RIP Legacy GT 2005-2012

[DLC]

Bad news. Subaru has killed the Turbo Legacy in the US. Again.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...cy-2-5gt-gone/

The new DOHC Boxer 4 is good for a 1mpg improvement on the highway. The biggest news from an enthusiast standpoint is that the 2.5GT model is making a quiet exit. Another manual transmission notes the dust.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

[DLC]

As a follow-up, I guess the 3.6 is only going to be available with an automatic now.

*sigh*

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...s-2-5gt-model/

[tytek]

3.6R never had a manual. 5spd auto since its inception...

Too bad the LGT is gone; however, if they didn't sell well, we can only blame ourselves. At least I own a 2011 and really like it.

[Wiscon_Mark]

I really believe that this is temporary and they're working on an FB turbo motor to put in it.
It's silly - even if the sales were low, it's not like the parts weren't being used in the WRX. There was very little extra cost with the GT and it was a fairly popular car. I'm just thinking that since they switched to the new FB motor, a lot of things changed, and they didn't want to make the old EJ motor have to work in it.

[Scottie]

Originally Posted by tytek

....if they didn't sell well, we can only blame ourselves......

So we're to blame are we? I guess it is our fault SOA marketing mis-interpretted the popularity of the STi transmission in the Spec. B as the market simply wanting 6 speeds as opposed to wanting a good tranny. And again our fault for them mis-intrepretting the decline in sales of the 2010-2012 Legacy GT versus the 2005-2009 as a decline in the market for such a car as opposed to Subaru screwing up the formula.

Right now in Connecticut there is a 2008 Legacy GT, with 28,058 miles, listed for $24,980. Where on the other hand there is a 2010 Legacy GT, with 14,263 miles, listed for $23,994. Granted the 2008 is a Limited, certified, and overpriced, but I still see this as a greater demand and preference for the older model with the 5 spd than the newer model.

What next? Is SOA marketing going to interpret the popularity of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue as people simply liking women in bikinis, any women, and hiring Roseanne Barr and Roise O'Donnell for a swimsuit ad campaign?

[tytek]

Originally Posted by Scottie

So we're to blame are we? I guess it is our fault SOA marketing mis-interpretted the popularity of the STi transmission in the Spec. B as the market simply wanting 6 speeds as opposed to wanting a good tranny. And again our fault for them mis-intrepretting the decline in sales of the 2010-2012 Legacy GT versus the 2005-2009 as a decline in the market for such a car as opposed to Subaru screwing up the formula.

Right now in Connecticut there is a 2008 Legacy GT, with 28,058 miles, listed for $24,980. Where on the other hand there is a 2010 Legacy GT, with 14,263 miles, listed for $23,994. Granted the 2008 is a Limited, certified, and overpriced, but I still see this as a greater demand and preference for the older model with the 5 spd than the newer model.

What next? Is SOA marketing going to interpret the popularity of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue as people simply liking women in bikinis, any women, and hiring Roseanne Barr and Roise O'Donnell for a swimsuit ad campaign?

I see that you voted with your dollars to keep the LGT around... by driving a 2002 WRX. Please...

Manufacturers make what the market demands, and by looking at sales figures, the LGT is not in demand. However, it was the best bang for the buck for me, and stage2 with over 400tq it is a beast to drive.

As far as screwing up the formula, the car at $32k (Limited) was pricey against its competition and did not sell well. Imagine the cost of it if SOA put a 6spd STI tranny in it. An auto tranny could have saved it, b/c many of the 3.6R buyers (enthusiasts) would have taken the LGT. Ironic, isn't it. Put a slushbox in to save a performance car.

The design is in the eye to the beholder. Many of the 5th gen owners really like the look of the car, and so do I. Subarus were never pretty cars, aside from the 4th gen Legacy, which was an exception to the rule.

Maybe if more people bought the LGT, it would not have died a miserable death. And the prices you quoted are unrealistic, for both models; they are both outliers and are statistically insignificant.

