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Old 04-13-2012, 08:30 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default U.S. regulators seek brake-throttle override mandate for all light vehicles Read mor


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U.S. regulators today proposed a requirement that light vehicles have an override mechanism that enables a driver to stop a car or truck if the accelerator pedal gets stuck.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it was proposing the brake-throttle override rule because research showed it can reduce the risk of high-speed unintended acceleration and prevent crashes.
The override technology, which many automakers already make available, enables drivers to stop a vehicle if the brake and accelerator are depressed at the same time.

NHTSA will hold a 60-day public comment period once the proposal is published in the Federal Register. After the public comment period, NHTSA will review the proposal before it finalizes the requirement.
The federal agency didn't offer an estimate on how much it would cost manufacturers to add the technology, only saying it could be done "without significant difficulty or cost."

"America's drivers should feel confident that anytime they get behind the wheel they can easily maintain control of their vehicles -- especially in the event of an emergency," U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said in a statement.
"By updating our safety standards, we're helping give drivers peace of mind that their brakes will work even if the gas pedal is stuck down while the driver is trying to brake."

The proposal comes in the wake of 2009 and 2010 recalls by Toyota Motor Corp. for problems related to unintended acceleration. The automaker ended up recalling millions of Toyota and Lexus vehicles worldwide and paying fines of $48.8 million for failing to order the recall in a timely manner.cq per clips

A 10-month investigation by NASA and NHTSA into the matter found no electronic defect in Toyota models. The agencies blamed the incidents on pedals that got stuck or caught under floor mats.
Since the Toyota recall, regulators have become more aggressive about addressing the issue. NHTSA has been exploring a brake-throttle override system mandate since 2010.

Thousands of reports
NHTSA officials did not mention the Toyota recall in a statement today about the proposed requirement. But in the rule's proposal, the agency notes that it received "thousands" of reports of unattended acceleration over a 10-year period starting in January 2000cq.

Said NHTSA administrator David Strickland: "We learned as part of the comprehensive NASA and NHTSA studies of high-speed unintended acceleration that brake override systems could help drivers avoid crashes."
The technology works by cutting power to the engine when the brake and accelerator pedals are pressed.

NHTSA, by ordering all vehicles be equipped with the systems, said it aims to reduce the risk of drivers losing control if accelerator electronics fail or the pedal gets stuck or trapped by the floor mat.

Toyota has made brake-override systems standard on all models beginning with the 2011 model year. Other automakers such as Chrysler Group, Ford Motor Co., General Motors, Hyundai Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. also offer override mechanism on some or all of their models.

The Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers said it has supported the brake-override standard since 2010, when the rule was first proposed.
The alliance, which represents 12 automakers, including the Detroit 3, said it's still reviewing NHTSA's proposal and expects to offer input during the public comment period.

Rigorous standard
Clarence Ditlow, executive director for the Center for Auto Safety in Washingtoncq, said the Toyota recall helped cast a spotlight on the dangers of unintended acceleration. His group has been pushing for the regulation since the advent of electronic throttle controls.
NHTSA's success will largely depend on "how rigorous the standard is," Ditlow said.

A simple software fix won't always suffice, he added, since it will only upgrade the vehicle's existing electronic control unit. If that unit is already compromised, it won't help.

Rather, Ditlow said carmakers should consider installing a second control unit, one separate from the main electronic controls, to monitor pedal activity.


NHTSA's proposal doesn't specify how carmakers should design their override systems, only that they pass certain performance tests.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:07 AM   #2
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And... what's this going to do to those of us that track their cars? Can the brake/throttle override be... overridden?

I.e.: those that left foot brake. Not only racers, but also a large amount of the public, especially older/elderly, left foot brake because of the time it takes to move their arthritic limbs from a resting position to the brake. By LFB, they have it ready. Now, if it cuts the gas, they're going to be slowing/stopping even more, causing what? Unintended rear end collisions by elderly wondering why their new car won't even go forward.

I really hope the AARP is all over this.

Then there's those on a hill in a manual... braking and gas at the same time... not gonna go anywhere. This could really push to the end of the manual because of that.

--kC
(I'll write my letter. )
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:24 AM   #3
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It doesn't mean **** when you mash the throttle thinking it's the brakes...
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Then there's those on a hill in a manual... braking and gas at the same time...
Who the heck does that? Most of your complaints can be addressed by driver training and getting people physically unsuitable for driving (e.g. some elderly) off the road.

Otherwise I agree, this is a stupid regulation. Brakes already win in a contest with the engine as it is. And most/all of the unintended acceleration incidents turn out to not involve the brake pedal in the first place.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:40 AM   #5
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U.S. regulators today proposed............





I freaking give up...

These Aholes will never stop justifying their pathetic existence
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:10 AM   #6
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because people are to stupid to put in neutral or turn the key?
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:11 AM   #7
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because people are to stupid to put in neutral or turn the key?
Anybody stupid enough to turn the key needs to be off the road.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:20 AM   #8
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because people are to stupid to put in neutral or turn the key?
What if the key is in your pocket, under the lap belt?

