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Old 05-16-2012, 05:32 PM   #1
WhatTurboLag?
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Default kinugawa 20g with anti surge cover, anyone try it?

anyone use this turbo yet? im looking for a stock location turbo with an anti surge cover and this one has it.

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/ki...s-3-1-3-2.aspx
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:35 PM   #2
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I know the price is attractive but i would highly recommend getting a proven branded turbo with support here in the US. It will save you a bunch of headaches and money down the line. Check out MAPerformance's new line of turbos. Forced Performance and Blouch would also be good options!

Mike
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:49 PM   #3
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^^ Listen to this man. Couldn't have said it better.
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed View Post
I know the price is attractive but i would highly recommend getting a proven branded turbo with support here in the US. It will save you a bunch of headaches and money down the line. Check out MAPerformance's new line of turbos. Forced Performance and Blouch would also be good options!

Mike
Not that I'm advocating one way or the other... But the US distribution arm of Kinugawa is in SoCal as is their phone # which is US based.

MAP's turbo had to be made in roughly the same geographic region as the others, and offers just a 30day return policy. And they too sell questionable quality brands of turbos too like tomioka racing, etc...

That said, I'm happy with my blouch turbo
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:47 PM   #5
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I hope you do know that alot of "big names" "turbo manufacturer" are all OEM-ing from various manufacturers. None of them manufactures their turbo.

If you were to use price to gauge a turbo's reliability, i will point my fingers and laugh at you. Long gone were those times where expensive = good. and cheap will never be good.

Also, I would like to inform you. a quarter of HKS, TEIN's products are manufactured in Taiwan and assembled in Japan. Ending with the tag, MADE IN JAPAN.

If you would have took a trip down to Taiwan and visited Kamak's plant, You would have seen their QC and the way they manufacture it and trust me. YOU WILL BE AMAZED by their level of QC. Kinugawa, Kando all comes from the same manufacturer whom is KAMAK. Kinugawa is tested and proven to work reliability in Australia, UK and Japan. Turn it around and come to Japan and ask them about Blouch, FP and we will say, DON'T BUY THEM. because

1# they are so ****in expensive.
2# they are not well known.

just because you've never heard of these brands, it doesn't mean they are no good. and more ever, you've never even tested these turbos yourself.
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:58 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jjasonn View Post
I hope you do know that alot of "big names" "turbo manufacturer" are all OEM-ing from various manufacturers. None of them manufactures their turbo.

If you were to use price to gauge a turbo's reliability, i will point my fingers and laugh at you. Long gone were those times where expensive = good. and cheap will never be good.

Also, I would like to inform you. a quarter of HKS, TEIN's products are manufactured in Taiwan and assembled in Japan. Ending with the tag, MADE IN JAPAN.

If you would have took a trip down to Taiwan and visited Kamak's plant, You would have seen their QC and the way they manufacture it and trust me. YOU WILL BE AMAZED by their level of QC. Kinugawa, Kando all comes from the same manufacturer whom is KAMAK. Kinugawa is tested and proven to work reliability in Australia, UK and Japan. Turn it around and come to Japan and ask them about Blouch, FP and we will say, DON'T BUY THEM. because

1# they are so ****in expensive.
2# they are not well known.

just because you've never heard of these brands, it doesn't mean they are no good. and more ever, you've never even tested these turbos yourself.
I've bolded the important part. The part that applies to just about anything on this forum.
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Old 05-16-2012, 10:51 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjasonn View Post
If you were to use price to gauge a turbo's reliability, i will point my fingers and laugh at you. Long gone were those times where expensive = good. and cheap will never be good.
I'll send you $20 in paypal if you can point out a set of cheap coilovers worth the powder it takes to blow them up. Watch it with your sweeping statements. I just messaged Kamak via facebook as your otherwise thought post intrigued me, so maybe I'll hear back from them. Until then, Blouch is the ONLY turbo maker that supports our forum and our hobby, so they are the only ones that get my vote of confidence.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:25 AM   #8
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I don't need no cash. I only speak for what I have used and tried. Also I hate it how people condemn something when they have never tried or at least ride on it. Come on. Being expensive doesn't mean it's good. What's important is the process they have gone thru when they were being manufactured.

Also I know a manufacturer that has been manufacturing for the big names out there in Taiwan but I can't reveal it because they have signed a non disclosure with them. But all I can say is the cost price u buy from the manufacturer actually differs a lot from the big names..
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
I'll send you $20 in paypal if you can point out a set of cheap coilovers worth the powder it takes to blow them up. Watch it with your sweeping statements. I just messaged Kamak via facebook as your otherwise thought post intrigued me, so maybe I'll hear back from them. Until then, Blouch is the ONLY turbo maker that supports our forum and our hobby, so they are the only ones that get my vote of confidence.
also, for coilovers,

http://www.watop.com.tw

go to this site, and take a closer look. whichever coilovers look like them, comes from them. and that includes many big names "manufacturing"





and yes, the above company's main business is coilovers and they are very very well known at it. just take a look around whatever those "big names" are offering. u will find out it look exactly the same. from inside to outside.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:55 AM   #10
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All I can say about it is, looking at the kinugawa page, the only information they have is:
Front Page: How to pay us as fast as possible
About Us Page: [ENTER COMPANY INFORMATION HERE]

And given what I know about how much support you need to give a customer for turbo installs, good luck with all that.

