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Old 06-20-2011, 04:34 PM   #276
NcKidd
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read thru entire thread, still a little unsure of DD settings...

having this setup installed by Cobb Surgeline as we speak: d-specs with crucial racing springs (257/217) & group N tophats. what settings would be optimal for this spring rate?

thanks in advance, will post whole setup (and revisions) going forward.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:09 PM   #277
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Lightbulb

Just a quick point- If people start posting their springs' rates with the type of springs being used, it will make all the postings in this thread much more meaningful and infinitely more useful....some have, but most omit this vital info.

Also, more explanation of why you have your D-specs set the way you do.... Chance? Experience? A little troll told you to?
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Old 09-12-2011, 12:12 AM   #278
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I have the dspecs with RCE wagon springs on my bugeye.

I did 'extensive' testing on my own, and could never quite get the balance right. There was always this bobble type, unbalanced feel to them.

Another member helped me calculate settings based on the rce rates, and my bugeye weight.

Here they are if they are helpful:

these are settings with 58/42 weight distribution..

90% - 3 3/16 front 4 13/16 rear
85% - 3 5/8 front 5 rear
80% - 4 1/16 front 5 7/16 rear
75% - 4 7/16 front 5 3/4 rear


50/50 is:

85% - 4 3/8 front 4 11/16 rear
80% - 4 3/4 front 5 rear
75% - 5 1/16 front 5 5/16 rear

I know the car isn't 50/50, but for those that want to play around, useful to try out. Tends to flatten out the steering a bit.


In any case - all of these settings tend to get rid of that annoying bobble between front and rear.

I don't recall the RCE wagon rates off the top of my head though
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Old 09-12-2011, 07:40 AM   #279
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I don't know if anybody is going to read this posting burried in so many pages of settings, but it's not only about suspension:

If you have upgraded brakes, like I do, they are affected by weight transfer.
If the d-specs provide flat braking, due to the front vs rear settings, like mines once did, the ABS system is affected by this. There's an article on Stoptech's page about upgraded brakes that deals with this.

So I have Brembo GT front upgrade only, they were designed to work with the OEM rears. Not also with the modified weight transfer, due to the D-specs.
At high speed strong braking, the rears don't lock up anymore and the fronts start locking early.
Once I adjusted the d-specs to allow for some dive, the problem was alleviated.
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Old 09-12-2011, 09:47 PM   #280
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That's very interesting. What type of settings on your dspecs did you go with to achieve the change in braking?
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Old 09-13-2011, 12:11 AM   #281
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5.5 front and rear.
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Old 10-26-2011, 10:59 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
I have the dspecs with RCE wagon springs on my bugeye.

I did 'extensive' testing on my own, and could never quite get the balance right. There was always this bobble type, unbalanced feel to them.

Another member helped me calculate settings based on the rce rates, and my bugeye weight.

Here they are if they are helpful:

these are settings with 58/42 weight distribution..

90% - 3 3/16 front 4 13/16 rear
85% - 3 5/8 front 5 rear
80% - 4 1/16 front 5 7/16 rear
75% - 4 7/16 front 5 3/4 rear


50/50 is:

85% - 4 3/8 front 4 11/16 rear
80% - 4 3/4 front 5 rear
75% - 5 1/16 front 5 5/16 rear

I know the car isn't 50/50, but for those that want to play around, useful to try out. Tends to flatten out the steering a bit.


In any case - all of these settings tend to get rid of that annoying bobble between front and rear.

I don't recall the RCE wagon rates off the top of my head though
Can someone explain what the % means in the above examples and how it applies to choosing settings? Thanks, Gregg
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:31 AM   #283
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I think it's percent stiff
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:39 PM   #284
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Well I finally got my Tokico's dialed in. I forget what I ended up with on turns, but I know I was doing quarter turns towards the end to dial it in.

2005 WAGON
Tokico D-specs
Wagon Take-off's
Sedan Aluminum LCA's (the good ones)
Whiteline Camber Plates
Rolled Fenders


Left Front:
-1.8 Camber
5.0 Caster
-0.05 Toe

Right Front:
-1.7 Camber
5.1 Caster
-0.00 Toe

Left Rear:
-0.7 Camber
0.01 Toe

Right Rear
-0.8 Camber
.11 Toe

Thinking about camber bolts in the rear and pushing the front camber a little further but since its a DD I'm not sure at what point I should stop with the camber on the front.

