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Old 04-16-2012, 10:41 AM   #1
riored4v
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Default Upgrade stock speakers..

Anyone upgraded their stock speakers without the use of an aftermarket amp? If so, was it worth it? I'm not trying to go over-the-top with the audio, and consider the stock speakers to be pretty decent. However, the thought of just replacing the stock ones to get the sound a little more clear sounds appealing. I've replaced the HU with a Pioneer and also have a sub. I've seen some adapters that will plug in to the stock wiring harness that allow for aftermarket speakers (although cant remembers where), so i was thinking of going this route if it would be worth it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:42 PM   #2
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Not worth the time / $ IMO.

My setup progression:
  1. Stock
  2. Matted the front doors (inner and outter): AMAZING!!! Got much better bass, and no more farking door card rattles
  3. Added Pioneer HU. Enjoyed the new EQ, Power, input options. Sound wise it was a slight increase
  4. Had some CTX comps laying around. Spent 8+ hours making speaker spacers and replaced the stock speakers. Outcome: COMPLETE AND UTTER WASTE!!! Lost bass, had to redo my EQ and it's back to almost stock bass levels. Clears are a tiny bit better.

Now, granted, I'm eventually gonna add an amp and a sub down the line, so my tune my change once I'm throwing 125w to the fronts. But IMO please please please do not replace you 2011+ fronts if you're just gonna run HU only power to them.

My specific post just after I had installed them: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...7&postcount=25 That thread discusses the stock speakers, fyi

Last edited by Mike 01Hawk; 04-16-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:51 PM   #3
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With my current setup, I have a 1000w sub/amp combo so I'm really just looking to clean up the mid's and high's. Still feel that that an upgraded HU running through upgraded speakers would be worthless?

Obviously I could add an amp to the combo, but as mentioned, i'm just going for a budget upgrade.
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Old 04-17-2012, 06:37 PM   #4
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the fundamental questions NEVER change:

1. What types of music do you listen too? "Everything" is not an answer. Electronica? Trance? Country? Classical? rock? Hip-Slop?

2. How do you listen? Meaning: do you listen for yourself or for the next 15 cars in the grid lock? No wrong answers. But be honest. If broadcasting your tunes is important, then the speaker choice, and overall system design changes drastically.

3. What format do you play your music? If you listen to iPod/iPhone/MP3 downloads, then we need to discuss HOW you download your music. Loss from the compression process impacts dynamics. If you listen to home made CDr's there is another realm of issues. FORMAT MATTERS folks!

4. BUDGET! plain and simple... how much $$ you have to spend = how much enjoyment you MIGHT find in a speaker set.

5. TRUST YOUR EARS. Ignore the jack-ass at the audio store's pitch. Ignore the billions of posts on forums about what sounds "awesome"... you have (2) ears, a brain, and your own music... <GASP!> go LISTEN to YOUR MUSIC on systems similar to what you think will work for your space, budget, set up...

Lastly.. shop online to establish FAIR pricing and then go BACK to the local shops and negotiate.

People who are happy do this with me every day... It's my day job... <grin>

Rob
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:32 PM   #5
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1) For the most part, its rock, country, electronic music. I like clear high's and deep low's.

2) I listed for my mood. I typically listen at an average volume, but do like cranking it up from time to time.

3) Most my music is mp3/Zune format plugged in through the aux jack.

4) Budget isn't extreme. I don't want to get in to custom enclosures, etc. Ideally would like to do it all for under $400.

The only reason I might do the local shops would be to have them install it if I'm feeling lazy. I typically havent had much luck there and have put together most my stereos through online purchases.
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:50 PM   #6
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ok... so you are wanting to power XX or YY new speakers from the New pioneer HU?

IF so... you need to look at speakers with a sensitivity of 90db and higher... the higher the db the better. Alpine's S-series components and coaxes are in the 90-92db range and are specifically designed for running off HU power. Above all do NOT buy anything Infinity to run off HU power. They are horrible in the midbass range off even a moderate amp power, let alone whimpy HU power.

