knockoff Tial 38 mm mvs wastegate

[subysportSTI]

So if any of you have been shopping for a wastegate recently, you may have come across this Tial knockoff:

http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/108253268.html

They are asking for about $100 shipped direct from China and claim these are high quality copies. I was curious how this Chinese company is able to use tials design and their product description? they even engrave "made in usa" on the top.

Anyway, I bought one and my first impressions were pretty good. there's no doubt its a copy of Tial's new mvs design. It came in a small white box just like real tial products packed with the foam, 2 v band clamps, 2 banjo style nipples, and 3 plugs for the Ports you don't use.

I did however find something i'm not too excited about. I was hoping someone could comment on how this might affect boost/performance.

you can see in the pic that there's a 1/16-1/8 inch gap from the edge of the wastegate door to the side of the housing. This thing will never completely seal is what i'm getting at.





In this pic you can see the newspaper through the gap

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[RP31]

You don't have the valve seat installed though, do you?

[subysportSTI]

Originally Posted by RP31

You don't have the valve seat installed though, do you?

I have no idea, this is how I pulled it out of the box.

[RP31]

It doesn't look like you do. There's a seat that fits there (on the real thing), and yeah, if you don't have it installed, the valve will leak. And while you will build boost, it'll be slow and low.

It looks like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valve-Seat-T...-/350263172428. Fits on top of the valve between it and the V-band. Lots of people actually install these V-band EWGs and forget to put the seat in, then post asking what they could have done wrong to make their EWG "open" at idle.

[UK-Wagon]

haha, you need to install the seat when you put it on the up pipe lol. Its ok to be a noob this time.

In all honesty..... its likely a real Tial product. But since they are not a authorized dealer and likely the assembly plant they can sell them cheaper but have to state its not real for legal reasons. The aluminum machined parts can be made in the US but assembled in China like many other manufactures do. So..... really you got a very good deal. I could be wrong though and it is a total knock off. I doubt it though as this is becoming a very common trend.

[RP31]

It's common enough that TiAL has a page devoted to helping you spot fakes:

http://www.tialsport.com/realvsfake.html

Honestly from the pictures it looks like MVS fakes are hard to spot... But I can definitely tell that the seats provided with the fakes they have pictured there are made from the wrong metal. That's a dead giveaway. Also the clamps look slightly different at the hinge point.

[subysportSTI]

I would fit into that category it does come with the valve seats, 3 to be exact but they are all different sizes

[RP31]

Well according to the page I linked to, you've got a fake:

Serial Numbers Confirmed on Knockoff Units: Avoid these!
SN03091178
SN03091512
SN06100285
SN06100268

[UK-Wagon]

2 of those are for the v band flange. Only 1 is a actual valve seat. Look at the 4th pic on the site you got it from, the far right black color flange is the valve seat.

[subysportSTI]

Originally Posted by RP31

Well according to the page I linked to, you've got a fake:

Just like you mentioned, the valve seats look to be a different type of metal and the hinges on the clamps look pretty cheap. I'll post a few pics a little later. So if i'm understanding correctly I only need to use one valve seat from the uppipe to wastegate connection?

I know its risky running cheap parts like this wastegate. Do you guys think I should cut my losses and buy the real deal?

[vica153]

The machining on a real TiAL is vastly superior and the overall quality of the fake proven to be a fraction of the real TiAL.

Knowingly purchasing a product made using a stolen design and trademarked name is a scumbag move, regardless of quality or price.

[RP31]

Originally Posted by subysportSTI

Just like you mentioned, the valve seats look to be a different type of metal and the hinges on the clamps look pretty cheap. I'll post a few pics a little later. So if i'm understanding correctly I only need to use one valve seat from the uppipe to wastegate connection?

I know its risky running cheap parts like this wastegate. Do you guys think I should cut my losses and buy the real deal?

I'm guessing the valve would fail shut, which would make you overboost. You have to weigh the consequences of that... On a tuned car you probably have the overboost fuel cut set appropriately, so it might not be a big deal. But then you have the hassle of waiting for the new part and doing the install again. Personally I'd stick with the real thing, buying a used one from the FS forums if cost is an issue.

[yamahaSHO]

Originally Posted by RP31

It doesn't look like you do. There's a seat that fits there (on the real thing), and yeah, if you don't have it installed, the valve will leak. And while you will build boost, it'll be slow and low.

It looks like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Valve-Seat-T...-/350263172428. Fits on top of the valve between it and the V-band. Lots of people actually install these V-band EWGs and forget to put the seat in, then post asking what they could have done wrong to make their EWG "open" at idle.

Bigger picture (the things inside the V-bands are the seats):

Those are V-band flanges.

The seat looks like this:

[RP31]

Whoops. Been a while since I installed one. Luckily he got the idea.

[All4bSpinnin]

the seat is what's known as the "fire ring" ...you can order them from TIAL. You cannot run the wastegate with out one

[subysportSTI]

Originally Posted by vica153

The machining on a real TiAL is vastly superior and the overall quality of the fake proven to be a fraction of the real TiAL.

Knowingly purchasing a product made using a stolen design and trademarked name is a scumbag move, regardless of quality or price.

Settle down partner, there's alot of people running Ebay parts on this forum and I wouldn't call any of them scumbags. This is the first knockoff I have ever purchased and I should have known better. Thanks for your input

[vica153]

Originally Posted by subysportSTI

Settle down partner, there's alot of people running Ebay parts on this forum and I wouldn't call any of them scumbags. This is the first knockoff I have ever purchased and I should have known better. Thanks for your input

It has nothing to do with it being bought off ebay. You can get genuine TiAL parts off ebay. They stole someone's design and even have the nerve to use the name of the company they stole from and they continue to get away with it because there are plenty of scumbags who will buy it anyway.

