My 500whp build - Element Pro Comp motor and Moore Performance Twin Scroll Kit! - Page 70

Token-Negro · 06-15-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRF582

Why do you want a fuel pump that has to be PWM controlled?

What's wrong with running a Bosch 044 at full tilt all the time?

You realize the Walbro that comes stock in the car is controlled by PWM?
Im going to say this one more time. The A1000 will work just like the 044 @100% all the time. The advantage in the A1000 is that it (CAN) if you decide to be controlled by a fuel pump control device. The 044 does not offer this.
Why would one want to control the output of a fuel pump? Two very simple reasons, fuel pump life span, and being able to control the heat put into the fuel, every time you compress the fuel it gets warmer, warm fuel is that much closer to burning when it enters the engine affecting the burn of the fuel.

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buddsautoparts.com · 06-15-2012, 02:19 PM

^ remember he does not want to run E85 so this is something that is very important to him, and as you know moore is experiencing rising fuel temps and it is causing issues for him.

Bariga · 06-15-2012, 02:30 PM

dex, if you ever going to change your aquamist kit for new one it wont work with hydra due to new HSV drawing to many amps and hydra cant handle it.

slowgenius · 06-15-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRF582

That long ass post and it still doesn't answer the question I asked.

Pump is rated at 700hp. Looks like nothing would be wrong running it full tilt to me. Maybe that would heat your fuel up, maybe it would over run your fuel pressue regulator at part throttle or idle? It looks like Tom decided to go a different route thats all. What do you think?

alcoolaid · 06-15-2012, 10:33 PM

Sell the a1000 and controller and just drop a Bosch 044 in there and call it a day.

If people are that concerned about fuel temps you can buy a fuel cooler

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 04:36 PM

Guys,

After weeks of careful consideration, advice from close friends and many comments from supporters such as you guys, I have decided to change directions a bit. I am not sure if I have mentioned it or not but I live over five and a half hours away form Phil / Element. As we all know, my car has some kind of imbalance problem causing rough idle and two cylinders to foul the spark plugs. Since Phil is so far away we are somewhat limited in our support options. I could tow the car down there for Element to work on, leave it and pick it up at a later time but that would be very inconvenient and very costly. Even if the problem that I am currently fighting didn't occur after startup, getting the car tuned so far away by the most expensive tuner that I am aware of is problematic. Again, I live five and a half hours away form Phil and by the time I transport the car down there and pay for his tuning fees its well over $1500 per tuning attempt. Since I did this four times last year (OMFG thats a lot of money!!!) I just cant afford to have an issue like this again.

Phil has and always will be a fantastic tuner to work with. Over the years he has helped me out of countless jams, talked me off the ledge may times and done a fantastic job tuning my car. When the motor blew up
last year he was REALLY there for me, if it wasn't for him I would have never gotten home that night (5.5 hours away). Unfortunately, due to my situation I am afraid that I am going to have to work with one of the
nearby shops for at least for the rest of this year. Basically, I need LOCAL support and a local tuner to assist in getting the car sorted out, I feel that this is a primary need to move this project forward. Unfortunately, I
am in an area where absolutely nobody will touch a car running a Hydra. This situation leaves me no choice but to move back to the factory ECU so that I may obtain local support.

In post 1678 I outlined a number of design considerations that require my car to run a standalone ECU. I THINK I have each of these things worked out. If you see an issue or have a concern PLEASE speak up. Thanks!
Tom

Here's my plan to address the various issues listed in post 1679:

Low Impedance Injectors - I am moving to Injector Dynamics 2000cc low impedance injectors (ID2000s)

Proprietary Injector Form Factor - I am moving to stock WRX TGV risers (TGVs deleted) and Aeromotive fuel rails

Meth control - I am not going to run meth until further notice. (see the next topic)

High compression Octane needs - I am going to run a 50/50 mix of 93oct and 110oct race fuel which should yield close to 112oct. As a safety, I am going to have the car tuned on a 60/40 mix of pump 93 to 110 which should be around 100oct. I am also going to get a 93oct map made so that I can transport the car as needed.

No O2 sensors - I am installing an innovative LC1 and adding another bung for the factory ECU's front O2 in the down pipe.

