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Old 04-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #26
NoGraffix
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The late spool is my only concern with this turbo. I'd like to see how it does on a 2.5L. In my opinion it seems like the 68hta still out does this turbo. It spools much sooner, makes similar power, and will likely be about the same price.

Any thoughts on that?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:07 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGraffix View Post
The late spool is my only concern with this turbo. I'd like to see how it does on a 2.5L. In my opinion it seems like the 68hta still out does this turbo. It spools much sooner, makes similar power, and will likely be about the same price.

Any thoughts on that?
68 on a 205? Maybe I'm missing something but I've only seen them in the 300/300 area.

Wait, that was on a 207. Should be similarish though...
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:08 PM   #28
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im curious how this will do on a ej207 i have the deadbolt super16g and running 19.5 psi.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:11 PM   #29
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I went from Deadbolt Super16G running 20PSI to this. No comparison as it makes more power everywhere. The DB was a good turbo, this one is great.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber
I went from Deadbolt Super16G running 20PSI to this. No comparison as it makes more power everywhere. The DB was a good turbo, this one is great.
una are you running a ej207 or ej205 just curious.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:14 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
68 on a 205? Maybe I'm missing something but I've only seen them in the 300/300 area.

Wait, that was on a 207. Should be similarish though...


So hard to compare #'s since different dynos, different days, different set ups, ect...


From the general consensus of what I've read/seen this turbo makes about the same #'s as a 68hta on the same engine, yet this turbo spools @ about 4300rpm and I've seen the 68 peak boost by about 3700. That's a huge difference.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGraffix View Post
So hard to compare #'s since different dynos, different days, different set ups, ect...
Fair enough

Quote:
From the general consensus of what I've read/seen this turbo makes about the same #'s as a 68hta on the same engine, yet this turbo spools @ about 4300rpm and I've seen the 68 peak boost by about 3700. That's a huge difference.
That is a big difference. But Unibomber is saying that the in car difference is huge. I wonder if the graph is just misleading.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:43 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
That is a big difference. But Unibomber is saying that the in car difference is huge. I wonder if the graph is just misleading.


That's what I'm wondering. If bomber man can take some logs from street pulls I'd love to run an aiyboy on it for reference.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmsti340 View Post
una are you running a ej207 or ej205 just curious.
205 I think....I'm ignorant of those EJ codes. It's a stock USDM 04 2.0L motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
That is a big difference. But Unibomber is saying that the in car difference is huge. I wonder if the graph is just misleading.
Graph is very much misleading as what you'd think would be lag city with mid-rpm pull is a feeling of a big V-6 with massive pull everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGraffix View Post
That's what I'm wondering. If bomber man can take some logs from street pulls I'd love to run an aiyboy on it for reference.
Post #9 here is a street pull from last night.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:25 AM   #35
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Congrats Unabomber, this thing sounds like an amazing AX setup. Graphs can be so misleading sometimes. Preacher's FXT lost tons of torque and a some HP when he went from vf-39 to 20g xt, but his chariot is much faster. With Ron's reputation with Subies I think we can trust what his butt dyno is telling us all.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:25 AM   #36
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Of course all dynos are different and how they are loaded is often reflected in the differences in plots. This is also a 2.0, and results will reflect the 20% less displacement vs the 2.5 that is obviously a bigger 'pump'.

Transient response is something you don't see on a dyno plot, but you certainly feel on the street and means everything when you talk about real world drivability. Unabomber is a 'say it how it is' kind of guy and been heavily involved with Subies for along time. I don't doubt the results, although I think they are mostly due to the super awesome header

Good job Unabomber, I bet it's a blast to drive.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:34 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber

205 I think....I'm ignorant of those EJ codes. It's a stock USDM 04 2.0L motor.

Graph is very much misleading as what you'd think would be lag city with mid-rpm pull is a feeling of a big V-6 with massive pull everywhere.

Post #9 here is a street pull from last night.
I'll be waiting on a ride at the next meet! Hearing you talk about it was 1 thing but now I wanna ride...

Hope that DB of yours stands up to its reputation on my car and can atleast compare to this on E85...

Also to comment on this 68 vs 16gXTR thing. This turbo hold more up top but does spool later so take it for what its worth. Now the 68 has a way different feel in car vs a graph just like this turbo... Be very intrested to see this on E85 as I see 400 being no problem.

As stated by Ron before this is the new all around street turbo for the ej205
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:37 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGraffix View Post
That's what I'm wondering. If bomber man can take some logs from street pulls I'd love to run an aiyboy on it for reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Post #9 here is a street pull from last night.
The log in post #9 doesn't have the Time column so you can't run an Airboy.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:40 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport
Of course all dynos are different and how they are loaded is often reflected in the differences in plots. This is also a 2.0, and results will reflect the 20% less displacement vs the 2.5 that is obviously a bigger 'pump'.

