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Old 04-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #1
m0nkey
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Unhappy Wrx sputtering hesitation when boosting.

I have searched about this topic already and nothing is related to my symptom. It doesn't happen at idle or normal driving only under boost. Let's start from the beginning. I had Todd at TNA Performance install my set up and preformed a timing belt job. After everything was finish I took my car to Brad at engine logics to have my car pro tuned and to fix a vacuum leak. I got my car back from engine logics for the day and everything was working fine. I went WOT in 1-3rd gear and I can feel the power smoothly.

The next day when I drove to school was when everything went bad. I tried to do a WOT pull on the freeway and the sputtering (happens only when im boosting) started to happen. I tired it again in a different gear and the same sputtering happened again. I got to school popped open my hood and I see smoke coming near the turbo side on top of the engine head.

I took my car back to Brad and it turned out to be one of my injector gasket was leaking fuel. I had brad next fixed the leak and my car still sputters. He told me to try and change out the spark plugs and check for the proper gaping. Which is what I did today and it still sputters. My next attempt would be my coil packs. I am not throwing a check engine light. I changed my MAF 6 months ago, I changed my fuel filter at the same time.

Cliffs
-Tna installed my upgrades
-Brad tuned my car
-Car ran fine when I got my car back for a day
-Next day went WOT on the freeway car began to sputter
-Opened hood at school saw smoke coming from gas being burnt on top of the head.
-Brad fixed the injector leak and it still sputters
-Installed new NGK spark plugs with proper tapping and still sputters

I tired to be as detailed as I could that's why it was so long

Also does anyone know what this plug is for?



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Last edited by m0nkey; 04-21-2012 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:46 AM   #2
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I just ordered 4 new coilpacks hopefully it will end well
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:44 AM   #3
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What kind of boost controller do you have ebcs or man or stock? Do you have a boost gauge? If so what's the vac on idle? What psi is the car tuned for and is the boost pegging or bouncing all over. Sounds like a boost related issue.

That plug is unplugged on my car too. I have no idea what it is.
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Old 04-22-2012, 04:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother EddieJ. View Post
What kind of boost controller do you have ebcs or man or stock? Do you have a boost gauge? If so what's the vac on idle? What psi is the car tuned for and is the boost pegging or bouncing all over. Sounds like a boost related issue.

That plug is unplugged on my car too. I have no idea what it is.
I have a grimmspeed ebcs. I will double check my vac at idle as well as target boost(its set to 21psi). I am just confused because it happened out of no where. I was boosting just fine before the injector leak. I searched that your coilpacks can be either bad or worn out. I know it's not bad because I don't have any cel. And it only happens under boost.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:41 PM   #5
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Here is a picture at idle, and also on full boost it boost fine, theres no bouncing at all, judt a smooth swipe .Also my external wastegate doesn't sound as loud as it did before my injector leak


Last edited by m0nkey; 04-23-2012 at 03:52 AM.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:54 AM   #6
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Looks like you have a vacuum leak. Vacuum at idle should be between 18-20 inhg. Boost leak test it.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow27AU View Post
Looks like you have a vacuum leak. Vacuum at idle should be between 18-20 inhg. Boost leak test it.
Ill try to search for any leaks. But by the mean time here is a picture of learning view of my car.


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Old 04-24-2012, 12:42 AM   #8
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I just sprayed carb choke cleaner around any vacuum lines and i came up with nothing. What else can i do before my coil packs arrive? I double checked all the vacuum lines to make sure none of them are loose.

I put back my oem wrx tmic while my new intercooler is coming in the mail, would this have anything to do with my sputtering?
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:26 PM   #9
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Post up your full spec list
Do you have your TGVs deleted?

Id be concerned about that high end knock thats been learnt, also I think you rom ranges could be set up better regardless.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kastley85891 View Post
Post up your full spec list
Do you have your TGVs deleted?

Id be concerned about that high end knock thats been learnt, also I think you rom ranges could be set up better regardless.
Blouch evo 3 16g, tgv deletes, 38mm tial external wastegate, grimmspeed up pipe. V2 invidia downpipe, oem Wrx tmic for now (hyperflow coming in the mail), 930cc injectors, walbro 255, samco turbo inlet, grimmspeed ebcs, 3" spt catback, NGK 1 step colder plugs, port and polish exhaust manifold.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:42 PM   #11
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AP or OS tune? Possibly your TGV codes need turning off, that would be a simple fix for your temp codes.
Do you have a WBo2?
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:06 PM   #12
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[quote="m0nkey"]I just sprayed carb choke cleaner around any vacuum lines and i came up with nothing. What else can i do before my coil packs arrive? I double checked all the vacuum lines to make sure none of them are loose.