Like when buying a head unit. You gotta take your music, in the format you will listen most (ipod/MP3, CDr, whatever) and listen to speakers that make YOU happy. Ignore the jackass with the name tag telling you what to hear. Yeah, that's me... Im the jack ass... LOL. I've been doing this long enough i try to let my customers listen for themselves and only answer questions, not tell them what to hear.

After you find a BRAND who's sonic signature makes your ears happy, then start shopping online for the different levels inside that brand's line. figure out what you are comfy spending and then TRY to find a local dealer, TRY to haggle, but bottom line is $$ talks.

Rob
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:32 PM   #7
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thanks for the info

Do you know if those alpine's will fit in the stock locations?

And correct, I'm looking to power the speakers the Pioneer HU. Yes, I know I SHOULD run an amp, but I really dont want to run the wiring along with all the associated stuff to run an additional amp. Yes, i realize i'm half-azzing it, but I'm just wanting to clean up the sound a little more. So thats great to hear that those alpine's are designed to work off of HU power.
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Old 04-18-2012, 03:58 AM   #8
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Yes, I have upgraded my OEM speakers W/out the use of an aftermarket external amplifier. Was it worth it? Depends & varies user to user. It's difficult to find a set of aftermarket speakers that will sound good off of 18-22 rms or so (most HU's put ou this). Often, you will find that aftermarket speakers are spec'd at nearly twice, or even three times that amount.

I am almost guranteeing an audible notice in SQ. I am almost also guranteeing that your aftermarket speakers will clip at high-er volumes.

Was it worth it for me? Yes. I purchased individual drivers based on the specs I was given & suited accordingly. It's up to you. If you are going to take the step than I'd advise you to properly treat your doors appropriately.


"What type of music do you listen to?"

^Why does this matter? Regardless of how cone composition may sound better at "X" frequency than another, the listener may prefer a wide range of genre. Example: I listen to rap, so I am assuming you may recommend me a set of speakers W/ a good mid? When I say "good," I mean "beefy." -You catch my drift. Well, how do you I don't enjoy the robust natural presence of paper cones. I also listen to Shania Twain & Mariah. Now what are you going to recommend me?

Here, this may help: "New To 2012! The All New Universal Cone Composition specifically engineered to kick asss from Elton John to Eazy E!

^Exactly.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:27 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ Dreamer View Post
Yes, I have upgraded my OEM speakers W/out the use of an aftermarket external amplifier. Was it worth it? Depends & varies user to user. It's difficult to find a set of aftermarket speakers that will sound good off of 18-22 rms or so (most HU's put ou this). Often, you will find that aftermarket speakers are spec'd at nearly twice, or even three times that amount.

I am almost guranteeing an audible notice in SQ. I am almost also guranteeing that your aftermarket speakers will clip at high-er volumes.

Was it worth it for me? Yes. I purchased individual drivers based on the specs I was given & suited accordingly. It's up to you. If you are going to take the step than I'd advise you to properly treat your doors appropriately.


"What type of music do you listen to?"

^Why does this matter? Regardless of how cone composition may sound better at "X" frequency than another, the listener may prefer a wide range of genre. Example: I listen to rap, so I am assuming you may recommend me a set of speakers W/ a good mid? When I say "good," I mean "beefy." -You catch my drift. Well, how do you I don't enjoy the robust natural presence of paper cones. I also listen to Shania Twain & Mariah. Now what are you going to recommend me?

Here, this may help: "New To 2012! The All New Universal Cone Composition specifically engineered to kick asss from Elton John to Eazy E!

^Exactly.

I do plan on lining the doors with some Dynamat (or something similar) when I take the panels off to put new speakers in, but thats was probably going to be the extent of :customizing".

That last quote referencing Elton John and Eazy E.. is that for a new product?

And yea, I believe my HU is 22rms 50max


These seem like a decent option for me:
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_130TSA1...4R.html?tp=105

Thoughts?

Last edited by riored4v; 04-18-2012 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:41 AM   #10
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^ LOL, no that is not a new product. ...at least that I'm aware of. In my opinion, asking genre is irrelevant as basically everyone listens to a variety.