I guess it comes down to how sensitive the values are for gas and brake. 90%90% for both? I'd be fine with that. 10%/15% yeah, that's going to be a problem.

--kC
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:32 PM   #9
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:37 PM   #10
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You'll need something similar to this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=Iw3G80bplTg#!
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:41 PM   #11
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What if the key is in your pocket, under the lap belt?

I guess it comes down to how sensitive the values are for gas and brake. 90%90% for both? I'd be fine with that. 10%/15% yeah, that's going to be a problem.

--kC
pushing the start button twice, or holding it down, or whatever the manual states as the emergency shutoff still works, and a driver should know how to handle their car.

Hazards.
Neutral.
If the engine races in neutral, shut it down.
Pull off to the side of the road while you coast down.
assess the situation.
Call roadside assistance, a relative or friend, or the police.

It is not that hard, if people would pay attention to preparedness.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:31 PM   #12
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As long as the override can be overridden, I support it. If it reduces the chances of an incompetent driver rear ending me then why not. The only thing it will really cost is development hours used to make sure it passes the government checks. No hardware changes will be needed, since every vehicle has drive by wire now.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:01 AM   #13
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As long as the override can be overridden, I support it. If it reduces the chances of an incompetent driver rear ending me then why not. The only thing it will really cost is development hours used to make sure it passes the government checks. No hardware changes will be needed, since every vehicle has drive by wire now.
Why not just eliminate the bad drivers all together from the equation. People managed lives (and still do) without cars. You can't handle one, I don't care if you can afford it, you don't drive one. That simple.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:40 AM   #14
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I would rather they just went with the consistent shut off method.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:42 AM   #15
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Why not just eliminate the bad drivers all together from the equation. People managed lives (and still do) without cars. You can't handle one, I don't care if you can afford it, you don't drive one. That simple.
What planet are you living on?
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #16
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I miss simple smaller cars from the early 90s. enough of this nanny state ****.
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Old 04-14-2012, 04:32 PM   #17
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Lambo, Ferrari, McLaren, Porsche and all German cars already have this. If it doesn't ruin those cars, it's probably not going to ruin Versas and Accords.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:12 PM   #18
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Good idea to have an overide, but the method to overide it is too ambiguous. They could have just build it into the computer to allow it to sense it automatically, and have it handle it from there?
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
And... what's this going to do to those of us that track their cars? Can the brake/throttle override be... overridden?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
As long as the override can be overridden, I support it.
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:17 PM   #20
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VW has had this on all of their cars since the 80s. You never hear people complain about it since they have it implemented in a way that doesn't affect normal commutes or spirited driving.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:25 AM   #21
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It doesn't mean **** when you mash the throttle thinking it's the brakes...
This. Outside of the cop in a lexus due to the carpet, every single incident was dumb drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake. This changes nothing but adds further un-needed costs to cars. Way to go politicians, glad to see the economy is back on track for you to waste time on nonesense like this. Oh wait...
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:36 AM   #22
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This. Outside of the cop in a lexus due to the carpet, every single incident was dumb drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake.
If you ignore the 4.2 million Toyotas with faulty accelerator pedals, that's correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2...r_pedal_recall
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:40 PM   #23
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This. Outside of the cop in a lexus due to the carpet, every single incident was dumb drivers hitting the gas instead of the brake. This changes nothing but adds further un-needed costs to cars. Way to go politicians, glad to see the economy is back on track for you to waste time on nonesense like this. Oh wait...
This really should not be adding any notable cost to a vehicle, virtually all new cars have electronic throttle control, they just need to change the behavior when both pedals are being mashed down.

Now there is some other stuff I have a problem with, like new airbag regulations to help air bags keep non-belted passengers inside vehicles during accidents. That will add a tangible cost to each and every vehicle, and only helps to protect people that willingly made a choice to be less safe by not using the belt. Personally I think if you didn't have a seat belt on, you are asking for it and insurance shouldn't even cover the medical costs.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:34 PM   #24
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If you ignore the 4.2 million Toyotas with faulty accelerator pedals, that's correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009%E2...r_pedal_recall
Except that was nothing more then people over-reacting to something that didn't exist and toyota made the recall as a PR call. They also studied every alleged car that accelerated out of control and found every single one was not defective at all. Thank Obamedia for blowing it out of proportion to try and discredit toyotas in an attempt to get people into mexi-american made cars.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:13 PM   #25
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Except that was nothing more then people over-reacting to something that didn't exist and toyota made the recall as a PR call. They also studied every alleged car that accelerated out of control and found every single one was not defective at all. Thank Obamedia for blowing it out of proportion to try and discredit toyotas in an attempt to get people into mexi-american made cars.
Oh dear.
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