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Old 03-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #1
Ying
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Default gtworx bilstein NO RE-VALVE, rce blacks 1st impression

I know there's been some interest in a review of the GTWorx Bilsteins that haven't been re-valved to match RCE Blacks. Keep in mind I'm just an average guy without the ability to change up set-ups to test one out against another. Just lucky to get a bonus that allowed me to upgrade my car. So here goes. (Cliffs Notes: I'm happy with the set up. Thanks Myles.)

Set up as of yesterday for my 2011 WRX is Whiteline 24F/22R w/ KB links and, of course the springs and dampers. This car is almost certainly strictly a DD. Thought about some auto X in the future, but I'm still undecided.

I'm not sure exactly how to comment on just the dampers and springs because obviously the handling is affected a lot now by the new sways, alignment, etc. also, so I'll try to keep it to straight line impressions.

Coming from an '04 STi, I know what harsh ride and bobblehead are all about. Best way to describe the ride with this new set up on my WRX is much more refined than my old STi, and a HUGE improvement over the under-damped ride of the OEM 2011 set up.

I know there's been some comments and question about the damper being valved for a 330# spring and over-damped for the Blacks, but honestly, I wasn't feeling it in the course of my in-town drive yesterday and my highway commute today.

In-town, dampers were obviously stiff, but I felt the softer RCE Blacks ate up some of that nicely. I literally looked for every manhole and uneven pavement to run over from the shop to my house and nothing I hit made me think it'd be rough to deal with long-term. My favorite part was the fact that the car didn't feel like it rebounded or bounced much. It ate whatever I threw at it and, while I could feel every imperfection in the road, that's what I expected and what I was looking for. Nothing I hit felt like I'd used all of my suspension up like what happened with the OEM set up. I'll be taking it by some of the classic "thud" areas in my area soon to see what happens, but I expect I'll be happy with the results.

On the highway, now that's where I was really impressed. At highway speeds, the car really felt like it had a legit sport tuned suspension. No bobblehead like I'd come to expect from my old STi. No jarring. I got a little bit of bounce, but every time that happened the car settled quickly. Nothing that made me think I'd be frustrated after a multiple hour drive. It

So all of this now does have me curious how much "softer" the ride would really feel with a re-valve. I'm not sure I would want it to be any softer really. I'm not sure what the additional cost of that is either, but at the moment, I'm perfectly content with the way the car is. Whatever the cost, it's likely not justified for me specifically. I'd love to compare the two, but it isn't going to happen unless I find someone at a meet or locally that's done the re-valve.

That's it until I get a chance to get some more miles in. My wife hasn't been in it yet so it'll be interesting to hear her impressions. She hated the STi and I was shooting for somewhere in the middle.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:43 AM   #2
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Nice writeup. I was in a similar situation as far as not being able to isolate how much improvement was the effect of hardware and what was due to the better alignment, btu the end result is that it all works together.

I already had sways and endlinks before I went with my Koni setup and alignment so it was not as much of a dramatic change as wht you had, but still it was a big difference.

I really think that I would have been happy with the Blacks on my Konis, but with them being brand new, I was not really wanting to be a guinea pig for them.

I'll be interested to see how you like the ride once the dampers break in and after the springs settle.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:51 PM   #3
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How is the drop? Where did you set the sir clips on the rear shocks? Pictures? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-28-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
Ying
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Originally Posted by jcwrx View Post
How is the drop? Where did you set the sir clips on the rear shocks? Pictures? Thanks in advance.
Drop is mild IMO. Haven't measured and never took a measurement when it was stock, my guess is 1/2" right now. It'll probably settle more.

Circlips are set to the top level and it's because the shop that put them on with it set to the middle and the links we're running interference on the dampers at full droop. They accidentally started to do the sway/endlink install with the car in the air. Once they put it down I bet it the circlip could probably move to the middle but I want to wait till it settles a little to decide whether it's worth moving. Worried about the middle setting making the rear look saggy.

