build? Im still between the fence on doing a ej22e Boosted or wrx swap.
Not to detract from Viral's thread...

I did for my original 1997 Turbo OBS back in 2003 (should fix the pics): http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397131

My new 1998 wagon, I bought in 2008, and it's sat in storage since then. I think this year is the year though!

As for EJ22e+t vs WRX swap. Dollar for Dollar, the EJ22 swap is going to be the best bang for the buck. And best of all, you can reuse all of the parts from the EJ22 turbo project to bolt onto a EJ20 swap down the road.
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