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Old 04-08-2012, 07:09 PM   #1
pawelzak98
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Default welding/bending roll cage

hello there i wanted to do a roll cage on my car for awhile now and dont know where to start for example i have a mig welder its nothing bad and its not a Bentley of it lol i did my exhaust and it came out nice ( im a noob) but it works i have a couple questions its going in my AW 04 wrx

1-where to get the piping
2-where to get it bend
3-where to even start this
4-if i do end up doing it should i use some special paint or it doesnt matter
5-is there a blueprint sorta thing out there for the specific bends and welds

please help me out guys i know im a noob but i been scooping nasioc ever since i got my rex and i had it for a year now so happy with it
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:10 PM   #2
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bumppp
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:23 PM   #3
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S&W race cars sells pre bent cages. you still need to notch most of the stuff and cut to length. comes with directions even.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #4
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:50 AM   #5
pawelzak98
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Guys thank you so much for helping me
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #6
PARANOID56
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ok i can help

1. its called tubing, not pipe, pipe is for poop.
2. usually if you are atempting to build a cage you bend it yourself with a bender. as it will be very hard to get the proper bends by just telling somebody. you could try drawing it up in bendtech but that will cost $$.
3. i would start by praticing welding on tubing a whole bunch before i started this project. i would also start searching around on the net to see how people are doing it. depending on your money, your best bet is to find a local shop to build one for you. last resort you could buy one from one safty cage or what ever their name is on here but they make a OK cage.
4. any paint will work.
5. it depends on what racing you plan on doing. most on here will say you should never run a cage on the street with out a full helmet and 4pt. so keep that in mind as a bad cage will do more harm then good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pawelzak98 View Post
hello there i wanted to do a roll cage on my car for awhile now and dont know where to start for example i have a mig welder its nothing bad and its not a Bentley of it lol i did my exhaust and it came out nice ( im a noob) but it works i have a couple questions its going in my AW 04 wrx

1-where to get the piping
2-where to get it bend
3-where to even start this
4-if i do end up doing it should i use some special paint or it doesnt matter
5-is there a blueprint sorta thing out there for the specific bends and welds

please help me out guys i know im a noob but i been scooping nasioc ever since i got my rex and i had it for a year now so happy with it
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:08 PM   #7
vision.dynamix
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Honestly if youre asking those questions you have no business trying to build a roll cage. A cage is not like a light bar or an exhaust. If you do it wrong, it WILL kill you.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:19 PM   #8
pawelzak98
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Yes I am aware of that that's why I'm trying to gather as much information about it as possible
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:46 PM   #9
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Never EVER MIG weld a roll cage by the way.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawelzak98 View Post
Yes I am aware of that that's why I'm trying to gather as much information about it as possible
All the reading and research in the world will not make you ready to build a roll cage.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:34 PM   #11
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Remember always: Don't weld your chromoly roll cage with 4130 rod. Use 70s2....
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:07 PM   #12
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I know that even with all the research in the world u will be never ready to make one but you have to start at one point couse I'm not the person who will just waste money to have someone do it I want to do everything myself couse I live cars and I love working on them. In the end you have to take risks and chances to get better
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndromeofthedown View Post
Never EVER MIG weld a roll cage by the way.
reasoning behind this? ive built plenty of tube chassis for rock crawling that get the piss beat out of them, all mig welded. same with buddies who are fully xray certified welders and do it for a living.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:47 AM   #14
pawelzak98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 05stidriver20 View Post
reasoning behind this? ive built plenty of tube chassis for rock crawling that get the piss beat out of them, all mig welded. same with buddies who are fully xray certified welders and do it for a living.
so i can mig weld it just with the right set up or anything will do? couse i dont have a tig welder and dont feel like asking my dad to use his at his job
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndromeofthedown View Post
Never EVER MIG weld a roll cage by the way.
This is nonsense. MIG is perfectly suitable and the choice of many pro chassis builders.