Here's the only pic I have at the moment. Took it real quick yesterday when I got home. The rear actually looks a little lower today than yesterday. I'll try to get some more pics if it's not raining when I get home

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:40 PM   #5
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Thanks for the reply. Car looks great. I have been debating on +5 out +10. I think I will go +10 after seeing yours. Please keep me updated is the suspension settles. Doing my install on April 9!
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:49 PM   #6
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Sweet! Didn't know they were going on an '11. Although probably doesn't differ too much from the 09. I have the same sways on mine so it might be somewhat comparable. I asked if Myles had these in stock to order now (Thought he would since you just got them), but he informed me he is doing another batch of "stronger thicker" ones and that they are not the same price...My guess is they will be more $$ =/

I assume they are the same spring rate though...
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwrx View Post
Thanks for the reply. Car looks great. I have been debating on +5 out +10. I think I will go +10 after seeing yours. Please keep me updated is the suspension settles. Doing my install on April 9!
i upgraded my 08 wrx to the gtworx struts and yellow springs. very happy with the handling now. the ride is quite firm but responsive.its a very good suspension for someone that doesnt want coilovers.the ride height is almost identical as the stock struts with sti pinks i had before. heres mine with the rear at the second notch on the lower perch.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:53 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by lightgod86 View Post
Sweet! Didn't know they were going on an '11. Although probably doesn't differ too much from the 09.
The wider track does make it a little harder to install the fronts. Slightly more brute force than is needed for install on 08-10 models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightgod86 View Post
I asked if Myles had these in stock to order now (Thought he would since you just got them), but he informed me he is doing another batch of "stronger thicker" ones and that they are not the same price...My guess is they will be more $$ =/

I assume they are the same spring rate though...
Interesting...is there a thread about that?
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:56 PM   #9
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Maybe it is just me, or just the angle(s), but it appears that Ying's car...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ying View Post

looks to be lower on RCE Blacks than does 424wrx's car on Yellows...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 424wrx View Post
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 424wrx View Post
heres mine with the rear at the second notch on the lower perch.
424wrx,
Can' you please clarify where you have your sir clips set at? There are five settings. Are you two settings from the top (closer to the spring) or bottom (closer to the ground) on the sir clip? Thanks.
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:41 AM   #11
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Default Ride height questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ying View Post
Drop is mild IMO. Haven't measured and never took a measurement when it was stock, my guess is 1/2" right now. It'll probably settle more.

Circlips are set to the top level and it's because the shop that put them on with it set to the middle and the links we're running interference on the dampers at full droop. They accidentally started to do the sway/endlink install with the car in the air. Once they put it down I bet it the circlip could probably move to the middle but I want to wait till it settles a little to decide whether it's worth moving. Worried about the middle setting making the rear look saggy.
Indeed, the saggy butt is no bueno. The drop looks nice on your car from here. I will be interested to see what it looks like in a couple of weeks of drive time. If you get a chance please post measurements from wheel center to the apex of the fender front and rear. I am very curious how much ride height I will be gaining with the Bilstein/RCE Black set up. I am currently running H&R Street Performance Coilovers. I have pretty much maxed out the ride height on the coilovers and I am sitting at 13" front (wheel center to apex of fender), and 13 3/8" in the rear.

I don't know if I am just getting old or what, but I am looking for more of a touring style suspension and less race car. Race car power with a well balanced suspension for daily driving as well as attacking mountain passes 12 months out of the year. Where I live AWD and ground clearance are a must. Either that or you will find your bumper on the side of the road during winter storms or just getting your bike to a trail head. I'm rambling.......
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Old 03-29-2012, 07:10 AM   #12
424wrx
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Originally Posted by jcwrx View Post
424wrx,
Can' you please clarify where you have your sir clips set at? There are five settings. Are you two settings from the top (closer to the spring) or bottom (closer to the ground) on the sir clip? Thanks.
i have it at one down from center. so i have one more setting to full low position. i wish the fronts were adjustable. it would be nice to go a little lower. my picture is a little funny cause my front tires are turned left some. dont forget the suspension is a little different on the wider track 11-12 subarus.here are to closer pics.
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Old 03-29-2012, 08:53 AM   #13
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Here's a different angle that might sort out the height a little better







I'll try to get measurements tonight.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:17 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by jcwrx View Post
sir clips
Circlips. Circlips
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:20 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by 424wrx View Post
dont forget the suspension is a little different on the wider track 11-12 subarus.
It is wider, but not lower. All that it really changes is the natural camber angles- height is no different.