I would rather see your money go to CLD tiles than "Dynamat." Why? I have tested MANY types of deadeners & Don's products are superior Here: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:42 AM   #11
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^^^^^
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ Dreamer View Post
^ LOL, no that is not a new product. ...at least that I'm aware of. In my opinion, asking genre is irrelevant as basically everyone listens to a variety.

I would rather see your money go to CLD tiles than "Dynamat." Why? I have tested MANY types of deadeners & Don's products are superior Here: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi

nice. thanks. I'll read up on that a bit more later, but the pricing on it seems extremely reasonable. I'll order some CCF from him as well since I was needing some for my interior rear decklid.

Any thoughts on the speakers I linked?

Also, does anyone have any experience with these speaker harnesses? I planned on using these to connect the aftermarket speakers: http://www.ebay.com/itm/72-8104-Toyo...-/280759145191
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:09 AM   #13
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You're on your own W/ speakers. I'm not sure why you chose coaxial over component. I'm also not aware of depth in your Subaru or any other circumstances. I feel for less than $100.00, you can do better > sonicelectronix.com

Don't get me wrong. Crutchfield is a great website w/ kick ass tech support, but what's the point of "buying online" when you have to pay near full retail/MSRP ha

I'm not "downing" Pioneeer either. I love the PRS, but I have owned THAT specific set of coaxials & think you can do better w/ $100.00, but preference is tossed out.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ Dreamer View Post
You're on your own W/ speakers. I'm not sure why you chose coaxial over component. I'm also not aware of depth in your Subaru or any other circumstances. I feel for less than $100.00, you can do better > sonicelectronix.com

Don't get me wrong. Crutchfield is a great website w/ kick ass tech support, but what's the point of "buying online" when you have to pay near full retail/MSRP ha

I'm not "downing" Pioneeer either. I love the PRS, but I have owned THAT specific set of coaxials & think you can do better w/ $100.00, but preference is tossed out.
I just like using Crutchfield to help me find some stuff that fits with no issues. I dont order from them. I'll usually go through woofers.etc, sonicelectronix.com, etc once I know what I want to get.

I'll keep looking around.

*edit* regardin coaxial vs component. The coaxial speakers seem to be better matched to my low RMS output. I was finding those down in the 30RMS range vs the components I was seeing are around 50RMS.

Last edited by riored4v; 04-18-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:45 AM   #15
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Your Toyota speaker harnesses you linked are great. They're what I've used when I went aftermarket fronts so I can go back to stock if needed.
Since I have free prime, I bought them off amazon:
Amazon.com: Metra 72-8104 Speaker Connector for Select Toyota Vehicles: Car ElectronicsAmazon.com: Metra 72-8104 Speaker Connector for Select Toyota Vehicles: Car Electronics


As for deadner, I went with Fatmat Mega Mat off ebay. It was the most economical at the time, I spit a 100sq/ft roll with a buddy. With 50 sq/ft I've done in/outer front door skins on 2 cars now and still have plenty left over to spot apply if needed. So you could split that $250 roll 4 ways with some buddies and only be out $62.50 for mat.

Last edited by Mike 01Hawk; 04-18-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #16
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As for fronts, skip coaxials. You want components. It's easy to get an aftermarket tweet in the stock sail panel with a bit of dremeling.

Polks seem to have good favor on here. $110 so they won't break the bank:
Amazon.com: Polk Audio DB6501 6.5-Inch 2-Way Component System (Pair, Silver): ElectronicsAmazon.com: Polk Audio DB6501 6.5-Inch 2-Way Component System (Pair, Silver): Electronics
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike 01Hawk View Post
As for fronts, skip coaxials. You want components. It's easy to get an aftermarket tweet in the stock sail panel with a bit of dremeling.

Polks seem to have good favor on here. $110 so they won't break the bank:
Amazon.com: Polk Audio DB6501 6.5-Inch 2-Way Component System (Pair, Silver): Electronics

I had wondered if the tweets would fit in the stock location. Maybe I'll go ahead with some components for the front then and then go with a coaxial setup for the rear?

Those Polks are 100w RMS, so i would be underpowering them pretty severly. Should I try to find a lower RMS setup? I was seeing some Pioneer, PPI, MB Quart, RF and JL Audio versions down in the 50w RMS range.
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:53 PM   #18
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IMO skip the $ and time spent on upgrading rears. Just run them off HU power and fad your HU so the 'stage' appears to come from the front.

