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Old 04-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default 2013 Toyota RAV4



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What It Is: An extensively camouflaged prototype of the next-generation Toyota RAV4 compact crossover, the current version of which debuted in 2006. The RAV4 was mildly refreshed for 2009, but it’s ripe for a redesign. These spy photos show that the next RAV4 is going to change quite a bit from its current form and move closer to the crossover mainstream.
Why It Matters: The compact-crossover segment is a cash cow, and despite its age, the RAV4 still is one of the more popular offerings out there. When the RAV4 first went on sale in the U.S. in 1996, it was a quirky little SUV powered by a tiny four-cylinder engine. Each successive generation of the RAV4, however, has grown larger and heavier. The contemporary RAV4 can be had with a hairy-chested 3.5-liter V-6 that puts out 269 hp, and a third row of seats is available. The next iteration of the crossover, however, will need to compete with the new Ford Escape, the Mazda CX-5, as well as the venerable Honda CR-V. That means it will need to retain a roomy cabin but deliver the fuel economy buyers facing down $4-a-gallon gasoline expect.
Platform: Based on these spy photos, don’t be surprised if the new RAV4 arrives on a modified version of the current model’s platform. That’s because in addition to some drastic stylistic changes, it looks like a size increase may be in store for the 2013 as well. Although most of the car in the photos is covered up, the sweeping roofline and fast windshield make it clear that the new RAV4 will abandon its off-road pretensions and embrace its crossover roots.




The mule in the photos lacks a tailgate-mounted spare tire—the RAV4 is one of the last small SUVs to retain such a feature. (Certain “Sport” versions on sale today get spare-less tailgates, but the tailgate mounting position is the current RAV4’s default configuration.) Given the long, horizontal, Camry-like taillights on the prototype, we expect all versions of the production car will also go without the old-school setup. Up front, additional Camry-inspired touches peek through the camo, including the headlights, grille openings, and fog-light nacelles.
Powertrain: The changes to the RAV4’s powertrain should be much more evolutionary than those made to the crossover’s styling. Unlike many of its mid-size competitors, the latest Camry sedan retained its optional six-cylinder engine instead of moving to a four-cylinder-only lineup. Therefore, we expect the RAV4 to keep its brawny six; the current base engine, a 179-hp, 2.5-liter four, should carry over as well. The current RAV4’s four-cylinder still utilizes a four-speed automatic—whew, that’s a lot of “fours”—and it’s possible that Toyota will drop in a six-speed to improve fuel economy. The same upgrade could be in store for the V-6, which presently backs up to a five-speed auto.
Competition: Chevrolet Equinox, Ford Escape, GMC Terrain, Honda CR-V, Hyundai Santa Fe, Kia Sportage, Mazda CX-5.
Estimated Arrival Time: The redesigned 2013 RAV4 likely won’t appear at an auto show until later this year. It could go on sale as early as this fall. View Photo Gallery
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:10 PM   #2
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Competition: Chevrolet Equinox, Ford Escape, GMC Terrain, Honda CR-V, Hyundai Santa Fe, Kia Sportage, Mazda CX-5.
Forester doesn't even make the list of competitors... shows how much it is on the minds of the auto press.

The RAV4 is the single biggest reason that the Forester XT should be better than it is, and should be upgraded with either a direct-injected turbo engine, or an H6, even if it is 3.0 - 3.2 liters, instead of 3.6 liters.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:20 PM   #3
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Forester doesn't even make the list of competitors... shows how much it is on the minds of the auto press.

The RAV4 is the single biggest reason that the Forester XT should be better than it is, and should be upgraded with either a direct-injected turbo engine, or an H6, even if it is 3.0 - 3.2 liters, instead of 3.6 liters.
I realize that the current Outlander Sport isn't a huge volume seller (what Mitsubishi is this days?), but I think it's a legitimate competitor that they should have named.

A new RAV4 with that same 2.5-liter four-cylinder with an updated transmission (such as a six-speed auto that they mentioned briefly) would really be a pretty competitive package.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:36 PM   #4
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I remember when the RAV4 first came out back then, I thought it was a cool idea to have a little SUV like that built on a Corolla platform. Never in a million years did I think that it would become an entire vehicle segment.

The 'lil RAV has become a substantial mid sizer in its teenage years.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:49 PM   #5
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The fact that that RAV4 sells so well is testament to how many purchase based on name and reputation. I had one for a rental a few years back and found the ride and interior quality totally unacceptable for any brand in this day and age. Outside of the V6 engine I just can't understand how people could hop out of any of Toyota's competitors superior offerings and come back to the RAV4.
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:53 PM   #6
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Which year RAV4 did you have as a rental?
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:30 PM   #7
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Since I can't get an AWD daily driver coupe...

My wife likes to do gardening and landscaping, and wants a vehicle that can handle some of those materials better than the Legacy does.

We had thought about a cheap old SUV... but without a prospect for a nice new AWD road car... we're looking at newer compact SUVs.