No MAF sensor / no location for the sensor - I am going to run AccessPort speed density plus an GM IAT sensor

Inadequate stock MAP sensor - I am going to run an AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor

Fuel pump controller - I designed the fuel pump setup so that if I simply unplugged the wire between the Hydra and the controller it will run at 100% duty. I am going to change the logic box in the back and run it off of a simple boost switch. 2psi and above = 100% duty, 1.99psi and below = low duty (same value that I run now for idle).

Token-Negro · 06-24-2012, 04:38 PM

Sounds like a solid move!

reid-o · 06-24-2012, 05:54 PM

You may want to find out if the local tuners can work with a standalone such as the Vipec. My point wasn't standalone versus stock ecu; it was really that most standalones need time to setup, especially on the low end. If local tuners can only do the stock ecu, then there's your answer. Plus it's easy to get support for since the low side of the map is pretty much set. It's easy to focus on the high side remotely. The low side requires that the tuner get in the car most of the time. But there are many advantages to a standalone, and this is just my opinion, they only bare out if you can tune it yourself or have someone nearby to help you out in a pinch (and for touch up).

By the way, you may lose too much resolution with a 5 bar map on the stock ecu. I'm sure that it can be done, but since the stock ECU uses load points and not pressure, scaling the timing and fuel maps to make full of use of the 5 bar may have you losing "some" resolution. What pressures do you plan to run? But a 5 bar will be great if you plan to run EVO-like pressures on a daily basis.

alcoolaid · 06-24-2012, 06:09 PM

Save yourself some money and get a gm open element IAT and zeitronix 3.5 bar map sensor.

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 06:14 PM

Thanks for the info guys!

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Save yourself some money and get a gm open element IAT and zeitronix 3.5 bar map sensor.

Like this:

Amazon.com: GM Open Element IAT Sensor with Uncrimped Connector: Automotive

And this: https://partsforspeed.com/index.php?...product_id=314

???????

Thank!

alcoolaid · 06-24-2012, 07:01 PM

Yup. You can get the pigtail version off the DIY auto tune website along with the 3/8" bung (aluminum or ss)

Layvon · 06-24-2012, 09:48 PM

Better yet, but I have no experience with it, the omnipower 4 bar is P&P with stock location / wiring.

Amazon.com: OMNI-Power B-Series Plug and Play 4 Bar MAP Sensor: Automotive

I will be curious to see how the stock computer handles this, I know that Junior has run 600+ on his Fozzy using the SD on the AP, and likes it quite a bit, so you should be able to have a solid map as long as the local people are good at tuning.

I dont know if it is somewhere in the 35 pages, but can you give me some details about the fuel pumps controller setup? I'm quite curious.
Thanks and good luck!!

KillerBMotorsport · 06-24-2012, 09:51 PM

FWIW, I've been running Cobb SD hybrid with an OEM sized blow through just before the throttle body and it works really well. Idle and low load is OEM smooth, all compensation tables are maintained if you're in traffic and experience any heat soak, and as soon as you get into it, it blends then switches to full SD using the OEM IAT sensor.

This in conbination with the PnP OMNI MAP and I have no complaints.

kellygnsd · 06-24-2012, 09:57 PM

You can also get the same or similar IAT from Ballenger Motorsports but with much better calibration curve data. A 3 point curve for a NTC thermistor just isn't enough for accurate full range measurement.

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Yup. You can get the pigtail version off the DIY auto tune website along with the 3/8" bung (aluminum or ss)

I just ordered both the sensor and the bung- $35 shipped for the pair.

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellygnsd

You can also get the same or similar IAT from Ballenger Motorsports but with much better calibration curve data. A 3 point curve for a NTC thermistor just isn't enough for accurate full range measurement.

I looked at their site. Could you please post a link to exactly what you are talking about for me and others in the future? Also, if its the same, wouldn't I be able to use those same numbers to calibrate the GM one? Thanks!

dexterous · 06-24-2012, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

Yup. You can get the pigtail version off the DIY auto tune website along with the 3/8" bung (aluminum or ss)

Is this what you used?

