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Old 04-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #26
Calamity Jesus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_knoxville
comparisons to the veloster are ludicrous. there is a big difference between a rwd chassis and a fwd chassis, both in weight, balance and driving dynamics
just to recap..

A veloster owner (Xan) was saying the 370Z was too big. I simply thought it was ironic enough to point out that they're nearly the same size.

WRXHillClimb then went full derp in his usual way.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Congrats, Xan.


370Z:
Wheelbase 100.4*in (2,550*mm)
Length 167.1*in (4,240*mm)
Width 72.8*in (1,850*mm)
Height 51.8*in (1,320*mm)

Veloster:
Wheelbase 104.3*in (2,649*mm)
Length 166.1*in (4,219*mm)
Width 70.5*in (1,791*mm) 71.1*in (1,806*mm) (Turbo)
Height 55.1*in (1,400*mm)

The 370Z is tiny already.
This "you drive a Hyundai" bull**** is getting really tiresome, especially from someone who drives a Mini.
First off, I didn't say dick about the 370Z, especially compared to my own car. You know why? Because the Veloster and 370Z are in absolutely no way shape or form comparable.
Reasonably-quick Japanese RWD V6 Sports Coupe vs. Dog-slow Korean FWD I4 Hatchback is about as ****ing polar opposite as you can get.
It's childish bull**** akin to "oh yeah? Well, your mom!"
Second of all, this is sort of my point. Shrinking the engine ~50% is silly. The lightest 370Z weighs 3232lbs. Putting a 2-liter engine in a car that weighs that much without shrinking the car is a bit silly - especially because the 370Z would be even quicker if it were smaller and lighter. Trust me, I know what it's like to drive a car with an engine that is way too small. So, they don't necessarily have to put a smaller engine in it - just find a way to make the car a little smaller. Hell, right now the Z currently doesn't really compete against anything else the same size, so shrink it into a BRZ/Miata competitor, keep the VQ37HR, and watch everyone weep as you mop the floor with their dreams with your 300hp V6.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
Did you read the article? I know WRXHillClimb didn't. They're talking about the next gen version of the Z... not putting a smaller engine into the existing car.
Nobody said they were. People were simply saying that putting a smaller engine into a car the same size would be silly. As a hypothetical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXHillClimb View Post
Also, the veloster is already a decent handling vehicle I'm pretty sure...
Until you hit a bump, and then the wacky rear suspension and the idiotic beam axle kick the back out like a go-go dancer on PCP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john_knoxville View Post
comparisons to the veloster are ludicrous. *there is a big difference between a rwd chassis and a fwd chassis, both in weight, balance and driving dynamics
Nuh uh, because Hyundai durrrrrrr hurr hurrrrrrr

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
A veloster owner (Xan) was saying the 370Z was too big.
Except I didn't say that.

Last edited by XanRules; 04-08-2012 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
This "you drive a Hyundai" bull**** is getting really tiresome, especially from someone who drives a Mini.
I don't care that you drive a Hyundai.. I just think it's funny to hear a Veloster owner criticize Mazda styling. I like quite a few Kia & Hyundai models and am in no way 'hatin' on your Hyundai, cuz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
First off, I didn't say dick about the 370Z, especially compared to my own car. You know why? Because the Veloster and 370Z are in absolutely no way shape or form comparable.
You certainly said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
Shrink the car, not the motor.
Ugh.
...in response to an article about the next gen Z.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
Reasonably-quick Japanese RWD V6 Sports Coupe vs. Dog-slow Korean FWD I4 Hatchback is about as ****ing polar opposite as you can get.
Err.. I don't believe I was discussing anything other than size. My point was that the 370Z was already made much much smaller than the 350Z. I was trying to highlight this to you by pointing out that it's practically the same size as your own subcompact. Try out a little context next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
It's childish bull**** akin to "oh yeah? Well, your mom!"
I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was actually getting on your nerves with the tongue-in-cheek "says a veloster owner" stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
Second of all, this is sort of my point. Shrinking the engine ~50% is silly. The lightest 370Z weighs 3232lbs. Putting a 2-liter engine in a car that weighs that much without shrinking the car is a bit silly - especially because the 370Z would be even quicker if it were smaller and lighter. Trust me, I know what it's like to drive a car with an engine that is way too small. So, they don't necessarily have to put a smaller engine in it - just find a way to make the car a little smaller. Hell, right now the Z currently doesn't really compete against anything else the same size, so shrink it into a BRZ/Miata competitor, keep the VQ37HR, and watch everyone weep as you mop the floor with their dreams with your 300hp V6.
. Okay. Weight and size are two differnt things, so maybe you can understand how I misread your comment regarding weight that didn't mention weight at all.

