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Old 06-13-2012, 01:24 PM   #1
Turn in Concepts
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Default Gauging interest - another rod player in the market

Hey Guys,

Looking to get your feedback on something. I'm wondering if there's room in the market for yet another stock replacement rod.

What we're looking at is a Subaru chromo forged unit in stock dimensions.

Specs would be for just over 1,000 HP for the set with a weight of under 600 grams with a price point of just slightly more than the heavy mid-range rods.

If we get enough positive feedback on this one I'm willing to commit the money today to get the project started.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:37 PM   #2
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I think there is room in the market for a quality rod. If it has a cost about the same as Manley turbo tuff I beams, if they can hold similar hp and weight around 550 grams we have a winer.
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #3
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600 grams is a bit too heavy for a rod. What is the material used and what is the design? Is it H or A beam or something else?

600 grams for a rod is around pauter territory already.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:48 PM   #4
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Rod weight should be down around 540 grams. Still finalizing a few things.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:58 PM   #5
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Having another vendor selling good rods is always nice, but having the 1000hp only rod will limit you to a smaller portion of the market. I'm sure it will be a great design and with the right marketing from you, and what looks like 3MI Racing you should have some success as your opinions are highly influential on this site. However, the run of the mill Subaru Enthusiast that doesn't follow this forum and just want a fix, light build, or even moderate build would be getting most of their advice from their local vendor which will vary depending on where in the country they are located. Either way good luck with your design and deployment for future High HP builds!
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #6
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You can think of it as a rod that will last over 500 whp (unlike the cheap H-beams) and won't cost an arm and a leg (Carillo and Cosworth) or weigh an arm and a leg (Pauter and Manley).

Trying to fit into the happy medium for the community.

I can't come close to touching the price of the cheap H-beam market as I can get them from the same Chinese foundry at $250-300 a set pending options (when purchased in 10 sets). These are billet 4340 rod and come standard with L19 rod bolts and oiling notches. They utilize my hybrid I-beam design as well.

So they resemble the rod below but have several dimensional differences, as this is a pic of a 300M long rod. This one weighs in at 537 grams, rated for 1200 hp and are 134.5mm in length. Spec'ed for 10,500 RPM with a 530 gram piston package.


or a couple sets of them and one old 4" bore 'full round' piston



Everyone likes pictures
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:35 PM   #7
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Sign me up for a set
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #8
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If you guys make it a production part and its reasonably priced I would consider using them in our engines that use a standard length rod.

The Chinese H-Beams are fine for 400-450hp but I no longer trust that at over 500whp that they are strong enough.

The Pauters and the Manley I-Beams are to heavy. Ill shoot you a email about what we are currently using later and what we are looking for.

Matt
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:54 PM   #9
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^^^Matt, these were the same rods I'd discussed with you several weeks back.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:58 PM   #10
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I figured that was the case
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:55 PM   #11
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id pay big money for a rod that you can rate at a true healthy 1000 whp.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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Do it, they will sell. Give me a reason to return these tt rods.....
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:13 PM   #13
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That looks like a great rod....
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Rod weight should be down around 540 grams. Still finalizing a few things.
This is exactly what I emailed you about. I'll need a set before the end of summer.
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Old 06-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #15
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I'm just one person, but I'd be interested in a set for my next turbo.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:34 AM   #16
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Sort of off topic but not... Why are the components of the engine rated for horsepower but the driveline supposed to be rated in how much torque they can handle?
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:55 AM   #17
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I just blew a ringland on my motor and need to rebuild it. I'm debating between stock STi rods or possibly upgrading mine while I'm in there. I'm running an OG FP green on e85. Trying to get as much out of the turbo as possible. If there would work and are priced reasonably I'd be in.

I <3 TiC products and hear great things about 3MI.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moose00015 View Post
I just blew a ringland on my motor and need to rebuild it. I'm debating between stock STi rods or possibly upgrading mine while I'm in there. I'm running an OG FP green on e85. Trying to get as much out of the turbo as possible. If there would work and are priced reasonably I'd be in.