I put back my oem wrx tmic while my new intercooler is coming in the mail, would this have anything to do with my sputtering?[/QUOTE


You reinstalled the tmic then the problem happened?


And don't trust your boost/vac gauge till its been calibrated
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Old 04-24-2012, 06:38 PM   #13
m0nkey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kastley85891 View Post
AP or OS tune? Possibly your TGV codes need turning off, that would be a simple fix for your temp codes.
Do you have a WBo2?

Open source tune, I don't have a wideband but I have a hole tapped on my downpipe for one.


[quote=dirtslayer;36969749]
Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkey
I just sprayed carb choke cleaner around any vacuum lines and i came up with nothing. What else can i do before my coil packs arrive? I double checked all the vacuum lines to make sure none of them are loose.

I put back my oem wrx tmic while my new intercooler is coming in the mail, would this have anything to do with my sputtering?[/QUOTE


You reinstalled the tmic then the problem happened?


And don't trust your boost/vac gauge till its been calibrated
No it happened with my sti intercooler. I don't trust it either at least it gives me a ballpark of what is going on
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Old 04-24-2012, 07:35 PM   #14
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Ok.
At idle you should be around 19-21hg vac on stock cams. Get smoke tested, the carb clean/ether trick doesn't really work that well with multiple leaks
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:44 AM   #15
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Was the weather different when it was tuned vs. when it started sputtering? Possibly just a tad different, like 10-20*F cooler outside?

What are your plugs gapped at? Its very possible the gap is too large, causing misfiring under boost. I had this happen after going from a vf34 to a 16g.

There really is no "proper gapping," that can be assumed for all cars; it depends on one's setup.

Last edited by mowgli29; 04-25-2012 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:03 AM   #16
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Well its not your coil packs..... so dont even waste your time with them and hopefully you can get your money back. If its sputtering like that commonly it is the front (primary) o2 sensor that has taken a crap or has a damaged wire. Swap an o2 sensor with a buddy if you can since they are expensive. Many people might even suggest that there is a tune issue but I wouldnt think so because it ran fine the day before with out you doing anything. If you dont have a CEL its hard to say what it could be for sure. If you were boosting and driving hard the day before it is also possible the Fuel pressure regulator on the passenger side fuel rail is stuck or not working. Check the vacuum line that goes from the FPR to the intake manifold, its only about 2in long and commonly cracks/splits. Maybe it was just sheer luck that it split and now you dont have proper vacuum to it under pressure because the pressure in the I.M under boost will make the crack/split widen causing the FPR to just stay closed.

as for that random connector..... not sure about that unless you could get a really clear pic of the harness leading out of it. Almost looks like the connector on the purge solenoid but I dont think it could reach to there.
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Old 04-25-2012, 04:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowgli29 View Post
Was the weather different when it was tuned vs. when it started sputtering? Possibly just a tad different, like 10-20*F cooler outside?

What are your plugs gapped at? Its very possible the gap is too large, causing misfiring under boost. I had this happen after going from a vf34 to a 16g.

There really is no "proper gapping," that can be assumed for all cars; it depends on one's setup.

We gapped the new NGK irrdiums at 0.030. As for the weather it happens in all climate condition colder or hotter. It was tuned around 90degrees. So should I tighten the gap more?


Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Wagon View Post
Well its not your coil packs..... so dont even waste your time with them and hopefully you can get your money back. If its sputtering like that commonly it is the front (primary) o2 sensor that has taken a crap or has a damaged wire. Swap an o2 sensor with a buddy if you can since they are expensive. Many people might even suggest that there is a tune issue but I wouldnt think so because it ran fine the day before with out you doing anything. If you dont have a CEL its hard to say what it could be for sure. If you were boosting and driving hard the day before it is also possible the Fuel pressure regulator on the passenger side fuel rail is stuck or not working. Check the vacuum line that goes from the FPR to the intake manifold, its only about 2in long and commonly cracks/splits. Maybe it was just sheer luck that it split and now you dont have proper vacuum to it under pressure because the pressure in the I.M under boost will make the crack/split widen causing the FPR to just stay closed.

as for that random connector..... not sure about that unless you could get a really clear pic of the harness leading out of it. Almost looks like the connector on the purge solenoid but I dont think it could reach to there.
it only happens at wot or under hard accerlerarion. If I apply 30% throttle the car doesn't sputter but once I flat foot it, it goes down the drain. I will check out that hose tomorrow morning. Is there any possible way that when my injector started to leak it made the fuel pressure regulator to go bad? Is there anyway to test this? I ordered the coilpacks from rockauto so I know I can return them with no doubt.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkey View Post
We gapped the new NGK irrdiums at 0.030. As for the weather it happens in all climate condition colder or hotter. It was tuned around 90degrees. So should I tighten the gap more?
are you absolutely certain that you gapped those iridiums properly?

iridium plugs are notoriously difficult to gap without damaging them.