[subysportSTI]

Originally Posted by vica153

It has nothing to do with it being bought off ebay. You can get genuine TiAL parts off ebay. They stole someone's design and even have the nerve to use the name of the company they stole from and they continue to get away with it because there are plenty of scumbags who will buy it anyway.

To be honest when I pulled the trigger and bought this, I was still under the impression that I was getting a sick deal on a real one. Only after I bought it did I message the seller and they replied saying they are high quality copies. This is besides the point, what I was referring to with the Ebay comment is those companies borrowed design ideas to create their products.

Nobody thinks your cool for calling me a scumbag. You made your point, thanks

[UK-Wagon]

yeah, OP does NOT deserve to be called a scumbag.... thats way outa line. Regardless of youre opinion of cheap parts. Im willing to bet many of you are walking around with fake or copied parts, watches, shoes, ipods, ipads & you have no damn clue. So **** with youre badgering of the OP and what he purchased. He said he didnt know it was fake till he ordered, but lets say he did know before hand.... who cares! Maybe its all he could afford for now, at least he admitted it right in the damn thread title!

Fuhhh, end of rant for now....

[vica153]

I never directly called the OP a scumbag. The implication is there, but if he somehow didn't realize it was a knockoff before he bought it then he doesn't fall into that category.

UK-wagon, it's not about the parts being cheap, you're missing the point. They blatantly copied a companies product and flaunt it as genuine.

'Borrowed design ideas', lol its called stealing. It's a despicable company and anyone who purchases their products knowing they're fake is supporting that company and said person is therefore a scumbag.

[APM Tuned]

Have you installed this unit yet? If you have and it works then great, WHEN it fails and you can't get the warrantied parts you'd like then remember that it's purchased from an unestablished source.

I've had a couple mishaps with some Tial products making it reluctant for me to run them and now that a couple other companies are making compact units so we've been trying out some other one's as well.

Here's the deal with what you call "stealing" vica, if there isn't a complete patent on something that has copyrights and trademarks then well, there are ways to go around it. They are doing this as a business, the realize that they won't be able to get the same sales as the real unit but they probably have dozens of other products they copy from sources that don't have this legal paperwork in place (mainly because it costs thousands of dollars". I agree with you that morally it's an issue but when you r speaking about business, I know the feeling of having something stolen from you and that's why for a few products we produce and sell, they are through very silent partners and very discrete factories or manufacturers. Our driveshaft was copied once and it came out that a company was producing fraudulent products when the gentleman had a failure and announced to me who had sold the unit to them. With threats they relinquished selling the product using our actual name and have sufficed to producing there own units with still having the same failure points as before because we actually spent the money and time to get it right.

Morally, ebay itself is the scumbag allowing copied parts to be sold through it with knowledge that they are copies (why I quite purchasing anything through eBay back when the "boom" hit in the earlier 2000's) so the real culprit is Ebay because without it, there would be no fraudulent sales of such products.

Just so you guys understand, with Clinton's laws that he passed in the 90's, just because it says "Made in USA" doesn't mean it actually is...take Catipillar, they make products for the company that are overseas and are assembled here still making it "Made in USA", there are more than plenty manufacturers in America doing the same thing. With the new import/export laws that might be in place soon, even knock off Chinese, Japanes, Tawainese and a couple other countries products may actually become almost he same prices as "American" made products.

OP, if your content with the product you purchased then that's great because in the end, it's about you and what you have as a review on a product that you purchased.

Scumbag may have been a bit much and a bit harsh, we don't know the financial situation of the OP nor do we completely know what is thought train is to purchase an Ebay unit (I know you don't mean that he's a scumbag but anyone else could be in the same boat with finances or thoughts of trying something else for "just because").

-Mark

[subysportSTI]

I haven't installed the wastegate yet but i'm pretty much stuck with it now. after watching the knockoff on tial's test bench it made me curious why we need the wastegate to pass such a vigorous test. In my case I might only run my car into full boost a few times each time I drive...probably get flamed for saying that.

What would cause a wastegate failure if your not working the wastegate hard enough to overheat?

[elbertmurphy]

if you get actual internals and springs for your knockoff, i'm sure it would work.

[Down_Shift]

Originally Posted by subysportSTI

I haven't installed the wastegate yet but i'm pretty much stuck with it now. after watching the knockoff on tial's test bench it made me curious why we need the wastegate to pass such a vigorous test. In my case I might only run my car into full boost a few times each time I drive...probably get flamed for saying that.

What would cause a wastegate failure if your not working the wastegate hard enough to overheat?

the valve inside, if it's not aligned right.. will not open.. and when it doesn't open. You're going to overboost.


Wait till it seizes and you overboost like crazy doing a pull onto the highway. Boom, bye bye engine.
Even real Tials have that issue.. can't imagine a knock off any better.

Post back here after about 10k miles. I'd love to hear feedback and a review though.

[APM Tuned]

Originally Posted by Down_Shift

the valve inside, if it's not aligned right.. will not open.. and when it doesn't open. You're going to overboost.


Wait till it seizes and you overboost like crazy doing a pull onto the highway. Boom, bye bye engine.
Even real Tials have that issue.. can't imagine a knock off any better.

Post back here after about 10k miles. I'd love to hear feedback and a review though.

I hit the quote button already so I'll post it...I to was about to say that the Tials seize in the sleeves. That's why I started using the Precision but they need to make a V-band that's small like the MVS so for those I've been using the turbosmart...great stuff.

-Mark