2fst4u2c · 06-24-2012, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dexterous

Guys,

After weeks of careful consideration, advice from close friends and many comments from supporters such as you guys, I have decided to change directions a bit. I am not sure if I have mentioned it or not but I live over five and a half hours away form Phil / Element. As we all know, my car has some kind of imbalance problem causing rough idle and two cylinders to foul the spark plugs. Since Phil is so far away we are somewhat limited in our support options. I could tow the car down there for Element to work on, leave it and pick it up at a later time but that would be very inconvenient and very costly. Even if the problem that I am currently fighting didn't occur after startup, getting the car tuned so far away by the most expensive tuner that I am aware of is problematic. Again, I live five and a half hours away form Phil and by the time I transport the car down there and pay for his tuning fees its well over $1500 per tuning attempt. Since I did this four times last year (OMFG thats a lot of money!!!) I just cant afford to have an issue like this again.

Phil has and always will be a fantastic tuner to work with. Over the years he has helped me out of countless jams, talked me off the ledge may times and done a fantastic job tuning my car. When the motor blew up
last year he was REALLY there for me, if it wasn't for him I would have never gotten home that night (5.5 hours away). Unfortunately, due to my situation I am afraid that I am going to have to work with one of the
nearby shops for at least for the rest of this year. Basically, I need LOCAL support and a local tuner to assist in getting the car sorted out, I feel that this is a primary need to move this project forward. Unfortunately, I
am in an area where absolutely nobody will touch a car running a Hydra. This situation leaves me no choice but to move back to the factory ECU so that I may obtain local support.

In post 1678 I outlined a number of design considerations that require my car to run a standalone ECU. I THINK I have each of these things worked out. If you see an issue or have a concern PLEASE speak up. Thanks!
Tom

Here's my plan to address the various issues listed in post 1679:

Low Impedance Injectors - I am moving to Injector Dynamics 2000cc low impedance injectors (ID2000s)

Proprietary Injector Form Factor - I am moving to stock WRX TGV risers (TGVs deleted) and Aeromotive fuel rails

Meth control - I am not going to run meth until further notice. (see the next topic)

High compression Octane needs - I am going to run a 50/50 mix of 93oct and 110oct race fuel which should yield close to 112oct. As a safety, I am going to have the car tuned on a 60/40 mix of pump 93 to 110 which should be around 100oct. I am also going to get a 93oct map made so that I can transport the car as needed.

No O2 sensors - I am installing an innovative LC1 and adding another bung for the factory ECU's front O2 in the down pipe.

No MAF sensor / no location for the sensor - I am going to run AccessPort speed density plus an GM IAT sensor

Inadequate stock MAP sensor - I am going to run an AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor

Fuel pump controller - I designed the fuel pump setup so that if I simply unplugged the wire between the Hydra and the controller it will run at 100% duty. I am going to change the logic box in the back and run it off of a simple boost switch. 2psi and above = 100% duty, 1.99psi and below = low duty (same value that I run now for idle).

Have fun with that!

kellygnsd · 06-24-2012, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dexterous

I looked at their site. Could you please post a link to exactly what you are talking about for me and others in the future? Also, if its the same, wouldn't I be able to use those same numbers to calibrate the GM one? Thanks!

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...roducts_id/400

If the part #'s are the same just use this cal info

alcoolaid · 06-24-2012, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dexterous

Is this what you used?

This is what I use and many others! Works great and cheap

edit: and it's the same as the one bms sells...

Boxer4turbo2004 · 06-25-2012, 12:08 AM

I have a 04 sti and I am going down the same road and phil is finishing up my full engine build..and fuel system... I am picking up my engine in about 2 weeks..any advice would be appreciated..I am shooting for over the 600 mark..running e85 and twin bosch fuel pumps..

kellygnsd · 06-25-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcoolaid

This is what I use and many others! Works great and cheap

Did that come with more than just 3 point Cal data?

alcoolaid · 06-25-2012, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellygnsd

Did that come with more than just 3 point Cal data?

It's the exact same sensor. You can use whatever data you want.

I used neither. Just used the built in AC Delphi Cal in the vipec firmware.

kellygnsd · 06-25-2012, 12:57 AM

The readings using the default AC Delphi cal curve in Vipec and the cal they supply if you manually enter them are not the same. IIRC there was about a 4C difference at 25C using the default cal curve.