[rougeben83]

Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark

I really believe that this is temporary and they're working on an FB turbo motor to put in it.
It's silly - even if the sales were low, it's not like the parts weren't being used in the WRX. There was very little extra cost with the GT and it was a fairly popular car. I'm just thinking that since they switched to the new FB motor, a lot of things changed, and they didn't want to make the old EJ motor have to work in it.

I think it's mainly this. The FB has a bunch of new tech added to it (namely the direct injection, new heads, exhaust routing, etc) and with stricter emissions regs worldwide, subaru needed a little extra time to develop a turbo version that can fit across a variety of models in their lineup.

Remember, the 2012 WRX/STI is basically a carryover of the 2011 model, whereas the new 2012 is a new chasis. Same principle, but with the popularity of the WRX/STI SOA probably didn't want to miss any of the sales for the 2012-13 model year by stopping production for those trim levels while developing a new turbo engine.

[ChrisAS]

Condolences

[b4wantab]

SOA has been keeeping the Forester's drive-train in carry over mode for 8 years now. 4EAT, really????

They could have done the same with the LGT. I think it is gone for awhile, they need the capacity. The 05-09s were the swan song. They are making money on the base models so that is all you will see now.

I have problems seeing the 3.6s future with the current line-up.

Peace,

Greg

[Pastor_JW]

I wouldn't mind seeing a turbo 3.6 but only with a beefier manual trans and a much better clutch. I'll likely however, just keep my 2010 LGT for the next 25 years or so like I have done with the 85 turbo XT.

[sti2010rl]

Originally Posted by Scottie

So we're to blame are we? I guess it is our fault SOA marketing mis-interpretted the popularity of the STi transmission in the Spec. B as the market simply wanting 6 speeds as opposed to wanting a good tranny. And again our fault for them mis-intrepretting the decline in sales of the 2010-2012 Legacy GT versus the 2005-2009 as a decline in the market for such a car as opposed to Subaru screwing up the formula.

Right now in Connecticut there is a 2008 Legacy GT, with 28,058 miles, listed for $24,980. Where on the other hand there is a 2010 Legacy GT, with 14,263 miles, listed for $23,994. Granted the 2008 is a Limited, certified, and overpriced, but I still see this as a greater demand and preference for the older model with the 5 spd than the newer model.

What next? Is SOA marketing going to interpret the popularity of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue as people simply liking women in bikinis, any women, and hiring Roseanne Barr and Roise O'Donnell for a swimsuit ad campaign?

^^^This man is the voice of reason on this thread.

The LGT wagon was a pipe dream. Cargo room, very nice looking, reasonably quick, and fun to drive. Most people I know absolutely loved the style. Let's say hypothetically, people didn't quite like it. Why the hell would they take that as a reason to turn it into a massive Toyota. The new models simply scream Toyota/Appliance blandness. If I wanted a Toyota, I'd shop at Toyota. It's not quirky, it's ugly. Quirky would imply a certain intrigue, a je ne sais quoi, about the car. It would have to stand out in a market that sells the same, bulky, cheap looking crap. But the new models are not quirky, because they look like every Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and so on. Hyundai even got its act together and started making unique looking cars. Enjoy your sales now. Next year, Honda/Toyota et al. will build something that looks just as ugly, but it will be even cheaper. The masses will flock there, because most consumers are looking for a bargain--they couldn't care less about brand association. Where Subaru could have stood its ground as a niche brand, it decided to sell out to appeal to the masses.

[tytek]

Originally Posted by sti2010rl

^^^This man is the voice of reason on this thread.

The LGT wagon was a pipe dream. Cargo room, very nice looking, reasonably quick, and fun to drive. Most people I know absolutely loved the style. Let's say hypothetically, people didn't quite like it. Why the hell would they take that as a reason to turn it into a massive Toyota. The new models simply scream Toyota/Appliance blandness. If I wanted a Toyota, I'd shop at Toyota. It's not quirky, it's ugly. Quirky would imply a certain intrigue, a je ne sais quoi, about the car. It would have to stand out in a market that sells the same, bulky, cheap looking crap. But the new models are not quirky, because they look like every Nissan, Toyota, Honda, and so on. Hyundai even got its act together and started making unique looking cars. Enjoy your sales now. Next year, Honda/Toyota et al. will build something that looks just as ugly, but it will be even cheaper. The masses will flock there, because most consumers are looking for a bargain--they couldn't care less about brand association. Where Subaru could have stood its ground as a niche brand, it decided to sell out to appeal to the masses.