The reason the 370Z weighs so much is because the tires, wheels, brakes, hubs, suspension, frame, differential, driveshaft, transmission, and radiator are all sized to support a 330hp engine. If you reduced the engine size and output you could spec lighter weight components and you'd cut weight as well.

This is why I roll my eyes at all the people calling for a big HP BRZ STI... it would gain a significant amount of weight from the addition of power... And this is why I pointed out that the 370Z is currently one of the lightest 330hp cars on the market anywhere under $50k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
Nuh uh, because Hyundai durrrrrrr hurr hurrrrrrr

Except I didn't say that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XanRules
Shrink the car, not the motor.
Ugh.
Whatever.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:57 PM   #29
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Bringing back the Silvia or 200SX would be cool. The BRZ/FRS is sort of over priced in many ways. I love the car and the concept, but it's basically a rwd impreza with NAV and HIDs for 26k! Nissan could fairly easily bring a strong competitor to the market if they think the demand is there. It won't be the first time they've killed the Z.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by h23 View Post
Bring back a 240sx successor, **** just bring the S15 back and to the US, and sell it for $25k as a BRZ/FRS/Miata competitor.
I've thought for the past 5 years that they could manufacture the S15 nearly as-is and they would sell like hotcakes in the US. The S chassis line has stayed more contemporary for their year than most any car I can think of.
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:30 PM   #31
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This entire post perplexes me. The original 350z was fairly light and the base model rang in at 26,500. Why not offer a stripped out 370z with the 3.5 motor. I believe they even still make a 3.5 motor. Nissan don't be stupid and offer the 2.5 v6. That thing would be just silly slow and not give you mpg to really be a sales hit.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #32
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Fuel economy, emissions and safety standards
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:34 AM   #33
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My son had a 200SER. Although fun to drive, not something I wanted to drive as a daily driver.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:23 AM   #34
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Make a 200S and we'll talk.

370Z is a looker though. I'll give it that much. It's probably the stance
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibug View Post
"The latest BMW M5 downsized from a 5.0-litre V10 to a more powerful 4.4-litre twin-turbo V8"

HAHAHA. And I downsized from a Triple Whopper meal to a Double whopper...with forced induction.
A double whopper with a stick to force it down : ))
A 4 cyl TT Z could work I suggest they add some sound proofing in that car as one I drove was really noisy inside.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #36
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Plan:

1. Give it a 2.4 liter with a turbo
2. Call it the 240z
3. Give it retro styling
4. Win.

There was a 240z concept in 1999
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #37
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I like your plan, save a couple of things.

1: it should probably be a 2+2, even a meager one, and leave 2+0 to the higher performance Z.
2: not that concept car. WOW, not that concept car.
3: Perhaps call it an SX, instead of a Z, since Z has typically been a 6-cylinder, and a car that wasn't at the bottom of the lineup.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:59 PM   #38
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except they should make the car more like the brz not the 240sx.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:17 PM   #39
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Other than smaller and lighter than the more recent versions of that nissan nameplate... what else is intrinsically different between a RWD 2+2 Nissan SX, or a RWD 2+2 Subaru BRZ, or a RWD 2+2 Scion FR-S.

All RWD 4-cylinders around a similar price point. Any revival of a RWD Nissan 4-cylinder coupe is of course directly answering to BRZ/FRS introduction and wanting to get a piece of that buzz.

