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Old 04-10-2012, 05:25 AM   #1
Culverin
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Default Tires in the Wet

Hi there,

I've done a bit of research and it seems that...
  • all-season tires are meant for very wet and a bit of snow and sacrifice a bit of wet traction?

    And
  • summer tires are just all around better in milder conditions, but without deeper tread, will not handle for heavy rain and light snow?


I JUST bought my first car and I'm hoping you guys will help me play catch up a bit...
  • I live in Vancouver.
  • 2002 Impreza Outback Sport, stock rims.
  • I have winter tires on steelies for when it starts getting cold and very wet.
  • Vancouver temperature is pretty mild. I'd be expecting to use these tires from 10-25ish degrees celcius. It might spike up closer to 30, but only for a week or so.
  • Vancouver is wet, all the time. The rain usually doesn't come down super heavy, but I'd like to be covered just in case it does.
  • Vancouver always has construction, there is usually lots of stray gravel around and a goodly number of small potholes. But since i'm running stock rims, the tires probably won't be super low profile anyways so I'll be ok?
Will a summer tire be meant for warmer climates that Vancouver has?
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:51 AM   #2
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d000000000000000d

a good summer tire will be better in wet/rain than any other tire provided you buy a summer tire that isnt one not meant to be used in the wet...of which there are several on the market such as the kumho xs

star specs will handle wet/rain quite well

summer tires are NOT MEANT TO BE USED IN ANY SNOW AT ALL or in temperatures below ~5*C
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:57 AM   #3
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As Uncle mentioned there are summer tires for dry and there are summer tires for wet and dry.
Tire Rack classifies dry summer tires as Extreme performance http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/extremeperf.jsp

All seasons usually sacrifice ice and dry handling for better wet and snow.
Winter tires usually scarifice dry and wet for ice and snow.

It sounds like you need summer tires that handle wet very well and you need winter tires that are good in wet too.

What winter tires do you have? What size for summer?

Krzys
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:30 PM   #4
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Right now, I've just got some random winter tires that came with the car...
I'll do more research on it later, but perhaps they shouldn't have played into my purchase decision at all.

Eitherway, my focus right now is on replacing the current almost dead all seasons on there.

So is there no recommended temp range for running summers aside from "it should be above 5 degrees?"
I somehow assume that this temp range would be slightly lower on all seasons, that's why I'm asking.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:19 PM   #5
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I'm going to disagree with Uncle a bit. You can use most summer tyres below 0*C. Just don't expect them to grip like it is summer. They are down right dangerous in the snow though. I'm on the RE-070 and they handle PNW rain just fine.

I've been thinking of getting some all seasons for winter as we get so little snow down here. If you go up in the hills you will want a full winter tyre to handle the white stuff.
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Old 04-11-2012, 09:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
I'm going to disagree with Uncle a bit. You can use most summer tyres below 0*C. Just don't expect them to grip like it is summer. They are down right dangerous in the snow though. I'm on the RE-070 and they handle PNW rain just fine.

I've been thinking of getting some all seasons for winter as we get so little snow down here. If you go up in the hills you will want a full winter tyre to handle the white stuff.
nothing will ruin your day faster than a nice bright sunny, cold, damp morning........38*F...morning dew on the pavement and summer tires and you just crashed because you had no grip AT ALL

go ahead....try it.......i'll wait
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:01 PM   #7
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^ Hasn't happend in 9 winters so far.

I did get caught out in the mountans with a bad weather forcast in November of '03. Six inches of snow to start with and then glaze ice in the pass. Very entrtaining. I had to use every trick in the book from my skiing days, including momentum managment. You can't go too slow, or you will get stuck. I was very happey to get back to the rain on the other side.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:04 PM   #8
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Cold and dry is not as bad as cold and damp.
Black ice - you need studded tires or studless with magic compound not worn out on dry, warm pavement.

Krzys
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:15 PM   #9
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well....living in north florida...on 2 separate occasions with 2 different kinds of summer tires...i almost crashed in conditions as noted above....about 36* - 38*F and damp

there was NO ICE...just damp, cold pavement and cold tires and NO traction....I was lucky there was no oncoming traffic once and lucky there was 2 lanes plus a turn lane the other time
____________________________________

anybody tells you that summer tires are 'just fine' as long as there is no snow is a fool if it is below ~40*F

dont listen to them....they want you to crash so they get cheap parts
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss View Post
Cold and dry is not as bad as cold and damp.
Black ice - you need studded tires or studless with magic compound not worn out on dry, warm pavement.

Krzys
That's just it. In winter on the West side of the Cascades we get wet a lot, dry cold, and very rarely snow/ice. @ 35*F in the rain, ice/frost isn't an issue.

Down in Portland the worst is after a week of dry and cold. We can come out of it with freezing rain. The ground is cold enough that the super cooled water droplets turn everything into a skating rink. I've actually fallen on my butt stepping out of the car. Didn't have a problem getting home and parking...
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
well....living in north florida...on 2 separate occasions with 2 different kinds of summer tires...i almost crashed in conditions as noted above....about 36* - 38*F and damp

there was NO ICE...just damp, cold pavement and cold tires and NO traction....I was lucky there was no oncoming traffic once and lucky there was 2 lanes plus a turn lane the other time
____________________________________

anybody tells you that summer tires are 'just fine' as long as there is no snow is a fool if it is below ~40*F

dont listen to them....they want you to crash so they get cheap parts
Must be the tyres. I've never encountered that with the RE-070's. They are OEM summers and maybe they are more tolerant of cold and wet/damp. As I said they are down right dangerous in the snow and ice. I don't use them on that stuff if I have a choice. Vacation days are nice...
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
Must be the tyres. I've never encountered that with the RE-070's. They are OEM summers and maybe they are more tolerant of cold and wet/damp. As I said they are down right dangerous in the snow and ice. I don't use them on that stuff if I have a choice. Vacation days are nice...
dont try it with RT-615's or fk 452's....no

the re070 may be one of a VERY FEW summer tires that tolerates sub 40*F temps

most do NOT
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:57 AM   #13
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Maybe you get what you pay for? I just checked tirerack and the RE-070 is more expensive than the RE-011 now. $231 vs $212ea. The RE-070's are not bad at the track ether. They have a 140 tread wear rating, but wear really well for me.