I'm running these guys off my Pioneer:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...CTX-6.5cs.html
They have a recommend range of 25-200w with a 89 dB sensitivity. I just have them crossed over @ 63hz so they aren't getting too much bass on stock Pioneer power. Still plenty loud/clear. Plus I have room to grow when I finally get around to adding an amp.

Those polks are even more efficient at 92 db, so they'd be great for Aftermarket HU power or better yet of course with a small amp.

DEW EET!!!

And dam myself for looking at those Polks, I'm thinking I might have to swap my CTXs for them Polks. They should definitely sound better in my current setup.
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:05 PM   #19
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Alright, I might go with those Polks then. The reviews seem solid on them and the price is right.

Still torn on what to do, if anything, to the rear since I can get some Polk coaxial's for $80 http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...io-db651s.html which look to match up to the component setup pretty nicely.


With the front's, would I need to get speaker brackets to make them work?
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Old 04-18-2012, 01:40 PM   #20
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SKIP. THE. REARS.

Dunno about spacers. Look around for 2008+ people running the DB6501 and see what the have to say. I had to run spacers for my CTXs.
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ Dreamer View Post
....

"What type of music do you listen to?"

^Why does this matter? Regardless of how cone composition may sound better at "X" frequency than another, the listener may prefer a wide range of genre. Example: I listen to rap, so I am assuming you may recommend me a set of speakers W/ a good mid? When I say "good," I mean "beefy." -You catch my drift. Well, how do you I don't enjoy the robust natural presence of paper cones. I also listen to Shania Twain & Mariah. Now what are you going to recommend me?

Here, this may help: "New To 2012! The All New Universal Cone Composition specifically engineered to kick asss from Elton John to Eazy E!

^Exactly.
Thanks for playing... this is EXACTLY why PROFESSIONALS ask what types of music customers listen too. That fact Kool-Moe-D to Shania Twain listener is going to get a different BRAND of speaker when coupled with several other factors... Like Deck power vs amp power? CD, Sat radio, or iPod/Mp3?

You are taking your own "knowledge" as a SQ guy and forgetting that others are not as advanced. I am 210% CD/CDr listener with Sat radio on the commute. I don't like the sound of MP3/iPod.. just me. I wouldn't recommend 90% of what's out there for the way I listen because if you haven't torn up your ears listening to crap, you'll hear every lil defect in MP3 conversion/compression. I've spent 30+ of my 44 years on this planet protecting my hearing. I value music that much... But I am not selling or recommending to ME.. I am recommending to someone 1/2 the country away.

His/Her ears... Simple process... Take His/Her music in the FORMAT they listen to and GO LISTEN TO SPEAKERS... Don't have to buy them at Car Toys, Best buy, wherever.. but they have to go listen.

Boston Acoustics sound differently than MB Quart vs Rainbow, Kenwood or Alpine or JL Audio. Hundreds of companies out there and the only way to please his/her own ear is the LISTEN...

Rob
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQ Dreamer View Post
^ LOL, no that is not a new product. ...at least that I'm aware of. In my opinion, asking genre is irrelevant as basically everyone listens to a variety.

I would rather see your money go to CLD tiles than "Dynamat." Why? I have tested MANY types of deadeners & Don's products are superior Here: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
agreed
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:31 PM   #23
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Component front is a given. skip the rears... spend that $$ on a moderate amp...

If you aren't going to go listen/audition speakers than at least be sure to look at the specs and get the highest sensitivity (90db+) speaker set you can find.

A component set with bi-amp capability later on down the road when a 4-ch amp is feasible, will make you even happier.

rob
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:50 PM   #24
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Thanks guys for everyones help.

When searching threads for spacers for the DB6501's, it seems like almost everyone is in agreeance on skipping rear speakers and just running the components upfront.

TX - I would really like to listen to them first, but I'm having issues finding this set of speakers at a local shop, so I'll probably be going off the forums and internet reviews. They are rated at 92db, so i should be ok with them.

Looking forward to the change
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:17 PM   #25
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In for ideas
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