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Old 07-20-2012, 02:42 AM   #1
builthatch
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Member#: 185105
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: near the ocean, NJ
Vehicle:
2009 C63 AMG
Palladium Silver

Default OTS maps and 08+ STI

i've always had whatever tuned by a well-respected tuner in the northeast. whether high compression or nitrous...i'd usually run a stand alone, typically an Apexi Power FC, and i'd always be tuned on a dynapack with subsequent street tune.

now that i have this new STI, i contacted said tuner, who is a Cobb certified tuner and asked him if he offers e-tuning since it'd be a lot easier than driving several hours to his shop AND i only planned on running a cobb intake (because i like the sounds) and an Apexi RS EVO cat back. he said i don't even need e-tuning...or tuning. i can run an OTS stage 1 +SF map and be a-ok.

i thought these 08+ ecus were much less adaptive than the past gen ecus? i will certainly datalog to make sure nothing strange is occuring and that what is supposed to be happening is indeed happening, but does this jive with what's currently the accepted path? it just feels weird to me to be able to just run an off the shelf map and have it "ok".

second question...how do these +SF tunes react to a simple panel filter change as opposed to running an actual SF intake? is there any course of action with any of the OTS maps for a panel filter change, such as the Apexi "dry" panel filter?
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:17 AM   #2
bacalhau16
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Tunes are made for the specific intake you would be using. You couldn't use the stage 1+ sf tune with a different intake because the different intake would flow and read differently.

Many people run stage 1 using Cobb Ots tunes and are very satisfied. Issues may arise with higher altitude applications, otherwise, you're good to go.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:32 AM   #3
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by builthatch View Post
i've always had whatever tuned by a well-respected tuner in the northeast. whether high compression or nitrous...i'd usually run a stand alone, typically an Apexi Power FC, and i'd always be tuned on a dynapack with subsequent street tune.

now that i have this new STI, i contacted said tuner, who is a Cobb certified tuner and asked him if he offers e-tuning since it'd be a lot easier than driving several hours to his shop AND i only planned on running a cobb intake (because i like the sounds) and an Apexi RS EVO cat back. he said i don't even need e-tuning...or tuning. i can run an OTS stage 1 +SF map and be a-ok.

i thought these 08+ ecus were much less adaptive than the past gen ecus? i will certainly datalog to make sure nothing strange is occuring and that what is supposed to be happening is indeed happening, but does this jive with what's currently the accepted path? it just feels weird to me to be able to just run an off the shelf map and have it "ok".

second question...how do these +SF tunes react to a simple panel filter change as opposed to running an actual SF intake? is there any course of action with any of the OTS maps for a panel filter change, such as the Apexi "dry" panel filter?
Hi there. For these cars, you have the stock, AEM, and Cobb SF intake maps. Those maps must only be used with their respective intake. If you are retaining the stock intake, regardless of stock or aftermarket panel filter, you must use the stock intake map.

There is some "adjustability" with the OTS maps in that we do not just have a single map that can potentially be used with your car. There are maps for different octane fuel, so if, for example, you are running 93 octane but your fuel quality is worse than average (or you want to be more conservative), you can always run the 91 or 91ACN maps while still running 93 octane. We also have low and high wastegate versions of map which are used to correct certain issues with boost control that can vary by car (low is used is overboosting, high if underboosting). Best thing to do is to get a data log as outlined in the video below.

Certainly, though, you can see some potential gains from a custom tune. There are numerous protuners around the country that use our software and can create a custom tune if you like. But, this isn't a requirement as you can always run the OTS maps.


Bill
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Old 07-20-2012, 11:00 AM   #4
builthatch
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Member#: 185105
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: near the ocean, NJ
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2009 C63 AMG
Palladium Silver

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacalhau16 View Post
Tunes are made for the specific intake you would be using. You couldn't use the stage 1+ sf tune with a different intake because the different intake would flow and read differently.