With the sedan LCA's should I be having the alignment tech put any of the settings in differently on the comp??

Last edited by bdj238; 10-30-2011 at 08:40 PM. Reason: question
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:35 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back Road Runner View Post
Small note on this thread.

Damper setting is relative to the spring rate used and the mass load it supports. That means the actual setting is based off the lb/in of the spring used and the overall weight and weight balance of the car. A 3500 lb. car with a 60/40 weight distribution on 250 lb/in F, 200 lb/in R springs will use a slightly different damper setting then a 3200 lb. car with a 58/42 weight distribution on the same 250/200 lb/in springs.

There will be ONE correct damper setting for a specific setup. The front and rear dampers will most likely NOT be set equal.

Notes on tuning.
Too stiff: car feels like it's "falling" after bumps and the car feels skittish over bumps since the tire leaves the ground and has a delay falling back to Earth.
Too soft: car bounds upward after bumps causing excess chassis motion and an overall sloppy feeling.

You'll want the point in between where the car feels like it "floats" over bumps. You'll want both the front AND rear to do this. This will give you the best ride and best car behavior.

Adjust the struts in coarse increments and as you get above and below the ideal, step down to smaller increments.
1 turn
1/2 turn
1/4 turn
1/8 turn
1/16 turn
fine tuning

You should be able to dial it in both quickly in coarse steps and exactly as you adjust in finer and finer detail.

To stay on topic to the thread:

02 Forester S
Weight: 3300 - 3500 lbs ???
Balance: 60/40 - 57/43 ???
RCE Wagon springs front (279 lb/in)
Prodrive STI springs rear (~200-220 lb/in ???)
Front turns: 2 13/16 turns
Rear turns: 5 5/8 turns

If anybody wants a rough starting point for their D-Spec settings, look at "suspensioncalc.xls" on this forum. Then take the D-Spec dyno graph (again available on this forum if you don't have the manual lying around) and multiply by 9.81 to get the N/mm, mm/s values in the Excel spreadsheet.

Example:
3500 lb. car
58/42 weight distibution
250 lb/in front
200 lb/in rear

100% rebound dampening goal (stiff, starting point, and you will tune down from here)
Front rebound rate (at 0.3 m/s): 2600
Rear rebound rate (at 0.3 m/s): 1950

Divide by 9.81
Front (kg): 265
Rear (kg): 199

These are the numbers you look for on the D-Spec dyno graph at the 0.3 m/s point. It can be any point really as the D-Specs are pretty linear in rate. 0.3 m/s seems common.

On the dyno graph, you find this correlates to around 3 turns Front and 4 3/4 turns Rear.

Now in the SuspensionCalc.xls spreadsheet you can play around with car weight and weight balance to see what I mean about how the dampening changes a little with these adjustments. You can get a good starting point with this route, and then tune slightly to the actual ideal setting for your car. I've personally found this method to create a slightly stiff setup, and you have to tune down from here a little. However, it seems to be decently close and within, say, a quarter of a turn or so from ideal. It sort of depends on how good your guess is for your car's weight and balance as well as how accurate the spring rates are.



SuspensionCalc.xls spreadsheet:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1292451
Does anyone know where suspensioncalc.xls is located on this forum?? I want to figure out the perfect settings for my springs.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:03 AM   #286
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2005 AUDM WRX sedan
2.5 turns front/ 3 turns rear
STi Spec C RAR springs 340lbs/inch F, 285lbs/inch R
Com-C front top hats, group N rear
24mm front swaybar, 22mm rear swaybar, TiC fender braces, loads of bushings, spaced lower control arm for caster, camber bolts in front, too many suspension mods to list and 125kg weight reduction.
17x7.5 +53 w/225/45/17 Kumho KU36
-3 deg camber f/0 toe f/6 deg caster
-2 deg camber r/0 toe
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:15 AM   #287
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2001 Impreza RS sedan
weighed in at 1765 lbs fr/1486 lbs r (54.3%/45.7%) (with driver)
5.5k fr/4.9k r Eibach springs (307 lbs/in, 273 lbs/in) on Ground Control perches
215/45/R17 Pilot Exalto PE2 on 17x7 FN01R-C wheels
Whiteline 22-26mm rear sway on 22mm
Stock top hats, stock front sway
Solid end links, poly bushings.

4.75 fr/5.5 r (TFFF)


I think I might be a bit underdamped... I run softer setting than many people with lower rate springs anyway.