The whole point of this article is of course going to a 4-cylinder engine, and to make that compelling, "adding lightness" would be on that menu.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:43 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
This entire post perplexes me. The original 350z was fairly light and the base model rang in at 26,500. Why not offer a stripped out 370z with the 3.5 motor. I believe they even still make a 3.5 motor. Nissan don't be stupid and offer the 2.5 v6. That thing would be just silly slow and not give you mpg to really be a sales hit.
Boost and done. If they were to make something to go against a BRZ, I'd see them doing a turbo 4 (s13-s15) and making it about 2800lbs.

Back in 89 an sr20det pushed what, 200 or 210. By todays standards they could probably have it easily hit 250hp and price it at $25k. If they put that together, it would make for a hell of a car, I'd probably check one out. I'd kill to have a brand new S15 even today, that car was sex
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:35 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
I like your plan, save a couple of things.

1: it should probably be a 2+2, even a meager one, and leave 2+0 to the higher performance Z.
2: not that concept car. WOW, not that concept car.
3: Perhaps call it an SX, instead of a Z, since Z has typically been a 6-cylinder, and a car that wasn't at the bottom of the lineup.
4: Come with AWD standard
Fixed
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #42
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As cool as it sounds, I just don't know what they have in the pipeline. This would obviously utilize a four-cylinder (as anything bigger would compromise too much in terms of both output and fuel consumption, even if they downsize displacement), but the four-bangers in their stable aren't anything great, at least not compared to what else is out there. The 2.5 isn't bad, but I'd imagine it's not the most inspiring NA four-cylinder to drive (as I haven't driven a Spec V in a while), and I'm not sure how good of a candidate they will have from the other engines in their lineup stateside, as it seems like a lot of Nissan's focus is on their V-6s in terms of performance capabilities, plus the boosted fours they've had in JDM cars of theirs may not be smog legal.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:23 PM   #43
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If they build a Turbo 200sx type car, they need to build it to compete with the planned STI. If they're already turboed, pushing average numbers, they're going to be hurting in sales when the performance BRZ (etc) come out.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:27 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
As cool as it sounds, I just don't know what they have in the pipeline. This would obviously utilize a four-cylinder (as anything bigger would compromise too much in terms of both output and fuel consumption, even if they downsize displacement), but the four-bangers in their stable aren't anything great, at least not compared to what else is out there. The 2.5 isn't bad, but I'd imagine it's not the most inspiring NA four-cylinder to drive (as I haven't driven a Spec V in a while), and I'm not sure how good of a candidate they will have from the other engines in their lineup stateside, as it seems like a lot of Nissan's focus is on their V-6s in terms of performance capabilities, plus the boosted fours they've had in JDM cars of theirs may not be smog legal.
I've read that Nissan is sharing plants with MB, and might somewhat be in bed with them. Could pull something crazy there, but i guess that's unlikely.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:35 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Killerkanadian View Post
I've read that Nissan is sharing plants with MB, and might somewhat be in bed with them. Could pull something crazy there, but i guess that's unlikely.
You know, I forgot about that, but again, I don't even know if Mercedes has any solid four-cylinders that have the potential to be sporty and somewhat lightweight (or at least not be uber heavy), as right now, their specialty seems to be their V-8s, whether NA, twin-turbo or AMG-ified. Their V-6s (particuarly the 3.5-liters) have always been smooth but not quite the class benchmark (as far as the motors in the engine bays of the Benzes or their competitors go), and I don't know if their four-cylinders are much better. I could be wrong, but again, it's just based on what we get here.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
You know, I forgot about that, but again, I don't even know if Mercedes has any solid four-cylinders that have the potential to be sporty and somewhat lightweight (or at least not be uber heavy), as right now, their specialty seems to be their V-8s, whether NA, twin-turbo or AMG-ified. Their V-6s (particuarly the 3.5-liters) have always been smooth but not quite the class benchmark (as far as the motors in the engine bays of the Benzes or their competitors go), and I don't know if their four-cylinders are much better. I could be wrong, but again, it's just based on what we get here.