Duncan
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:27 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawelzak98 View Post
I know that even with all the research in the world u will be never ready to make one but you have to start at one point couse I'm not the person who will just waste money to have someone do it I want to do everything myself couse I live cars and I love working on them. In the end you have to take risks and chances to get better
If this is your first time, you'd be better off buying a pre-fab kit and welding that in. There will still be plenty of fitment work, but it will come with directions and give you an idea how everything goes together. It'll probably be cheaper too. You'll need a tubing notcher, but can get by with a jig that uses a hole saw and a power drill.

Look through the Motorsports forums. Several people have posted their cage builds and that should give you an idea about the process.

Good luck,

Duncan
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dunk

This is nonsense. MIG is perfectly suitable and the choice of many pro chassis builders.

Duncan
Ok thank you that's what I wanted to hear
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Old 04-10-2012, 10:16 AM   #18
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Hello. I did not see that you were going to build the cage to any race specifications. Are you doing it for racing or show?

You seem determined and motivated. Alot of people do their own cages but it is dangerous in the event of an impact and the cage failing. Also it takes up space inside the car and if you are thrown into a steel bar that would not be good. Good luck with your pursuit.
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Old 04-10-2012, 04:50 PM   #19
syndromeofthedown
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MIG welds are too brittle post welding to cool down the same as the surrounding base metal. Please enlighten us as to these "pro" chassis builders that use MIG to weld roll cages. Every "pro" chassis builder I know TIG welds their tubing whether it be DOM or cro-mo. MIG welding a life saving device is a no no and destined for failure. Vibration and shock over time will break your MIG welds. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but there is no code certification X-ray or other for welds done on chassis.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:31 PM   #20
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Here's some examples. Try not to sound like so much of an ******* when you post. It makes it harder to get your point across.

Lincoln Electric article on NASCAR COT chassis being Mig Welded. It does mention TIG becoming more popular.
- http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...-tomorrow.aspx

From Miller Welding site. Picture of Hendrick Motorsports welding together a chassis.
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...iller-Welders/

Factory Ford Race Car FR500S with MIG welded cage
http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicl.../photo_14.html

More examples of MIG welding on NASCAR chassis.
http://www.fabricatingandmetalworkin...exotic-metals/
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:38 PM   #21
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^^^what he said.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndromeofthedown View Post
MIG welds are too brittle post welding to cool down the same as the surrounding base metal. Please enlighten us as to these "pro" chassis builders that use MIG to weld roll cages. Every "pro" chassis builder I know TIG welds their tubing whether it be DOM or cro-mo. MIG welding a life saving device is a no no and destined for failure. Vibration and shock over time will break your MIG welds. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but there is no code certification X-ray or other for welds done on chassis.
(EDIT: Dunk beat me to it, but here it is anyway...)

Where did you learn this?

It is all wrong.

I really don't want to go into specifics on fatigue resistance of different types of arc welding...as long as the weld bead is of the proper cross-sectional geometry and of the same composition (let's use ER70S-2 for instance) the fatigue resistance is exactly the same.

Yeah MIG welding a chassis is a horrible idea, why would anyone want to do that?

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Old 04-10-2012, 07:40 PM   #23
pawelzak98
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thank you guys ill give you more info on what i want

1-i want either this
http://www.swracecars.com/store/8-Po...1=11-5080.aspx
or this
http://www.swracecars.com/store/10-P...8=11-5580.aspx

2- i would like to powercoate it florenca yellow
3- i guess im going more show
4-i dont know about how much room i want to loose but i know that i dont care about the back seats

ps sorry if im a dick or anything im just asking questions and thanks so much for your help guys
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:06 PM   #24
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syndromeofthedown just got roasted.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:31 AM   #25
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Dude you're crazy saying mig welds are to brittle.

To the OP since you have a mig you can't use chrom-moly tubing and have it be certified by nhra standards at least. Also decide if you want to do a roll bar or a roll cage then you can decide on material size. Personally I think S&W is pretty crappy. I work part time at a fab shop and we have done a few Subaru roll bars and cages. Shoot me a pm and maybe I can help you out
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