I <3 TiC products and hear great things about 3MI.
Im in same boat. I have a set of sti rods, but if price is right and ETA is somewhat soon Im interested.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:23 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nappingcub View Post
Sort of off topic but not... Why are the components of the engine rated for horsepower but the driveline supposed to be rated in how much torque they can handle?
Put simply, from an engineering point of view, I wouldn't rate a component in power or torque figures but it is what the general public can relate to.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
Put simply, from an engineering point of view, I wouldn't rate a component in power or torque figures but it is what the general public can relate to.
I can understand using non-engineering speak so the general public can relate to it, but why not rate both of them in terms of torque or both in terms of horsepower? That's the part that has me a bit confused.

Not trying to start ish, just trying to wrap my head around how things are measured or related to when dealing with this stuff
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:10 PM   #21
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The easiest unit to relate driveline to is torque.

I don't know why the industry chose horsepower for internals and this decision far out-dates me. I blame old school hot rodders or that fact that 'horsepower sells cars' (or parts).

I'd prefer to keep it as BMEP and then forces (mass and acceleration).

A quick read on BMEP
http://www.xplorer.co.za/articles/bmep.htm
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:59 PM   #22
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Soooo
When will they be avail in stock ?
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Old 06-14-2012, 06:15 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3MI Racing View Post
The easiest unit to relate driveline to is torque.

I don't know why the industry chose horsepower for internals and this decision far out-dates me. I blame old school hot rodders or that fact that 'horsepower sells cars' (or parts).

I'd prefer to keep it as BMEP and then forces (mass and acceleration).

A quick read on BMEP
http://www.xplorer.co.za/articles/bmep.htm
Thanks for the explanation and link. Guess it is still going to be mysterious since people in general can't get to a consensus on how to rate stuff. Now wouldn't it be interesting if there were some standards on how drivetrain companies rate how much ft/lbs of torque their gears could withstand?

Back to topic - The approx specs would be:
HP : ~1000 CHP holding ability
RPM : ?????
Weight : ~540g
Length : OEM standard
Material : ????
Bolts : ????

I know you guys can't give more accurate info until you get your hands on some prototypes, but maybe update the first post with some better specs? Knowing TiC and 3MI, these things should be pretty cool. But as you've said pretty pictures and numbers are awesome.

Hopefully soon I will be ordering some more stuff from TiC and can talk to you guys about getting a cow sticker to throw onto my skidplate.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #24
Turn in Concepts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nappingcub View Post
Thanks for the explanation and link. Guess it is still going to be mysterious since people in general can't get to a consensus on how to rate stuff. Now wouldn't it be interesting if there were some standards on how drivetrain companies rate how much ft/lbs of torque their gears could withstand?

Back to topic - The approx specs would be:
HP : ~1000 CHP holding ability
RPM : ?????
Weight : ~540g
Length : OEM standard
Material : ????
Bolts : ????

I know you guys can't give more accurate info until you get your hands on some prototypes, but maybe update the first post with some better specs? Knowing TiC and 3MI, these things should be pretty cool. But as you've said pretty pictures and numbers are awesome.

Hopefully soon I will be ordering some more stuff from TiC and can talk to you guys about getting a cow sticker to throw onto my skidplate.
I'll answer what I can approximately, and Micah will fill in with more details.

HP : ~1000 CHP holding ability
RPM : Given weight paired with a decent 2618 piston offering 8K SHOULD be realistic PROVIDED you have the valvetrain to support it. In the end I would be more worried about the valvetrain than the bottom end even though it spins at half the speed.
Weight : ~540g
Length : OEM standard
Material : 4340
Bolts : ARP L19

Now as this thread takes shape, and word starts to spread someone will ask the question of price. I know you guys haven't up until now because you all know how this works on this board as you've all been around for a while.

For those of you coming in who don't know how it's done -

A general range of price has been given. You WILL NOT see an exact or even tighter given rance on price in a tech thread. NO NO NO NO!!! It is very much against the rules of pricing things outside of the for sale areas. Even if mods let it slide from time to time there are vendors out there who will report us if we do (yes, things do get that petty), and frankly the forums are about our only form of advertising so do piss them off and cut off from being able to post threads like this would be very bad for business.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:18 PM   #25
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I know you can't do pricing but any ETA on timeline?
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