Quote:
If you would have took a trip down to Taiwan and visited Kamak's plant, You would have seen their QC and the way they manufacture it and trust me. YOU WILL BE AMAZED by their level of QC. Kinugawa, Kando all comes from the same manufacturer whom is KAMAK. Kinugawa is tested and proven to work reliability in Australia, UK and Japan. Turn it around and come to Japan and ask them about Blouch, FP and we will say, DON'T BUY THEM. because

1# they are so ****in expensive.
2# they are not well known.
The majority of Japanese Subaru's are now twinscroll. That means that, if you don't sell a twinscroll turbocharger upgrade, you won't be selling to the Japanese. So yeah, none of the big names here are known to the Japanese. And neither is Kinugawa.

Where a factory is located can be irrelevant depending on who is staffing that factory. The biggest issue with Chinese made parts isn't that people there aren't working hard on making the parts - the biggest issue is that cheap materials are often used and quality control is often non-existent. And finally, there is usually nobody there that even knows what the parts they are making are, or do, and thus they have no idea how to fix problems that crop up.

So my view is, if a bunch of engineers and QC people from Japan are actually overseeing the parts that are being made, regardless of location, the end product will be higher quality than parts being made where the only QC is by somebody that's never even seen the car the parts are going on.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:00 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
All I can say about it is, looking at the kinugawa page, the only information they have is:
Front Page: How to pay us as fast as possible
About Us Page: [ENTER COMPANY INFORMATION HERE]
You make the assumption that a webpage is something everyone knows how to do, or is a priority to their business... You being in the NW, are too connected to see otherwise.

I support small businesses and as such understand that IT skills like a simple webpage template is often overlooked and created in haste.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
Where a factory is located can be irrelevant depending on who is staffing that factory. The biggest issue with Chinese made parts isn't that people there aren't working hard on making the parts - the biggest issue is that cheap materials are often used and quality control is often non-existent. And finally, there is usually nobody there that even knows what the parts they are making are, or do, and thus they have no idea how to fix problems that crop up.
guess where your thousands of dollars Garretts are made these days.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:41 PM   #13
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Ive had/bought Kinugawa turbos aswell as there parts for years now. Over the years I have rebuilt about 30 turbos with their kits with nothing but great success. There just as reliable as anything else on the market. Their products are top notch and priced very well compared to their competitiors.

I definitely reccommend any of their products. Ive not been disappointed at all.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:12 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by eg33GC View Post
guess where your thousands of dollars Garretts are made these days.
Guess you didn't read the very next paragraph after that one about who is doing the engineering and QC being more important than where the factory is located?

Most stuff is being made in China these days, that's without question. What separates the wheat from the chaff is how much is being spent on QC and engineering.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:13 PM   #15
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i havent even read the thread yet and i want to say now i do NOT want to buy this turbo because its a "cheap" turbo. but my last option i tried would not work. i wanted to use this cover on a blouch turbo. so yeah. the fake knockoff crying can stop now.
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Old 05-17-2012, 01:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by teiva-boy View Post
You make the assumption that a webpage is something everyone knows how to do, or is a priority to their business... You being in the NW, are too connected to see otherwise.

I support small businesses and as such understand that IT skills like a simple webpage template is often overlooked and created in haste.
I lived in Japan for 15 years, and been throughout Asia during that time. I've a fair idea of what people can and can't do outside of the Seattle zone. If somebody is selling relatively complex devices, such as turbochargers, I'd have to think they can spend the 10-15 minutes to put in their company details on their own website.

I'm no particular fan of Blouch, but I can definitely understand supporting companies that you can actually find on a map, call up to and get technical support, and in general has an actual "presence". That is why they cost more. All that is fairly expensive overhead, and it has to be paid for somehow.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #17
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It is sad people bash something when they haven't even seen or used the product. It is like trying to give a movie review for a movie you haven't seen yet. Please more people post with actual experience with these turbos.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
The majority of Japanese Subaru's are now twinscroll. That means that, if you don't sell a twinscroll turbocharger upgrade, you won't be selling to the Japanese. So yeah, none of the big names here are known to the Japanese. And neither is Kinugawa.
Firstly, they offers twinscroll. I have a TD06SL2 60-1 right here. A dozen of my friend had the TD05-20g twinscroll as well as the TD06SL2-20g right on their car. Also, it seems to me that you have never been to Japan although you have claimed to have stayed here for 15 years. If you have been here for 15 years. You should have seen the steep recline in our manufacturing business. And how most manufacturing factories closed down to turn to Taiwan for their manufacturing needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
So my view is, if a bunch of engineers and QC people from Japan are actually overseeing the parts that are being made, regardless of location, the end product will be higher quality than parts being made where the only QC is by somebody that's never even seen the car the parts are going on.
It doesn't mean that ONLY engineers and QC-ers from Japan makes better and higher quality parts. You ARE stereotyping. Although I'm a Japanese. I want to tell you, We used to be the best in manufacturing 20 years ago. but now? NO. Taiwan has far surpassed us. Thats why all of us are turning to Taiwan for our manufacturing needs. Also, I want to tell you. CHINA is NOT TAIWAN.
Taiwan has far better skills and strict QC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
The biggest issue with Chinese made parts isn't that people there aren't working hard on making the parts - the biggest issue is that cheap materials are often used and quality control is often non-existent. And finally, there is usually nobody there that even knows what the parts they are making are, or do, and thus they have no idea how to fix problems that crop up.
Again, you are talking **** that you don't know. As I have said, Take a trip down to Kamak's factory. And Kamak IS Kinugawa. It was just a brand OEM by Kinugawa. Kamak offers support for the line of Kinugawa directly.