06-24-2012, 04:36 PM	#1731
dexterous Scooby Guru Member#: 23553 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Slippery Rock, PA Vehicle: ZOMG my car is actually working!!!	Guys, After weeks of careful consideration, advice from close friends and many comments from supporters such as you guys, I have decided to change directions a bit. I am not sure if I have mentioned it or not but I live over five and a half hours away form Phil / Element. As we all know, my car has some kind of imbalance problem causing rough idle and two cylinders to foul the spark plugs. Since Phil is so far away we are somewhat limited in our support options. I could tow the car down there for Element to work on, leave it and pick it up at a later time but that would be very inconvenient and very costly. Even if the problem that I am currently fighting didn't occur after startup, getting the car tuned so far away by the most expensive tuner that I am aware of is problematic. Again, I live five and a half hours away form Phil and by the time I transport the car down there and pay for his tuning fees its well over $1500 per tuning attempt. Since I did this four times last year (OMFG thats a lot of money!!!) I just cant afford to have an issue like this again. Phil has and always will be a fantastic tuner to work with. Over the years he has helped me out of countless jams, talked me off the ledge may times and done a fantastic job tuning my car. When the motor blew up last year he was REALLY there for me, if it wasn't for him I would have never gotten home that night (5.5 hours away). Unfortunately, due to my situation I am afraid that I am going to have to work with one of the nearby shops for at least for the rest of this year. Basically, I need LOCAL support and a local tuner to assist in getting the car sorted out, I feel that this is a primary need to move this project forward. Unfortunately, I am in an area where absolutely nobody will touch a car running a Hydra. This situation leaves me no choice but to move back to the factory ECU so that I may obtain local support. In post 1678 I outlined a number of design considerations that require my car to run a standalone ECU. I THINK I have each of these things worked out. If you see an issue or have a concern PLEASE speak up. Thanks! Tom Here's my plan to address the various issues listed in post 1679: Low Impedance Injectors - I am moving to Injector Dynamics 2000cc low impedance injectors (ID2000s) Proprietary Injector Form Factor - I am moving to stock WRX TGV risers (TGVs deleted) and Aeromotive fuel rails Meth control - I am not going to run meth until further notice. (see the next topic) High compression Octane needs - I am going to run a 50/50 mix of 93oct and 110oct race fuel which should yield close to 112oct. As a safety, I am going to have the car tuned on a 60/40 mix of pump 93 to 110 which should be around 100oct. I am also going to get a 93oct map made so that I can transport the car as needed. No O2 sensors - I am installing an innovative LC1 and adding another bung for the factory ECU's front O2 in the down pipe. No MAF sensor / no location for the sensor - I am going to run AccessPort speed density plus an GM IAT sensor Inadequate stock MAP sensor - I am going to run an AEM 3.5 Bar MAP sensor Fuel pump controller - I designed the fuel pump setup so that if I simply unplugged the wire between the Hydra and the controller it will run at 100% duty. I am going to change the logic box in the back and run it off of a simple boost switch. 2psi and above = 100% duty, 1.99psi and below = low duty (same value that I run now for idle). Last edited by dexterous; 06-24-2012 at 10:27 PM.

06-24-2012, 09:48 PM	#1738
Layvon NASIOC Supporter Member#: 195711 Join Date: Nov 2008 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Cadillac MI Vehicle: STi 04/05/06/07 JBP / OBP for now	Better yet, but I have no experience with it, the omnipower 4 bar is P&P with stock location / wiring. Amazon.com: OMNI-Power B-Series Plug and Play 4 Bar MAP Sensor: Automotive Amazon.com: OMNI-Power B-Series Plug and Play 4 Bar MAP Sensor: Automotive I will be curious to see how the stock computer handles this, I know that Junior has run 600+ on his Fozzy using the SD on the AP, and likes it quite a bit, so you should be able to have a solid map as long as the local people are good at tuning. I dont know if it is somewhere in the 35 pages, but can you give me some details about the fuel pumps controller setup? I'm quite curious. Thanks and good luck!!

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06-15-2012, 02:19 PM	#1727
buddsautoparts.com Former Vendor Member#: 263591 Join Date: Nov 2010 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Budd Baer Inc Vehicle: 2004 being rebuilt good question!	^ remember he does not want to run E85 so this is something that is very important to him, and as you know moore is experiencing rising fuel temps and it is causing issues for him.

06-15-2012, 02:30 PM	#1728
Bariga Scooby Specialist Member#: 179846 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Renton, WA Vehicle: 07 STi MPS Build EFR 7670 TS	dex, if you ever going to change your aquamist kit for new one it wont work with hydra due to new HSV drawing to many amps and hydra cant handle it.

