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Old 05-28-2012, 07:37 PM   #1
poly_poly-man
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Default IAT relocation questions

I'm working on setting up a carberry rom on my car ('02 wrx) - it's not going badly.

I'm thinking about setting up a relocated IAT of some sort for more accurate tuning. My biggest goal, however, is to save money (short of having an unusable car).

Thinking about the GM IAT, I was wondering where it is recommended to put it (specifically - I realize that it's supposed to go post-IC and if possible in the intake manifold), if I could do it without welding a bung, etc. Basically, what's the cheapest/easiest way to do this?

Or, my other thought - why not just take the IAT out of the MAF housing, then drill a hole in the IC-TB hose, shove it in and seal with silicone or so?

any tips appreciated.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #2
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Drill and tap the intake manifold. Pretty sure there has been several threads on this. Did you try searching? And how exactly were you going to take the IAT sensor out of the MAF unit?
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #3
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Weld on bung - $10.00
Thermistor from BMotorsportS.com - $15.00
Labor to weld on bung - $40.00 or less if you know a guy

NOT HALF-ASSING IT - Priceless

Last edited by kellygnsd; 05-29-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:00 PM   #4
poly_poly-man
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the answer is, yes, I spent quite a while searching, and had trouble coming up with specific recommendations.

Is it any better to weld on a bung than to drill and tap?
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:27 PM   #5
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I initially just drilled and tapped my manifold but I wanted more than 3 treads worth of engagement for sealing purposes. I ended up welding the bung on because I didn't want any leaks under high boost. The bung is the most legit method because the manifold is pretty thin in spots. I can post a pic up later.






Last edited by kellygnsd; 05-29-2012 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
Weld on bung - $10.00
Thermistor from BMotorsportS.com - $15.00
Labor to weld on bung - $40.00 or less if you know a guy

NOT HALF-ASSING IT - Priceless

drilled and tapped would be the best way to do it.....for most of us who dont wanna screw around with trying to weld the ****ty porous garbage aluminum the intake manifold is made of......

****...you could even just drill it and jb weld the probe in and it would be all good
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
drilled and tapped would be the best way to do it.....for most of us who dont wanna screw around with trying to weld the ****ty porous garbage aluminum the intake manifold is made of......

****...you could even just drill it and jb weld the probe in and it would be all good
Don't use rookie welders. All it takes is a little bit of proficiency.


I hear there is a sensor that will fit where the PCV valve is on the 2.0L mani also.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:51 PM   #8
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Just put it in the throttle to TMIC hose, I have had mine there for 10+ years and never a problem... http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...t=DSC00725.jpg
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:13 AM   #9
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You actually want to put it into the manifold not the IC pipe, I did lots of development on the SD rom over the past year or so trust me on this. The air temps at low loads a quite a bit different from before and after the throttle body. I replaced the PCV valve on my car with a sensor I made from an old MAF IAT sensor(you just cut it off with a dremel) and a plug. I have tried several sensors including the spec c manifold temp sensor that heat soaks horribly and the GM sensor that requires a huge hole in the manifold in addition to a MAF in blow through in the pipes. Here is the solution I made.



To make your own cut the thermister off of an old MAF sensor and solder on some leads, you have to use silver solder since the thermister metal is not wetted by lead based solder. Drill a small hole in a 1/4 BSP plug if you want to use the PCV threaded hole and put the thermister into the plug. Pot the sensor into the plug using high temp silicone to make a pressure tight seal and to limit heat transfer from the manifold. Mine has held up for several months already with no issue in the arizona heat. It responds very quickly to changes and fueling is always stable even with big temp swings during the day 50-60s in the morning and night and 100+ during the day.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 05-30-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:12 PM   #10
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^^ this is the post I'm looking for, I believe.

However, I can't help but notice that this requires deleting the PCV - I'm having trouble finding information about this (but the general gist of the internet on this seems fairly negative) - any chance you could link me to some information on doing a PCV delete on a turbo subaru?

Thanks very much for the input!
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:37 PM   #11
lukeskywrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poly_poly-man View Post
^^ this is the post I'm looking for, I believe.