http://www.kamakdynamics.com/profile...p?news_cPath=3

take a look at how they manufacture their stuffs. If one could have such benchmarking and testing equipment in their manufacturing plant. I guess they are not fooling around and also, Kamak has been in this business for years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shirokuma View Post
Guess you didn't read the very next paragraph after that one about who is doing the engineering and QC being more important than where the factory is located?

Most stuff is being made in China these days, that's without question. What separates the wheat from the chaff is how much is being spent on QC and engineering.

again, THEY ARE MADE IN TAIWAN NOT CHINA. It's a vast difference between Taiwan and China in terms of QC and manufacturing.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:04 PM   #19
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we've used the kinugawa turbo with no issues...dunno what the fuss is about

seems everyone wants us exclusive to ONE brand and one brand only

If that were the case, we'd all have identical cars...
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Nuke209 View Post
we've used the kinugawa turbo with no issues...dunno what the fuss is about

seems everyone wants us exclusive to ONE brand and one brand only

If that were the case, we'd all have identical cars...
because people sees the price and judge them. who wouldnt pay for something cheap and good? i would. but people's mindset is, if they are cheap. they are no good. lol. but long gone were those days where cheap = no good man...
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Old 05-17-2012, 10:59 PM   #21
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I have made the mistake of buying stuff cheap to "save money" and ended up learning my lesson in the long run! I say either modify your stocker or throw down some money on quality!!!!!! as the ol saying goes "You get what you pay for"!!!!!
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:03 AM   #22
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I just dismantled a customers kinugawa VF40 16g replacement. The turbo failed due to debris in the the oil system. Not the turbo or manufacturing fault.... the quality actually surprised me! High grade O ring seals for the compressor housing, very large diameter turbine shaft, thick brass journal bearings, oil slinger, and very good looking machine work. I can post pics for you guys tomorrow if you want. I really dont think there is anything bad about these turbos! Hell the quality looks way better than any VF IHI turbo Ive ever taken apart!
They look great and have VERY HIGH reputation in the UK and Japanese market. Just google them, browse www.scoobynet.com they love these turbos and many are sold used with 30k-40k miles! Blouch wont even help you if the turbo blows up the in the first damn day! (true story).
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Old 05-18-2012, 01:16 AM   #23
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There is another guy on here who is running this turbo;

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/ki...0ps-2-2-2.aspx

with this OBX rotated kit;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-ROTATED-...c2d7fd&vxp=mtr

he says its working great on his EJ205 with no problems! Im going the same route on my build. Ill try to find his post about it and add a link. $1k for a bran new rotated kit.... not bad! Im doing the same as the other guy and cutting off the 44mm EWG flange. Ill just be using my current 38mm EWG up-pipe. Then switching to SD tune and getting rid of my MAF. Once its done here in about 2 months Ill have it Dynoed in CO with videos and all that. I dont care if im the guinea-pig who comes through with a "cheap" rotated kit. Ill put it to the test, if the turbo blows, oh well.... Ill buy something else. Not a big deal to me.

Last edited by UK-Wagon; 05-18-2012 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:54 AM   #24
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Dont worry. They will not blow on you unless u did something wrong while installing. I have friends running the kinugawas clocking the highest 60,000km on them. And they are still pulling strong. That's why I will go all out for these turbos.

And no I'm not working for them. I just feel bad for them when u people bash their products without even trying them.. Imagine the $ they would have lost making just because people like you spread **** about their products when u people have never used it before

Last edited by jjasonn; 05-18-2012 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimanmark
I have made the mistake of buying stuff cheap to "save money" and ended up learning my lesson in the long run! I say either modify your stocker or throw down some money on quality!!!!!! as the ol saying goes "You get what you pay for"!!!!!
First of all. You deserve it. U don't buy something just because they are cheap unless they have a long good track record. Kamak line of turbos which includes kinugawa have been well proven by people who have actually used them. Also I hate how u people bash something just because they are cheap and the worst of all, you people have never used them before. U know what? You people who condemns these turbos without using them are a failure in life.

Calling the grapes sour when you've never tried them best describes u people who tells people to stay on them bashing them just because they are cheap.
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