Here is tirerack's list of Extreme Performance Summer Tires in a 225/45 17: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/extremeperf.jsp

(I'm on my second set of take offs and have another set of almost new take off's double bagged in the cellar. I like them, but don't like paying full freight.)
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
star specs will handle wet/rain quite well

Wet and rain, yes. Downpours? No.

My starspecs have a tendency to hydroplane in standing water at relatively low speeds.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #15
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I bought my first set of summer tires two years ago, BF Goodrich G-force sports. They're not extreme performance summer tires and i dont think they handle rain better than allseasons...in fact, i dont think the summers are all that much better in the dry either.

Below 50 degrees, and in the rain, they are downright scary. It's almost like driving on glaze ice. Not sure I buy into the whole summer tire setup unless you're far enough south that you dont need anything else.

Before I bought the summers, a lot of people told me that summers were superior in the rain. I disagree with them.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker29
I bought my first set of summer tires two years ago, BF Goodrich G-force sports. They're not extreme performance summer tires and i dont think they handle rain better than allseasons...in fact, i dont think the summers are all that much better in the dry either.

Below 50 degrees, and in the rain, they are downright scary. It's almost like driving on glaze ice. Not sure I buy into the whole summer tire setup unless you're far enough south that you dont need anything else.

Before I bought the summers, a lot of people told me that summers were superior in the rain. I disagree with them.
I gotta disagree with you my friend. Maybe there are better and worse choices between brand and/or model??? I had a set of NITTO's on my 88gti and I had complete trust in them in the dry AND in the rain. I was always amazed at HOW good they were in the wet. Conversely, one time in the snow and I was stranded with zero traction. The treads just packed up with snow and I was all done. Teas about a 1/2 inch snowfall.
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Old 04-12-2012, 06:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker29 View Post
I bought my first set of summer tires two years ago, BF Goodrich G-force sports. They're not extreme performance summer tires and i dont think they handle rain better than allseasons...in fact, i dont think the summers are all that much better in the dry either.

Below 50 degrees, and in the rain, they are downright scary. It's almost like driving on glaze ice. Not sure I buy into the whole summer tire setup unless you're far enough south that you dont need anything else.

Before I bought the summers, a lot of people told me that summers were superior in the rain. I disagree with them.
i hope you know you're the only person who believes this.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Web Foot STi View Post
Maybe you get what you pay for? I just checked tirerack and the RE-070 is more expensive than the RE-011 now. $231 vs $212ea. The RE-070's are not bad at the track ether. They have a 140 tread wear rating, but wear really well for me.

Here is tirerack's list of Extreme Performance Summer Tires in a 225/45 17: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/types/extremeperf.jsp

(I'm on my second set of take offs and have another set of almost new take off's double bagged in the cellar. I like them, but don't like paying full freight.)



d00000000000000000000000000000000000d

this is a WELL KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED ISSUE WITH SUMMER TIRES.......KNOWN FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS

YOUR RESULTS ARE 100% A-TYPICAL


summer tires are dangerous in cold and wet and combined they are a disaster waiting to happen
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
Wet and rain, yes. Downpours? No.

My starspecs have a tendency to hydroplane in standing water at relatively low speeds.
which is the reason i am using and promote the 595RS-R.....great in the wet all the way to the wear bars


and most who use the star specs say they are just fine in the rain

I lived in florida for a long time and drove through tropical thunderstorms regularly and many tires wouldnt do well above 40mph in some of those
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #20
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from tire racks site:

While designed to combine predictable handling on the street with extreme dry traction on the track, the Potenza RE070, like all summer tires, is not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice.

this is the disclaimer on ALL the summer tires......
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:41 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boilermaker29 View Post
I bought my first set of summer tires two years ago, BF Goodrich G-force sports. They're not extreme performance summer tires and i dont think they handle rain better than allseasons...in fact, i dont think the summers are all that much better in the dry either.

Below 50 degrees, and in the rain, they are downright scary. It's almost like driving on glaze ice. Not sure I buy into the whole summer tire setup unless you're far enough south that you dont need anything else.

Before I bought the summers, a lot of people told me that summers were superior in the rain. I disagree with them.
Buy better summer tires next time.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=131

Krzys
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:43 PM   #22
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So as long as it's 10 degrees and above, summers > all-season's for all around use regardless of the rain? (assuming they have decent wet handling rating?).

Out of all my shopping, the Bridgestone Potenza RE970AS Pole Position are my front-runners.
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:47 PM   #23
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RE970 are all seasons.

Krzys
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:30 PM   #24
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Star Specs are great in the wet as an Autocross Tire. That being said, there are better wet condition tires out there by far. The Stars are downright scary below 40 if there is much water on the road. Had the unfortunate luck to catch a hail storm last week out of Michigan that had me going about 50-60mph because it got too out of control after that.

If you aren't racing the car in Autocross just avoid an Extreme condition Summer tire and go with something a little less aggressive with smaller tread blocks to keep your wet handling, especially in the Northwest. Stick with an Ultra High or Max Performance summer or an Ultra High Performance All Season.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:39 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krzyss View Post
RE970 are all seasons.

Krzys
Ooops, I mean these ones

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....t&autoModClar=
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