06-15-2012, 10:33 PM	#1730
alcoolaid Scooby Guru Member#: 134949 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Vancouver, BC Vehicle: '07 SWP STi Twinscroll ViPec Anti-lag	Sell the a1000 and controller and just drop a Bosch 044 in there and call it a day. If people are that concerned about fuel temps you can buy a fuel cooler

06-24-2012, 04:38 PM	#1732
Token-Negro Scooby Specialist Member#: 81659 Join Date: Feb 2005 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: Sammamish Vehicle: 2010 Fozzy XT Ice Silver Metallic	Sounds like a solid move!

06-24-2012, 05:54 PM	#1733
reid-o Scooby Specialist Member#: 103631 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mililani, Hawaii Vehicle: 2004 STI Black	You may want to find out if the local tuners can work with a standalone such as the Vipec. My point wasn't standalone versus stock ecu; it was really that most standalones need time to setup, especially on the low end. If local tuners can only do the stock ecu, then there's your answer. Plus it's easy to get support for since the low side of the map is pretty much set. It's easy to focus on the high side remotely. The low side requires that the tuner get in the car most of the time. But there are many advantages to a standalone, and this is just my opinion, they only bare out if you can tune it yourself or have someone nearby to help you out in a pinch (and for touch up). By the way, you may lose too much resolution with a 5 bar map on the stock ecu. I'm sure that it can be done, but since the stock ECU uses load points and not pressure, scaling the timing and fuel maps to make full of use of the 5 bar may have you losing "some" resolution. What pressures do you plan to run? But a 5 bar will be great if you plan to run EVO-like pressures on a daily basis.

06-24-2012, 06:09 PM	#1734
alcoolaid Scooby Guru Member#: 134949 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Vancouver, BC Vehicle: '07 SWP STi Twinscroll ViPec Anti-lag	Save yourself some money and get a gm open element IAT and zeitronix 3.5 bar map sensor.

06-24-2012, 06:14 PM	#1735
dexterous Scooby Guru Member#: 23553 Join Date: Aug 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Slippery Rock, PA Vehicle: ZOMG my car is actually working!!!	Thanks for the info guys!

06-24-2012, 07:01 PM	#1737
alcoolaid Scooby Guru Member#: 134949 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: VIC Location: Vancouver, BC Vehicle: '07 SWP STi Twinscroll ViPec Anti-lag	Yup. You can get the pigtail version off the DIY auto tune website along with the 3/8" bung (aluminum or ss)

06-24-2012, 09:51 PM	#1739
KillerBMotorsport NASIOC Vendor Member#: 198281 Join Date: Dec 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Virginia Vehicle: 2005 WRX/STi WRB of course	FWIW, I've been running Cobb SD hybrid with an OEM sized blow through just before the throttle body and it works really well. Idle and low load is OEM smooth, all compensation tables are maintained if you're in traffic and experience any heat soak, and as soon as you get into it, it blends then switches to full SD using the OEM IAT sensor. This in conbination with the PnP OMNI MAP and I have no complaints.

06-24-2012, 09:57 PM	#1740
kellygnsd Scooby Guru Member#: 32669 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Rancho C Vehicle: 2007 FR TS EFR 7670 LINK G4 hybrid STi	You can also get the same or similar IAT from Ballenger Motorsports but with much better calibration curve data. A 3 point curve for a NTC thermistor just isn't enough for accurate full range measurement.

06-25-2012, 12:08 AM	#1747
Boxer4turbo2004 Scooby Newbie Member#: 106190 Join Date: Jan 2006	I have a 04 sti and I am going down the same road and phil is finishing up my full engine build..and fuel system... I am picking up my engine in about 2 weeks..any advice would be appreciated..I am shooting for over the 600 mark..running e85 and twin bosch fuel pumps..

06-25-2012, 12:57 AM	#1750
kellygnsd Scooby Guru Member#: 32669 Join Date: Feb 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Rancho C Vehicle: 2007 FR TS EFR 7670 LINK G4 hybrid STi	The readings using the default AC Delphi cal curve in Vipec and the cal they supply if you manually enter them are not the same. IIRC there was about a 4C difference at 25C using the default cal curve.