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Old 04-07-2012, 01:00 AM   #1
joker11
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Default Rotella T6, German Castrol, or Mobil 1

Im trying to decide between the Rotella T6 5W-40, German Castrol 0W-30, and the Mobil 1 0W-40. These three seem to be the popular ones around here, play well with subies, and produce good UOA results. All three are readily available to me, with the Rotella being the cheapest, the GC about $15 more per oil change and the Mobil 1 costing about right in between the two.

I had a WRX for three years and always used the GC and had good results...didn't use it up too much, and the car ran fine. Although, I never got a UOA so I guess I don't really know how good it really was. I just recently bought a newer WRX with a lot less miles and I want to take as good of care for this car as I can.

I was thinking about going to a more "heavy duty" 40W oil. But I've never had any problems with the GC, and also I'm a little nervous that the Rotella doesn't have the proper API service rating for our subies and is more of a diesel oil....but I read that doesn't matter I guess.

I'm sure I'm just being anal or paranoid about this because any three of these oils will do a great job from what I have read...just looking for some advice, thanks!
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:05 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker11 View Post
Im trying to decide between the Rotella T6 5W-40, German Castrol 0W-30, and the Mobil 1 0W-40. These three seem to be the popular ones around here, play well with subies, and produce good UOA results. All three are readily available to me, with the Rotella being the cheapest, the GC about $15 more per oil change and the Mobil 1 costing about right in between the two.

I had a WRX for three years and always used the GC and had good results...didn't use it up too much, and the car ran fine. Although, I never got a UOA so I guess I don't really know how good it really was. I just recently bought a newer WRX with a lot less miles and I want to take as good of care for this car as I can.

I was thinking about going to a more "heavy duty" 40W oil. But I've never had any problems with the GC, and also I'm a little nervous that the Rotella doesn't have the proper API service rating for our subies and is more of a diesel oil....but I read that doesn't matter I guess.

I'm sure I'm just being anal or paranoid about this because any three of these oils will do a great job from what I have read...just looking for some advice, thanks!
You had to choose these three to decide between... The M1 0w40 is the on the lower end of these 3 oils but still good. Since you want to use a good oil and get good protection, then I would suggest going with the shell T-6 5w40 because it is cheaper and easy to get. I am over in CDA and I run the T-6 5w40 in my 96 impreza 2.2 and it loves it so I do have some experience with it The shell T-6 cleans the engine quite well because of the extra additives which is good, but the oil analysis's that have been posted and the great results people are seeing out weigh any problem about this oil not being certified and being used in a gasoline engine.

If you want to meet up sometime and talk that would be fine as well

Last edited by subi400; 04-07-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 10:10 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker11
Im trying to decide between the Rotella T6 5W-40, German Castrol 0W-30, and the Mobil 1 0W-40. These three seem to be the popular ones around here, play well with subies, and produce good UOA results. All three are readily available to me, with the Rotella being the cheapest, the GC about $15 more per oil change and the Mobil 1 costing about right in between the two.

I had a WRX for three years and always used the GC and had good results...didn't use it up too much, and the car ran fine. Although, I never got a UOA so I guess I don't really know how good it really was. I just recently bought a newer WRX with a lot less miles and I want to take as good of care for this car as I can.

I was thinking about going to a more "heavy duty" 40W oil. But I've never had any problems with the GC, and also I'm a little nervous that the Rotella doesn't have the proper API service rating for our subies and is more of a diesel oil....but I read that doesn't matter I guess.

I'm sure I'm just being anal or paranoid about this because any three of these oils will do a great job from what I have read...just looking for some advice, thanks!
If you're comparing API specs, GC is API SL, RT6 is API SM, and M1 0W-40 is API SN. The operating temp the M1 is a little thicker than GC and RT6 is the thickest between the three. M1 has a bit more anti wear additives than GC and has a lot of calcium for a detergent/dispersant whereas RT6 and GC use less calcium and more magnesium as a detergent. Any one of them would be a good choice IMO but none are "API SM/SN 5W-30".

RT6.

M1 0W-40.

GC.

-Dennis
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:23 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
If you're comparing API specs, GC is API SL, RT6 is API SM, and M1 0W-40 is API SN. The operating temp the M1 is a little thicker than GC and RT6 is the thickest between the three. M1 has a bit more anti wear additives than GC and has a lot of calcium for a detergent/dispersant whereas RT6 and GC use less calcium and more magnesium as a detergent. Any one of them would be a good choice IMO but none are "API SM/SN 5W-30".

RT6.

M1 0W-40.

GC.

-Dennis

Awesome! Thanks for the info. So I'm guessing that the two additives, calcium and magnesium are two different ways of doing the same thing, and no reason to pick one over the other. And the most current API service rating is SN, and the only one of the three that supports that is the Mobil 1, so I wouldn't say it's the best oil but the most "up to date", correct?