But if I try to go much more than another turn stiffer I have trouble with the rear end bounding up over bumps and skipping, and I also have trouble finding a good ratio between front and rear and I get a lot of pitching back and forth on wavey highways.

I'm about to take it all apart and install Bakemono camber/caster plates all around. I had thought about going to softer springs, too, but they seem fine as long as I don't set the dampers too stiff.

I didn't see many people in this thread running springs around 300 lbs/in, and the few that were seemed to have awfully stiff settings dialed in on the D-Specs.
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Old 04-20-2012, 10:00 PM   #288
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06 WRX

Tanabe DF-210 springs

Front - 5 turns from full stiff
Rear - 6 turns from full stiff

Camber -1* all around

Had the D-Specs set poorly until I read this thread. Made me understand spring rates better when adjusting the D-Specs. Used to set them too stiff all over, and always stiffer in the back than the front. The difference is unbelievable now that I know what I am doing.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:51 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
2 tffs is WAY too stiff. We find that for most stiff springs (swift spec r, RCE) the optimal range is 4-5 tffs. No more is needed.

Tony
Very useful info.

02 WRX
RCE yellow
F/R = 5/5 (will try 4/4.5 next)

Camber -2.5 front / -1 rear
Caster: 3.6/4

Updated: what a difference 0.5 turn makes... went to 4.5/5 from 5/5 and it made noticeable difference.

Last edited by txl146; 04-22-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:22 PM   #290
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Current setup on my 05 saabaru wagon (same as a WRX):

Tokico D-Specs
RCE Yellow Springs with 1/4" spacer in rear (spring rates: 295 lb/in front and 275 in/lb rear)
DMS front Camber Plates and Group N rear top hats
-3.0 deg camber in front
-1.3 deg camber in rear
+4.4 deg caster in front

Current settings:
3 tffs in front
3.5 tffs in rear

Seems pretty comfortable now, however I want the best setup for autox. I messed with a few settings at the last test n tune:
3 tffs front and 3.5 tffs rear (only one run)
2 front and 2.5 rear (only one run)
1 front and 1.5 rear (only one run)
Went full stiff for the remaining ~5 runs

I'm thinking that the 0 tffs was probably a bit too stiff ...anyone run theirs 0 tffs for autox? I'm curious to see how stiff people run them for autox. I think there is def a point that the springs are over dampened!

Last edited by wrxsomeday; 06-07-2012 at 06:29 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwagontoo View Post
Can someone explain what the % means in the above examples and how it applies to choosing settings? Thanks, Gregg

Percent damped - the higher the %, the stiffer the ride
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:08 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxsomeday View Post
Current setup on my 05 saabaru wagon (same as a WRX):

Tokico D-Specs
RCE Yellow Springs with 1/4" spacer in rear (spring rates: 295 lb/in front and 275 in/lb rear)
DMS front Camber Plates and Group N rear top hats
-3.0 deg camber in front
-1.3 deg camber in rear
+4.4 deg caster in front

Current settings:
3 tffs in front
3.5 tffs in rear

Seems pretty comfortable now, however I want the best setup for autox. I messed with a few settings at the last test n tune:
3 tffs front and 3.5 tffs rear (only one run)
2 front and 2.5 rear (only one run)
1 front and 1.5 rear (only one run)
Went full stiff for the remaining ~5 runs

I'm thinking that the 0 tffs was probably a bit too stiff ...anyone run theirs 0 tffs for autox? I'm curious to see how stiff people run them for autox. I think there is def a point that the springs are over dampened!

Those are all too stiff for the RCE's - see Tic's comment above - the range is 4 to 5 for the most part.

Your wagon is probably pretty close to mine

Try

4 3/8 front

4 11/16 rear

Keep in mind there is really only 1 setting that is 'ideal', so changing for autox might 'feel' better, but your best gripping setup is going to feel softer than what you are using now and don't bother going stiffer than 4.

Even a 1/8 or 1/16 turn can make big difference!
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:27 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezil71 View Post
Those are all too stiff for the RCE's - see Tic's comment above - the range is 4 to 5 for the most part.

Your wagon is probably pretty close to mine

Try

4 3/8 front

4 11/16 rear

Keep in mind there is really only 1 setting that is 'ideal', so changing for autox might 'feel' better, but your best gripping setup is going to feel softer than what you are using now and don't bother going stiffer than 4.