However, I can't help but notice that this requires deleting the PCV - I'm having trouble finding information about this (but the general gist of the internet on this seems fairly negative) - any chance you could link me to some information on doing a PCV delete on a turbo subaru?

Thanks very much for the input!
The choice is up to you on the PCV, I tie the heads into the crank breather and send it into the turbo inlet. Eventually I want to put a catch can in to catch any oil vapor but I think of my FMIC as a huge catch can anyway. My goal is to pull a high vacuum on the breathers at high boost just like the engineers at subaru did from the turbo inlet. Under high manifold vacuum when the PCV valve would be open it allows the oil vapors to be burned more effectively rather than condensing in the intercooler and dripping down reducing the engines HC cruising emissions since that is the only time it would ever be open. THink about it, the valve would only be open when there is a negative pressure differential between manifold vacuum and the intake pre turbo, IE idle vacuum (3-5psi absolute) to ~10-12 psi absolute exactly where the car would be cruising.

Last edited by lukeskywrx; 05-30-2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:43 PM   #12
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Those who run the Crawford AOS delete the PCV with excellent results so it cam be done.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:03 PM   #13
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hmm, either this thing or my intake manifold is heatsoaking pretty badly... and given my afr's, it's this thing.

My general method of tuning is to flash a new rom, go for a short cruise making sure I do what I want to do at the time (logging the whole time), then pull in, shut the car off, make what changes I need, reflash, and repeat.

After the first time, I noticed that this thing always responds right around 160*F when I first start the car, until I actually start to drive around some. I'm noticing that it's running consistently lean too until the IAT comes down a bit.

Is there something wrong with the IAT, my IAT compensation table (haven't touched from the original in the carberry rom), or should I just lower my VE values?
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeskywrx View Post
The choice is up to you on the PCV, I tie the heads into the crank breather and send it into the turbo inlet. Eventually I want to put a catch can in to catch any oil vapor but I think of my FMIC as a huge catch can anyway. My goal is to pull a high vacuum on the breathers at high boost just like the engineers at subaru did from the turbo inlet. Under high manifold vacuum when the PCV valve would be open it allows the oil vapors to be burned more effectively rather than condensing in the intercooler and dripping down reducing the engines HC cruising emissions since that is the only time it would ever be open. THink about it, the valve would only be open when there is a negative pressure differential between manifold vacuum and the intake pre turbo, IE idle vacuum (3-5psi absolute) to ~10-12 psi absolute exactly where the car would be cruising.
That idea is bad on many levels.

You don't want to burn oil ever, even at idle. Motor oil is not fuel oil and it will foul plugs and coat your piston to with a nasty hard crust. It was not meant to be burned ever.

An oily intercooler is also an inefficient intercooler. That oily film in your catch can/FMIC is negatively effecting performance. Keeping oil out of the intake tract is the goal.
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:42 PM   #15
lukeskywrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellygnsd View Post
That idea is bad on many levels.

You don't want to burn oil ever, even at idle. Motor oil is not fuel oil and it will foul plugs and coat your piston to with a nasty hard crust. It was not meant to be burned ever.

An oily intercooler is also an inefficient intercooler. That oily film in your catch can/FMIC is negatively effecting performance. Keeping oil out of the intake tract is the goal.
The oil never really makes it up to the intake manifold so it really never burns much. I see near ambient temps from my FMIC so I am not worried about efficiency since that puts it well into the 90% range. I change copper plugs 2-3 times a year and they are never carbon coated.

Garden hose and soapy water a few times a year keeps a FMIC squeaky clean
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #16
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what angle do you mount your IAT? I have a NA manifold and there is a huge hole on the bottom of the main body. I was thinking of just tapping it (instead of welding it shut) and puting the sensor there. I am afaid of moisture collecting there and ruining it?

any suggestions?
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Old 08-21-2012, 03:57 PM   #17
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as far as pcv systems, i've always wanted to put one of these on the car: http://www.anver.com/document/vacuum...s/pumps-vr.htm

supply pressure from the exhaust manifold/up pipe, and route the exhaust back into the down pipe.

benefit: pulls mega crankcase vacuum while in boost, providing much better ring seal, no need to contaminate charge air with cc air/oil.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:09 AM   #18
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bump this up. I am getting closer every day to actually having to place the sensor.
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