Appealing to the masses pays the bills... being a niche brand does not. One thing that many enthusiasts cannot comprehend is the fact that car makers are in this business to make money by producing cars, not unlike TV manufacturers, who are in the market to make money by making, you guessed it, TVs. In today's world of ever shrinking margins, raising costs, and plummeting consumer purchasing power, to survive means to sell what the market wants.

Too bad, so sad, but that is our today's reality. I would much rather like Subaru to be the tiny arm of FHI that makes quirky, small volume cars. But let's all be happy that a well selling Outback and Forester allows Subaru (Toyota now) to offer sweet cars like the WRX or the STI in the US. The LGT is gone for now, but I predict that it will make a come back with the next Legacy remake.

[jaymmmbee]

Well said ^ be interesting to see if it ever makes a comeback, but I'm happy with mine and plan on keeping it as an ongoing project car beyond it's current DD service status. These days auto manufacturers are limiting uniqueness and focusing on appealing to the largest market shares and with our economy in it's present condition - reliability and fuel economy are what that market share desires. Too bad I'm part of a minority group of "enthusiasts" who are not a focus currently.

[jeisen]

Originally Posted by tytek

Appealing to the masses pays the bills... being a niche brand does not. One thing that many enthusiasts cannot comprehend is the fact that car makers are in this business to make money by producing cars, not unlike TV manufacturers, who are in the market to make money by making, you guessed it, TVs. In today's world of ever shrinking margins, raising costs, and plummeting consumer purchasing power, to survive means to sell what the market wants.

Too bad, so sad, but that is our today's reality. I would much rather like Subaru to be the tiny arm of FHI that makes quirky, small volume cars. But let's all be happy that a well selling Outback and Forester allows Subaru (Toyota now) to offer sweet cars like the WRX or the STI in the US. The LGT is gone for now, but I predict that it will make a come back with the next Legacy remake.

Exactly. The enthusiast car market represents roughly 3-5% (depending on who you quote) of the total car-buying market. Enthusiast cars are also more costly to produce due to smaller batch sizes and expensive cutting edge technology.

For an example of how car companies use big sellers to pay for niche products, look at what the Cayenne did for Porsche's sales figures.

[UnaturallyAspirated]

It just makes the Leggy owners cherish their cars more

[tornado542]

The reason the LGT died is because all the people on this forum took their $30k and bought an STi...so technically...enthusiasts killed the LGT.

Enjoy your lego block STi interiors lolz

[kirbykirb]

Originally Posted by tornado542

The reason the LGT died is because all the people on this forum took their $30k and bought an STi...so technically...enthusiasts killed the LGT.

Enjoy your lego block STi interiors lolz

This, why would you want more weight w/ the same size engine and a turbo that was considered to be more unreliable?

[Wiscon_Mark]

Originally Posted by kirbykirb

This, why would you want more weight w/ the same size engine and a turbo that was considered to be more unreliable?

As has been covered 100 times, the turbo wasn't the problem. The clogged pre-turbo filter was.

And to answer your question: Refinement. The LGT was more like a European sports sedan for a lot less money. With more press, it would have sold better to people looking for an alternative to an Audi or BMW with less cash on hand.

[totallynormal1]

won't it still be possible to turbo the new ones, even if they do not come that way stock. it kind of is the same motor they use in other models

[Wiscon_Mark]

Originally Posted by totallynormal1

won't it still be possible to turbo the new ones, even if they do not come that way stock. it kind of is the same motor they use in other models

Sure, you can turbo anything. But that engine hasn't been done from factory yet (Impreza, Forester, BRZ) so it would be stuff from scratch. I'm guessing the configuration isn't that different than the EJ, but who knows what challenges it would bring.

[mr_csl]

Originally Posted by UnaturallyAspirated

It just makes the Leggy owners cherish their cars more

This unfortunately reminds me of what they did with the Nissan Maxima. Take a sporty car and turn it into a Toyota Avalon competitor (except with an engine).