I see that the Mobil 1 has a higher TBN...does that just mean it has more additives then the other two? That must be the anit-wear additives that your talking about. Ive got about 87K miles on my car, maybe the M1 would be a good choice for a higher milage car like mine? As far as the operating thickness goes, you say (or Blackstone says) that the RT6 is the thickest of the three, is there is there any pros or cons with going to a thicker operating oil? I guess you would want a thicker oil (RT6) for a daily driver, and a thinner oil (GC) for a race car?

Also is cold weather start-up something to be concerned about? Like on those 20-30 degree mornings would the RT6 force my Subaru oil filter into bypass mode until the oil gets up to temp?

Thanks for your help with my obsession with this subject. This is something I like to do with my car..."over research" the stuff I do to it, and it's nice to find some people with some knowledge on what ever mod or maintenance I am focused on. Like you said I'm sure any three of these oils is a good choice and will do an excellent job!
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:43 PM   #5
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TBN gives you an indication of an oil's ability to continue to neutralize acids over the interval.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

High TBN's are good but that doesn't automatically mean that a high TBN will be retained throughout the interval. Some may start high and drop quickly while others start low and drop slowly.

The first numbers are measured at -30C and -35C.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm
If you want to compare actual thickness at a given temperature, look up the viscosity at 100C and 40C and plug them into a viscosity calculator.

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 04-07-2012 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #6
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I go with the rotella, my car eats Mobil 1
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:51 PM   #7
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i was using rotella in my vf forester xt and i would have to add oil in between changes.i switched to amsoil and havent had to add yet. rotella is cheap though.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavid2002
I go with the rotella, my car eats Mobil 1
You've tried Mobil1 0W-40?

-Dennis
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spec_bg
i was using rotella in my vf forester xt and i would have to add oil in between changes.i switched to amsoil and havent had to add yet. rotella is cheap though.
Which Amsoil? DEO 5W-40?

-Dennis
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:39 PM   #10
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did we REALLY need another bloody bleeding oil thread?

i mean...there are already thousands of these here that have all the necessary information in them already.....wtf is so wrong here???

ALL of this has been discussed, here, weekly or more frequently, for the last several years

thousands of threads.....already.....
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
did we REALLY need another bloody bleeding oil thread?

i mean...there are already thousands of these here that have all the necessary information in them already.....wtf is so wrong here???

ALL of this has been discussed, here, weekly or more frequently, for the last several years

thousands of threads.....already.....
OP asked a coherent (that counts for something BIG on NASIOC), well thought-out question about 5W-40 oils that lead to a discussion I've learned from.

What's the problem?
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:55 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
did we REALLY need another bloody bleeding oil thread?

i mean...there are already thousands of these here that have all the necessary information in them already.....wtf is so wrong here???

ALL of this has been discussed, here, weekly or more frequently, for the last several years

thousands of threads.....already.....
At least the OP had 3 great oils to choose from...haha...
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:17 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker11
Also is cold weather start-up something to be concerned about?
I was told numerous times it shouldn't be a problem, but I am also thinking it could get a little thick on those super cold mornings.

I'm talking about temperatures of 15 degrees Fahrenheit and below. PA is wild!
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Old 04-08-2012, 03:49 AM   #14
subi400
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Originally Posted by ManualOverAuto View Post
I was told numerous times it shouldn't be a problem, but I am also thinking it could get a little thick on those super cold mornings.

I'm talking about temperatures of 15 degrees Fahrenheit and below. PA is wild!
The shell T-6 5w40 is good to at least -40 degrees so you should be fine.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #15
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I've used it in my 2001 Audi A4 1.8t with good results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
You've tried Mobil1 0W-40?

-Dennis
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAZYHAWK
I've used it in my 2001 Audi A4 1.8t with good results.
I've used it as well. If the OP has questions about a particular viscosity, replies are a bit more helpful if they have to do with the same viscosity and not just the same brand.

-Dennis
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I've used it as well. If the OP has questions about a particular viscosity, replies are a bit more helpful if they have to do with the same viscosity and not just the same brand.

-Dennis
Agreed. Previous to looking into oils and the info in this thread, I thought a brand had the same quality across all different viscosity's....but a Mobil 1 5W-30 is very different from a Mobil 1 0W-40 apparently.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker11

Agreed. Previous to looking into oils and the info in this thread, I thought a brand had the same quality across all different viscosity's....but a Mobil 1 5W-30 is very different from a Mobil 1 0W-40 apparently.
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
API SN/SM/SL/SJ
ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4
Nissan GT-R

Mobil 1 0W-40 has the following builder approvals:
MB-Approval 229.3
MB-Approval 229.5
BMW LONGLIFE OIL 01
VW 502 00/505 00
PORSCHE A40

Mobil 1 5W-30 meets or exceeds the requirements of:
ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5
API SN, SM, SL,SJ
ILSAC GF-5
Ford WSS-M2C946-A

Mobil 1 5W-30 has the following builder approvals:
General Motors Service Fill dexos1™ (license number GB1A0915015)
Honda / Acura

GC

API SL/SJ
ACEA A3

BMW Longlife 01
Mercedes-Benz 229.1
Mercedes-Benz 229.3
Mercedes-Benz 229.5
VW 505.00
VW 502.00

RT6

API : CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF
API : SM, SL, SJ, SH
ACEA : E9
Caterpillar: ECF-3, ECF-2
Cummins; CES 20081
DDC: 93K218
Ford : WSS-M2C171-E
JASO: DH2, MA
MACK: EO-O Premium Plus
MB Approval: 228.31
Volvo VDS-4

Last edited by bluesubie; 04-08-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManualOverAuto View Post
I was told numerous times it shouldn't be a problem, but I am also thinking it could get a little thick on those super cold mornings.