(for the life of me i don't know why people just don't get coppers and replace them annually.)

Quote:
it only happens at wot or under hard accerlerarion. If I apply 30% throttle the car doesn't sputter but once I flat foot it, it goes down the drain.
this sounds like either 1) an open loop issue or 2) a high load ignition issue or 3) a tune issue

1) contains fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, maf sensor
2) contains coil packs, plugs
3) contains some other ecu parameters/maps

your learning view looks pretty reasonable. that would indicate that your fuel delivery and air metering are ok. a massive boost/vacuum leak that would cause that kind of issue would show up in the trims. you could test this with an intake pressure rig.

a coilpack/plug issue USUALLY shows up as misfire codes in the ecu. however, there is no way of knowing if those have been turned off in your car. and again, gapping IR plugs is generally avoided because of how delicate the center pin is.

like Kastley85891, what DOES concern me are your stored codes for TGV operation. TGV codes CAN and WILL trigger limp modes, and the symptoms are very much like the ones you are describing. you need to get your rom flashed again with those codes disabled.
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Old 04-25-2012, 10:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkey View Post
We gapped the new NGK irrdiums at 0.030. As for the weather it happens in all climate condition colder or hotter. It was tuned around 90degrees. So should I tighten the gap more?
IMO, yes.

I'm running .027 (IIRC) and I still need to close it a tad more. I had to back off the boost a little, because if i run 20+ psi, I'll usually misfire at WOT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m0nkey View Post
it only happens at wot or under hard accerlerarion. If I apply 30% throttle the car doesn't sputter but once I flat foot it, it goes down the drain..
This is exactly what happened to me before i closed the gap on my plugs. I troubleshot this issue for almost a month before I figured out my gap was too big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
are you absolutely certain that you gapped those iridiums properly?

iridium plugs are notoriously difficult to gap without damaging them.

(for the life of me i don't know why people just don't get coppers and replace them annually.)
+1
...and I wonder the same thing. My car had coppers in it when I bought it, and I put ~55k miles on them with no issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
this sounds like either 1) an open loop issue or 2) a high load ignition issue or 3) a tune issue

1) contains fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, maf sensor
2) contains coil packs, plugs
3) contains some other ecu parameters/maps

your learning view looks pretty reasonable. that would indicate that your fuel delivery and air metering are ok. a massive boost/vacuum leak that would cause that kind of issue would show up in the trims. you could test this with an intake pressure rig.

a coilpack/plug issue USUALLY shows up as misfire codes in the ecu. however, there is no way of knowing if those have been turned off in your car. and again, gapping IR plugs is generally avoided because of how delicate the center pin is.

like Kastley85891, what DOES concern me are your stored codes for TGV operation. TGV codes CAN and WILL trigger limp modes, and the symptoms are very much like the ones you are describing. you need to get your rom flashed again with those codes disabled.
+1 to all of this!
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Old 04-25-2012, 11:27 PM   #20
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No im getting a misfire in cylinder 1,2,3. This map was created by Kastley85891, to help isolate the sputtering issue. With Kastley's map the sputtering was reduced to a minimum, I still felt a little of sputtering but not as must as before.

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Old 04-26-2012, 07:10 AM   #21
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could be a crank position sensor on the way out...
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:55 AM   #22
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You are getting a misfire because of the vac leak. We have boost gauges for a reason. You are way over thinking this at idle you should be a 20in/hg. That proves you have a leak. Pressure test the system, find the leak and bam problem solved. Under negative vac you are pushing metered air out under positive vacuum you are sucking in unmetered air. What you are doing now is wasting your time and money.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:25 AM   #23
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so you guys are saying that a vacuum leak letting in 3% too much air causes misfires?

i find that highly unlikely.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:04 PM   #24
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Deleted

Last edited by tairyhesticles; 04-26-2012 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Thought this was pre-2002 powertrain. Whoops!
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:08 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
this sounds like either 1) an open loop issue or 2) a high load ignition issue or 3) a tune issue

1) contains fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, maf sensor
2) contains coil packs, plugs
3) contains some other ecu parameters/maps

your learning view looks pretty reasonable. that would indicate that your fuel delivery and air metering are ok. a massive boost/vacuum leak that would cause that kind of issue would show up in the trims. you could test this with an intake pressure rig.

a coilpack/plug issue USUALLY shows up as misfire codes in the ecu. however, there is no way of knowing if those have been turned off in your car. and again, gapping IR plugs is generally avoided because of how delicate the center pin is.

like Kastley85891, what DOES concern me are your stored codes for TGV operation. TGV codes CAN and WILL trigger limp modes, and the symptoms are very much like the ones you are describing. you need to get your rom flashed again with those codes disabled.
+1, best answer so far.
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