Even a 1/8 or 1/16 turn can make big difference!
Yep, I did see that comment above. There was an autox on this last Sunday and I did some experimenting...I started off at 3 front and 2.5 rear for the 4 morning runs. For the afternoon runs (only 2), I cranked them up to 2.5 front and 2 rear. My times did improve considerably (improved about a full second per lap), however part of that may be due to learning the course better and better driving.

However, it is worth mentioning that I am still on stock sway bars, and I'm probably seeing "gains" from stiffening because it is dialing out some of that body roll. It was discussed in here before somewhere that stiffening the struts to reduce body roll is NOT the correct mechanism for reducing body roll...sway bars are. I guess its also worth mentioning that I got some "funky" tire wear (ie shredding in the middle of the tire) from the first autox when I had the struts at 0 (probably had tire pressures a bit high too).

Sure, I am seeing from gains from over-dampening, however I will probably see an even bigger gain in handling with bigger sway bars and the proper dampening. Ultimately, I'm going to need to upgrade my swaybars and keep the d-specs around the 4-5 range!

Thanks all for the insight
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #294
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I've searched this thread and cannot find an answer if dspecs will work on my 2003 Wexford wagon with a set of aftermarket camber bolts? I'm assuming the fronts will be fine? I'll be running rce wagon specific springs if that matters at all
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Old 06-13-2012, 06:14 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hella_sti View Post
I've searched this thread and cannot find an answer if dspecs will work on my 2003 Wexford wagon with a set of aftermarket camber bolts? I'm assuming the fronts will be fine? I'll be running rce wagon specific springs if that matters at all
I'm assuming you mean WRX wagon...haha darn auto correct.

But YES the Tokico D-specs will work on your wagon (I have them installed on my wagon). The only thing to keep in mind is that you will lose about 0.7 degrees of negative camber in the front. The D-Specs are designed for WRX sedans, and since sedans have a slightly wider track in the front, you lose some negative camber when using a strut designed for a sedan (d-spec) on a wagon.

You can regain some of this camber this by installing sedan control arms, using camber plates in the front (Whiteline also makes top hats called the Com C, which offers more camber and caster. They are not adjustable, yet they offer some comfort and are fairly reasonably priced), or even aftermarket camber bolts in the front (to be used in the bottom hole only! - and retain the stock camber bolts in the upper hole).

Since you already have camber bolts, here is an excellent thread to answer any questions that you may have about camber bolts:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1590221

hope this info helps...and remember...search is your friend.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:59 AM   #296
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I keep seeing people refer to a "break in period" here. I recently had a set of d-specs installed and couldnt find any mention of a break in period in the manual so I called Tokico. The tech there said there was no break in period necessary for these struts.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.
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Old 09-09-2012, 12:34 PM   #297
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2003 wrx with 97,000 miles
RCE yellows with group n tophats
Whiteline 24 swaybar in front, rallytek 24 swaybar in back
Upper strut bars front and rear
Continental extreme contact DWS tires in "too heavy" enkei 17 inch EVO 6 wheels
Steering, diff, outrigger bushing and botox bolts
4 1/2 f and 4 3/4 r seems best so far

Started off at 5 all around for 100 miles. Rode awesome, started increasing stiffness too much (3ish range), then softened it up too much (6ish range)... As stated above "best" setting should be between 4-5 depending on mods, roads, weight, and driving style

Further tinkering and fine tuning to come after alignment in a couple days and ill update settings

Much thanks to Tony, Clint and the rest of the crew at TIC for the products, direction, and advice!

Last edited by 03blackwrx02yellowsv; 09-09-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #298
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Anyone have any insight into settings with a set of Prodrive red's?

Nearest I can tell the spring rates on the reds are 215 F / 195 R or close to 240 F / 220 R. If they're an actual 25% increase over stock like stated by Prodrive.

Last edited by haberkorn; 10-04-2012 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #299
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I looked into theose 1 year ago. I think there were two generations, one for the '04 Sti and one for 06+, in addition to the blues for WRX.
The later ones were said to be better.
I could probably not dig again where I've read this, was burried somewhere.
There were reds for V7 Sti as well, but the guy that was selling them on ebay.co.uk refused to answer my questions so I passed.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #300
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I've got the 04 models, I bought them new so I could read the serial number on them clear as day. Prodrive seems to have never published their spring rate spec's just stated they were a "25% increase over stock".

I just want get them set up the first time instead of ripping the back seat out every other day to make a change heh.
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