I'm talking about temperatures of 15 degrees Fahrenheit and below. PA is wild!
d000000000000d...you...like thousands and millions of others out there have NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER about what those funny little oil numbers mean

this is one of the BIGGEST issues that I see here...yet is it quite simple, really

even grade school children can comprehend it......

why do so many here not even think of just looking these simple things up so that it does not cause them so much confusion


bloody hell.....do I buy crisco or wesson??

I think I need a shot of canola
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
d000000000000d...you...like thousands and millions of others out there have NO IDEA WHAT SO EVER about what those funny little oil numbers mean

this is one of the BIGGEST issues that I see here...yet is it quite simple, really

even grade school children can comprehend it......

why do so many here not even think of just looking these simple things up so that it does not cause them so much confusion


bloody hell.....do I buy crisco or wesson??

I think I need a shot of canola
the search results are full of threads with you screaming "search noob!" as the first post in them. quit pissing on every thread if you have nothing but a bad attitude to bring to the table. if you see a stupid thread, dont click moron.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:37 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
the search results are full of threads with you screaming "search noob!" as the first post in them. quit pissing on every thread if you have nothing but a bad attitude to bring to the table. if you see a stupid thread, dont click moron.
d000000000d...i'll say it one more ****ing time.....

use the search function and READ for a few minutes...or an hour

at SOME point the spoon feeding HAS to stop

so shut it and put the spoon down
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty

d000000000d...i'll say it one more ****ing time.....

use the search function and READ for a few minutes...or an hour

at SOME point the spoon feeding HAS to stop

so shut it and put the spoon down
This dude is the reason I am starting to hate the people of nasioc this thred was going fine till you chimed it beat it bro you have nothing useful to say. They should start a troll section and you can all go nuts and troll together. Haha
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:12 AM   #23
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Thanks for the info BlueSubie! Looks like the only certification that can be directly tied to Subaru vehicles is the API service classification correct? Which would be anything with am SM rating. If someone chose an oil with a newer SN rating would that be considered a better oil? According to this description it sound like it might be something good.

"API SN Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource
Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing
fuels up to E85.



Or just have a broader range of vehicles that it could be classified for? I see all of he European manufacture approvals in there (ACEA, BMW, MB, VW, Porche). Also the heavy duty ones like Cummins and Caterpillar, are these any indication of a quality oil?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joker11
Thanks for the info BlueSubie! Looks like the only certification that can be directly tied to Subaru vehicles is the API service classification correct? Which would be anything with am SM rating. If someone chose an oil with a newer SN rating would that be considered a better oil? According to this description it sound like it might be something good.

"API SN Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource
Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control system compatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing
fuels up to E85.

Or just have a broader range of vehicles that it could be classified for? I see all of he European manufacture approvals in there (ACEA, BMW, MB, VW, Porche). Also the heavy duty ones like Cummins and Caterpillar, are these any indication of a quality oil?
Yes, the only thing tied to Subaru's is the API classification but the owner's manual is also tied to 5W-30. IMO, these are recommendations but dealer and SoA interpretations may vary (my disclaimer).

With all of the focus the past year on GF-5 the past year, I don't recall all of the changes to API SN alone. The changes for SN were probably similar to GF5 but SN doesn't put limits on phosphorus (part of ZDDP). I do know that M1 0W-40 was tweaked a bit when it was reformulated to SN. Viscosity at 100C lowered but HTHS was increased, IIRC. The good thing about 40 grades, IMO, is that they are not GF5. Yes, your turbo may be cleaner using GF5 but there were no changes for wear control. http://www.gf-5.com/the_story/performance/ So your turbo will be clean when you spin a bearing. j/k.

The good thing IMO about Euro oils is that in addition to ACEA A3 requirements to shear stability, the manufacture specs are also pretty stringent. No GF5 oil will meet Euro requirements because GF5 oils are pretty much designed to shear after use for fuel economy. Although it's not meant to be taken to literally (see disclaimer on the first page) is tool is pretty interesting to compare different specs.
http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd...l/default.html

-Dennis
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:19 PM   #25
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The self-proclaimed Uncle Scotty is nothing more than a forum troll loser with nothing better to do than flame people for asking reasonable questions about topics that aren't always returned in google or forum searches. He's a great example of why NASIOC gets a bad rap for flaming.
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