Though the wider OEM fenders might make the car appear lower, particularly with the 17x8" wheels on there.

At any rate, neither looks bad in any way- Ying's car just looks a little lower in the initial pictures.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:33 AM   #16
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Circlips. Circlips
To be fair though, both RCE's site and GTWorx's site has "SIR CLIP". BTW, speaking of which, what will I need to do if I want to drop the circlip down 5mm? I had someone else do the install because I had nowhere to do it.

Last edited by Ying; 03-29-2012 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
The wider track does make it a little harder to install the fronts. Slightly more brute force than is needed for install on 08-10 models.


Interesting...is there a thread about that?
Turns out he was thinking about the camber plates when he responded to my email, not the springs, so FALSE ALARM. Lol.

He did say they were available on their site now.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:17 PM   #18
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Just placed the order. Hope its worth it... Maybe I can sell the Yellows at a discount to someone.
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:26 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ying View Post
To be fair though, both RCE's site and GTWorx's site has "SIR CLIP". BTW, speaking of which, what will I need to do if I want to drop the circlip down 5mm? I had someone else do the install because I had nowhere to do it.
you would need to remove the rear struts. then get spring compressors and take the top hat off. the sirclip is under the lower spring perch. its a process to lower once they are on the car!
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Old 03-29-2012, 06:33 PM   #20
jcwrx
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Default sirclip = circlip

Quote:
Originally Posted by phenryiv1 View Post
Circlips. Circlips
I got the term from the RCE and GTWORX website. It was a bit of a noob thing now that I look at it. This suspension is very new to me. I'm still learning how it works including terminology. Thanks for understanding.

Last edited by jcwrx; 03-29-2012 at 09:20 PM. Reason: in a better frame of mind now.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:26 PM   #21
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I'll try to get measurements tonight.
Thanks for the new pictures. The new angle shows the car a bit racked (front lower than back), is that your visual perception Ying?

Any luck on the measurements? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:24 AM   #22
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Thanks for the new pictures. The new angle shows the car a bit racked (front lower than back), is that your visual perception Ying?

Any luck on the measurements? Thanks in advance.
That's what I'm seeing, yes. And the fact that it's going to be a PITA to correct isn't making me happy. It's not that it looks awful, but lowering the rear that 5mm will probably put it right where I want it.

Measurements...I totally forgot but I will get it done. Got involved with getting the dog some exercise and then hockey was on TV
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcwrx View Post
I got the term from the RCE and GTWORX website. It was a bit of a noob thing now that I look at it. This suspension is very new to me. I'm still learning how it works including terminology. Thanks for understanding.
I totally understand. I was just messing with you.

I actually saw it on the RCE website as "sir clip" so I can totally see how you'd run with that, but the technical term for that type of clip in general is a circlip (one word). The tool to install/remove them are commonly called circlip pliers, though their real name is retaining ring pliers.



If RCE wants to call them sir clpis, then so be it.

I hope that you were not offended- I was not trying to be rude.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ying View Post
That's what I'm seeing, yes. And the fact that it's going to be a PITA to correct isn't making me happy. It's not that it looks awful, but lowering the rear that 5mm will probably put it right where I want it.

Measurements...I totally forgot but I will get it done. Got involved with getting the dog some exercise and then hockey was on TV
When you take measurements, can you measure from dead center on the wheel centercap to the outer edge of the fender, perpendicular to the ground? I'd like to compare the distance to what I got with my install.

When you measure from one car to another, tire sizes can come into play if you measure from the ground. Centercap to fender is a consistent distance from one car to another.
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Old 04-25-2012, 02:12 PM   #25
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Just got around to measuring. 13.5" up front and 14" in the rear. This confirms my case for moving the circlip back down in the rear although I have no clue when I'll find the time to do it.
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