We had looked at 2nd Gen RAV4, and Suzuki Grand Vitara, and Ford Escape, and stuff like that. Forester is on the list, but unfortunately limited to an 2.5X Premium 5-speed, which is hard to find.

My wife really likes the Jeep Patriot, and the newer Libertys almost as much.

I really wish there were more options with better than FAUX-Wheel-Drive (slip-induced FWD->AWD), like a better Forester option.

For some reason, she likes forester, but absolutely HATES Outback wagon, like a BP chassis XT or 3.0R, and will not tolerate the "station wagon effect", and doesn't understand why I have no problem at all with it. So no wagons, not even lifted ones.

So I have been paying more attention to these vehicles lately, and they all seem like mostly "weaksauce" in one way or another.

Is there nothing between the extremes of Faux-wheel-drive, and solid-axle, transfer-case Wrangler?

Other than the V6 having some power in the RAV4, it seems like a below-average finish on an appliance.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:08 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
Since I can't get an AWD daily driver coupe...

My wife likes to do gardening and landscaping, and wants a vehicle that can handle some of those materials better than the Legacy does.

We had thought about a cheap old SUV... but without a prospect for a nice new AWD road car... we're looking at newer compact SUVs.

We had looked at 2nd Gen RAV4, and Suzuki Grand Vitara, and Ford Escape, and stuff like that. Forester is on the list, but unfortunately limited to an 2.5X Premium 5-speed, which is hard to find.

My wife really likes the Jeep Patriot, and the newer Libertys almost as much.

I really wish there were more options with better than FAUX-Wheel-Drive (slip-induced FWD->AWD), like a better Forester option.

For some reason, she likes forester, but absolutely HATES Outback wagon, like a BP chassis XT or 3.0R, and will not tolerate the "station wagon effect", and doesn't understand why I have no problem at all with it. So no wagons, not even lifted ones.

So I have been paying more attention to these vehicles lately, and they all seem like mostly "weaksauce" in one way or another.

Is there nothing between the extremes of Faux-wheel-drive, and solid-axle, transfer-case Wrangler?

Other than the V6 having some power in the RAV4, it seems like a below-average finish on an appliance.
Why not just slap a hitch on your car and buy a utility trailer? That's what i did. Assuming you get uhaul or your mechanic to install it, the hitch and wiring should run you about $400. A good 5x8 utility trailer with a ramp gate will run you about $600, or even less if you search craiglist. So for $1000, you can fit way more gardening and landscaping materials on the trailer. Not to mention i've moved furniture, appliances, and tow my motorcycle around with it.

Over the past 2 years my trailer has paid for itself in delievery fees. Plus no matter what you do, trading in your car for a new one will cost you way more than $1000. Not to mention your 2005 Legacy is rated for 2700lbs of towing capacity(i wouldn't try it that far though), and you can buy a full 2" hitch for your car.

Note: You'll have to practice backing up a trailer in an open parking lot. Turning the wheel is opposite of your car.

Last edited by gggplaya; 04-11-2012 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 05:58 PM   #9
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I just has a thought hip.

Do you give your wife as much grief as you give us about car choices!!!!

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Old 04-11-2012, 06:11 PM   #10
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I have towed before.

My legacy is slightly lowered on Spec.B suspension and RallyTek springs, and has aftermarket magnaflow mufflers, I am not sure if a trailer hitch would still fit, and I am not sure I would want one on it, if it did.

Then there is the aspect of storing or parking the trailer when it isn't being used, which our garage is not large enough to do, and storing it outside in her landscaping area would not be a popular option.

And some of the plant flats would probably get blown away if carried on an external trailer or bed, which is why she doesn't seem so keen on a cheap used pickup truck.

Plus, she likes to pick up things that she can't always find locally, or antique things for the house, when we are on road trips... which we don't plan on pulling an empty trailer to, just in case.

Most of the time it is bags of mulch or gravel or bricks for the patio, or stuff like that, which are a bit bulky for a relatively smaller trunk, with no fold-down seats, but not so big that we need to rent a full-size truck in order to carry.

Plus part of it, is upgrading to a newer vehicle with fewer miles, to last farther into the future, is part of the deal.

We have 3 vehicles now... and the plan is to change the two Subarus for something more utilitarian, and something else.

I was hoping the something else would be something sporty for me to drive, and she could have her choice of the CUV and Miata to drive... but I can't find the AWD sport coupe I want, that isn't prohibitively old to consider using as a year-round daily driver for the mid to long-term future.

So we look at CUVs.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:11 PM   #11
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I just has a thought hip.

Do you give your wife as much grief as you give us about car choices!!!!

You have no idea.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:28 PM   #12
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I see no spare on the tailgate. I like it as a styling feature, but it forces the current Rav into a swinging tailgate and is hellacious when you get rear ended (lots of damage to the chassis because the tire is often the point of contact). Probably best the spare is in the trunk even though it will take that handy cargo area under the floor.