Their new 4cyl 1.8T seems to be putting out some decent numbers in their C250 sedan. 0-60 in 7.1s, peak torque at 2,200rpms, C250 sedan weighs in at 3,400lbs so anything lighter might be a fun little package. Not to mention rated at 31mpg highway in the Benz. It does require premium fuel though.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:24 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coop3422 View Post
Boost and done. If they were to make something to go against a BRZ, I'd see them doing a turbo 4 (s13-s15) and making it about 2800lbs.

Back in 89 an sr20det pushed what, 200 or 210. By todays standards they could probably have it easily hit 250hp and price it at $25k. If they put that together, it would make for a hell of a car, I'd probably check one out. I'd kill to have a brand new S15 even today, that car was sex
I'd buy it.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:53 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
Fixed
100% accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerkanadian View Post
If they build a Turbo 200sx type car, they need to build it to compete with the planned STI. If they're already turboed, pushing average numbers, they're going to be hurting in sales when the performance BRZ (etc) come out.
No, if they made something that was a specification sheet duplicate of an S15 it would outsell the BRZ and its STi version.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:05 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Eyeflyistheeye View Post
Fixed
No, not AWD on a Z. I am not that single-minded.

They should offer AWD on a coupe... as they do with the G37x, and the GT-R.

But G37xS could stand to lose some weight, and a manual or dual-clutch gearbox, instead of a slush-box automatic would be nice. With less weight, the car theoretically could either keep it's V6, or offer a turbo direct injected I4, like the Genesis 2.0T has. Nissan's 1.8T would seem to be the engine of choice there.

What could make for an interesting S- line successor, S16 or S18, perhaps, if the G37's 2+2 FM platform is pared down DRASTICALLY to near BRZ size, with much less luxury amenity content, which would be a lot of weight reduction. If they could incorporate the ATTESSA AWD system into that, as an OPTION, in addition to standard, lighter RWD-only, it wouldn't be a problem.

Something with NX2000-like styling updated to today, maybe with a dash of R32 and R33 Skyline styling thrown in for good measure. With RWD chassis handling dynamics... Sport option package called SE-R... That would make for a nice BRZ and BRZ-STI competitor, as well as potentially competing against the next WRX, all in one Nissan product, with RWD or AWD options.

The other, easier, cheaper alternative for Nissan, would be to add a haldex-style AWD system from the to the Altima, including the Altima Coupe. Less technically impressive, but at least something better than FWD only. Basically a Juke AWD turbo drivetrain under an Altima Coupe body that doesn't look completely demented. (although the brand new Altima grille is kind of demented, too.) I have suggested the same for Kia Sportage SX Turbo's drivetrain under a Forte Koup. Several manufacturers could do this in fairly short order, if they wanted to.

Z is too famous a nameplate for what it is, to be AWD, especially when Skyline is the nameplate known for AWD performance from Nissan.

Z should stay RWD, and should stay 6-cylinder, and 2-seats, with a fast-back hatch. Tradition can be important.

Last edited by HipToBeSquare; 04-10-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:29 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Z is too famous a nameplate for what it is, to be AWD, especially when Skyline is the nameplate known for AWD performance from Nissan.

Z should stay RWD, and should stay 6-cylinder, and 2-seats, with a fast-back hatch. Tradition can be important.
It's hard to rule that out, or to say that "tradition" is of great importance, especially when dealing with cars of this nature (meaning something not uber pricey).

Subaru was all about touting their entire lineup being AWD, as was tradition, and now they're dropping the RWD BRZ, and that is shaping up to be one of their most talked about cars in recent years, one that completely broke tradition.

Everyone screamed blasphemy when BMW was utilizing turbos again, particularly on the M cars (which may also see AWD and possibly diesel), and the "purists" cried about the 328i losing the sound of a six-cylinder, even though the car ended up being faster, more flexible across the rev range and more fuel efficient than before. So far, so good.

I think we can be more open-minded about the Z having an additional drivetrain option.
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