Transient response is something you don't see on a dyno plot, but you certainly feel on the street and means everything when you talk about real world drivability. Unabomber is a 'say it how it is' kind of guy and been heavily involved with Subies for along time. I don't doubt the results, although I think they are mostly due to the super awesome header

Good job Unabomber, I bet it's a blast to drive.
I'm going to bubble in true for this statement. Wonder if unabomber put those headers on with the Turbo swap. Could affect spool???
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #40
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So glad to see that this turbo is finally a reality and you've been the guinea pig Ron. Very exciting stuff.

24psi seems very high for 93, but what do I know. If jermaine wanted to put it there hen its probably fine. It makes me wonder how much of your power is from the increase from 20 to 24 psi. It's hard to compare turbos when you increased the boost on one.

Regardless, the ball bearing turbos are a lot more fun to drive and I'm glad it has given you what your looking for.

I am running a very similar setup, same hotside, same center section, larger cold side (dom 1.5) and spool is about 800rpms sooner. I wonder if it is purely the 2.0 vs 2.5?
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:57 AM   #41
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What I really want to know is if this turbo falls on its face after 5000-5500 rpm like the vf39? It's only 2 more lb/min than the vf39/43

I loved my vf39 until it ran oit of power. If it could only have kept breathing at higher rpms I woulda kept her
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:13 AM   #42
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Ron can you get us some logs on the 20psi map and the 24psi map? I also wouldn't mind running a airboy and VD plot on it...
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07VTRex
What I really want to know is if this turbo falls on its face after 5000-5500 rpm like the vf39? It's only 2 more lb/min than the vf39/43

I loved my vf39 until it ran oit of power. If it could only have kept breathing at higher rpms I woulda kept her
Both graphs (dyno and boost plot) say no. looks like it pulls hard to redline
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:16 AM   #44
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Like to see a log on lower boost to compare MAF values up top....
24psi on 93 flat easy timing curve
Wonder what it would do on 22 to 18 psi with a little more timing?

Not to get into the boost v timing debate, just out of interest, Id be playing with this all day lol

Love to see this on an aggressive E tune on a 2.0

Its impressive with an IWG to hold 24psi like it does

Last edited by Kastley85891; 04-10-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:20 AM   #45
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It holds solidly above 6k unlike a "small" 16g, but initial spool up looks.... meh......

here's a "small" 16g I tuned recently. You can see it starts dropping boost after 5500rpm unlike the "16g-XTR" that Ron has...



And again, transient response (as KillerB mentioned) is not something being displayed graphically in our discussion and I would be willing to bet with the BB, its gonna be as good or better than the "small" 16g. The reason I compare it to a "small" 16g is because this is typically considered as the "fastest spooling turbo upgrade over the TD04," and people looking for spool up more than power output would be interested in this data.

A little off beat here, but here's my 2 liter with ball bearing 20g. It looks like similar spool to the "16g-XTR" and can definitely displace more air at the same boost levels....


I'd be interested in an Airboy plot from ron's car so we can have a more apples to apples comparo...

EDIT: Ron, I don't know if you noticed, but your IAM (dynamic advance multiplier for AP) dropped from 16 from the dyno log, to 13 when you did the log posted in post#9 and there's some fine learning knock during spool up. Might wanna investigate/have your tuner take a look..... (*not being a di(k, just pointing it out)

Last edited by dux10; 04-10-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:25 AM   #46
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I had an FP 16G hold 22psi to redline NP, thats 'old' technology lol but that was with a boat load of timing. Like I said, Id need to see this on an aggressive tune. My FP hit 22psi @3400 in 3rd.
Id go with an 18GXT or 20GXT on my 2.0 (well I am ;-) ) but purely because I already ran a 16G previously, but if I was coming from a stocker I would for sure consider this turbo and run it hard.
Props to OP for trying it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:39 AM   #47
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Wow great numbers! on pump gas too.. That turbo looks very promising! i wish it was around when i was building my wagon.

Mike
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:43 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kastley85891 View Post
I had an FP 16G hold 22psi to redline NP, thats 'old' technology lol but that was with a boat load of timing. Like I said, Id need to see this on an aggressive tune.
22psi from peak boost to redline, or say 24-26 peak tapering to 22 @ redline?
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:52 AM   #49
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22 peak, flat lining
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:59 AM   #50
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22 peak, flat lining
I'm impressed lol
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