Many people run stage 1 using Cobb Ots tunes and are very satisfied. Issues may arise with higher altitude applications, otherwise, you're good to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Hi there. For these cars, you have the stock, AEM, and Cobb SF intake maps. Those maps must only be used with their respective intake. If you are retaining the stock intake, regardless of stock or aftermarket panel filter, you must use the stock intake map.

There is some "adjustability" with the OTS maps in that we do not just have a single map that can potentially be used with your car. There are maps for different octane fuel, so if, for example, you are running 93 octane but your fuel quality is worse than average (or you want to be more conservative), you can always run the 91 or 91ACN maps while still running 93 octane. We also have low and high wastegate versions of map which are used to correct certain issues with boost control that can vary by car (low is used is overboosting, high if underboosting). Best thing to do is to get a data log as outlined in the video below.

Certainly, though, you can see some potential gains from a custom tune. There are numerous protuners around the country that use our software and can create a custom tune if you like. But, this isn't a requirement as you can always run the OTS maps.

AskCOBB - Subaru Data Logging - YouTube

Bill
thanks for the responses and clarification. i was not sure if the maps meant for intakes would overcompensate for a stock intake with panel filter, sort of like choosing a 91 map over a 93 since it would have richer trims and less aggro timing. but i understand that this is not possible.

Bill, you said "If you are retaining the stock intake, regardless of stock or aftermarket panel filter, you must use the stock intake map."

in your experience, is there a high liklihood that the car will have to be protuned based on the flow differences of a panel filter upgrade vs. the stock filter? i noticed in the map notes that it specifies in all caps a stock intake and stock panel filter.

it seems a lot of people on this forum are against changing the panel filter with the stock tune, so i'm thinking this must apply to the AP OTS maps meant for stock intakes as well.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:13 PM   #5
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by builthatch View Post
thanks for the responses and clarification. i was not sure if the maps meant for intakes would overcompensate for a stock intake with panel filter, sort of like choosing a 91 map over a 93 since it would have richer trims and less aggro timing. but i understand that this is not possible.

Bill, you said "If you are retaining the stock intake, regardless of stock or aftermarket panel filter, you must use the stock intake map."

in your experience, is there a high liklihood that the car will have to be protuned based on the flow differences of a panel filter upgrade vs. the stock filter? i noticed in the map notes that it specifies in all caps a stock intake and stock panel filter.

it seems a lot of people on this forum are against changing the panel filter with the stock tune, so i'm thinking this must apply to the AP OTS maps meant for stock intakes as well.
Subarus we are support MAF-sensor based, which means increases in airflow are not the problem as this can be measured by the MAF sensor. The issue is when you change the diameter of the intake and/or how air flows around the sensor due to the design of the intake. In that case, the tune would need to be calibrated so that the proper airflow is determined at each point.

A panel filter could, technically, impact the accuracy of the MAF sensor, but it is a much less of concern than an intake change and is generally not a problem. It could also vary with the type of intake filter. We only test with the stock intake filter, so that is why we recommend using that but you can generally use an aftermarket panel filter without issue.

Bill
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Old 07-21-2012, 12:24 AM   #6
builthatch
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 185105
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: near the ocean, NJ
Vehicle:
2009 C63 AMG
Palladium Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Subarus we are support MAF-sensor based, which means increases in airflow are not the problem as this can be measured by the MAF sensor. The issue is when you change the diameter of the intake and/or how air flows around the sensor due to the design of the intake. In that case, the tune would need to be calibrated so that the proper airflow is determined at each point.

A panel filter could, technically, impact the accuracy of the MAF sensor, but it is a much less of concern than an intake change and is generally not a problem. It could also vary with the type of intake filter. We only test with the stock intake filter, so that is why we recommend using that but you can generally use an aftermarket panel filter without issue.

Bill
thanks for the reply!

i've always been fond of cobb intakes because of their provisions for the MAF but life is a lot easier when you can keep things stock and apparently the OE intake is a pretty capable design.

we'll see...i have to keep driving this thing in stock form to finish breaking it in as per the manual but also completely assess what really need improvement.

Last edited by builthatch; 07-21-2012 at 12:41 AM.
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