My mom has a '10 Rav4 V6 Limited 4WD. It is shockingly roomy, stupid fast, and reasonably efficient (she normally sees 27mpg). I like the fact that you can lock it in 4WD where most cute utes leave you relying on the computer. Hopefully that carries over.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post

Other than the V6 having some power in the RAV4, it seems like a below-average finish on an appliance.
Don't underestimate the 3.5 V6 in the RAV6, it's downright quick. On the other hand, it doesn't handle nearly as well as a Forester or Forester XT for that matter.

Seriously though, that V6 is a nice engine.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:37 PM   #14
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I see no spare on the tailgate. I like it as a styling feature, but it forces the current Rav into a swinging tailgate and is hellacious when you get rear ended (lots of damage to the chassis because the tire is often the point of contact). Probably best the spare is in the trunk even though it will take that handy cargo area under the floor.
We were looking at the Suzuki Grand Vitara, which has the side-swing door, too. It got kyboshed, because you can't leave the gate or the rear window open to carry cargo any longer than the cabin, and the cabin isn't all that long. The only alternative would be to always have cross-bars and a roof rack, which the rest of the time make noise, and sap aerodynamics, and things like a push-mower don't really go up there anyway, where the handle might need some length.

That is one reason why the Ford Escape/Mariner/Tribute family comes back up... it has opening rear glass, as well as an overhead gate.

At least an overhead gate can get lashed down and still leave an opening at the bottom.

I have seen RAV4s, and other tailgate spare-carrying vehicles have dented in rear doors before. I kind of suspected that the minuscule rear bumper was mostly pointless underneath that. Interesting to hear more about that. Plus, getting rear ended isn't necessarily something you have control over, as it is usually someone else's fault, but big body and chassis damage is never fun to deal with.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83 View Post
Which year RAV4 did you have as a rental?
I've driven a couple now over the years. The latest I drove was a 2010 model I believe.

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Seriously though, that V6 is a nice engine.
It's a nice engine and has real 4WD wich are the strong points but you don't expect the ride to mimic an EVO over rough pavement and interior materials that would be embaressing at a $10,000 price point. As a former MR2 Turbo (the plushest interior carpet and nicest materials I've seen in a Japanese non-luxury car) owner it makes me sad to see just how far Toyota has fallen with their interiors. I knew they were cutting costs but man it's bad and it's not only the RAV4 as the new Camry is horrlble as well.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:27 AM   #16
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
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Looks like it attended a toga party and woke up after an all night drunk.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:29 PM   #18
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Are there any new vehicles in this class that are worthy of some off-roading and rough winter conditions? The Forester's always been great - hopefully that doesn't change. The CR-V is absolutely worthless and I wonder about the CX-5 (which I really like), the new RAV-4, and the Escape in these situations. I realize that even a Camry with snow tires can tackle most things, but it'd be nice if these bigger, taller cars could do a little more than that.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:53 PM   #19
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Looks like it attended a toga party and woke up after an all night drunk.
...or patrons ran out of small bills.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:15 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Integra96
Are there any new vehicles in this class that are worthy of some off-roading and rough winter conditions? The Forester's always been great - hopefully that doesn't change. The CR-V is absolutely worthless and I wonder about the CX-5 (which I really like), the new RAV-4, and the Escape in these situations. I realize that even a Camry with snow tires can tackle most things, but it'd be nice if these bigger, taller cars could do a little more than that.
The Forester has a good AWD system but the others are all weaker FWD-based Torsen systems... except that the RAV4 had a center diff lock in the last version, oddly. That'd kick it to 2nd place in my mind.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:02 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
Are there any new vehicles in this class that are worthy of some off-roading and rough winter conditions? The Forester's always been great - hopefully that doesn't change. The CR-V is absolutely worthless and I wonder about the CX-5 (which I really like), the new RAV-4, and the Escape in these situations. I realize that even a Camry with snow tires can tackle most things, but it'd be nice if these bigger, taller cars could do a little more than that.
Remember the upcoming Subaru XV Crosstrek... should have better approach/departure angles than Forester, and it has the same clearance.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:01 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
The Forester has a good AWD system but the others are all weaker FWD-based Torsen systems... except that the RAV4 had a center diff lock in the last version, oddly. That'd kick it to 2nd place in my mind.
It's not a real diff "lock". It's a multi-plate wet clutch just like any other FWD based 4wd system. The only thing the lock button does is it preemptively sets the differential to full power which pushes the plates together at their maximum force. The plates still slip when you apply enough torque and power will follow the path of least resistance.

You can see how it actually works at this website:
http://www.majormedia2.com/4WDSimplifiedv5/4WD.html


Subaru's system is still better because it's symmetrical, and doesn't bias torque to one side or another.

Last edited by gggplaya; 08-13-2012 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:50 PM   #23
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It's not a real diff "lock". It's a multi-plate wet clutch just like any other FWD based 4wd system. The only thing the lock button does is sets the differential to full power which pushes the plates together at their maximum force. The plates still slip when you apply enough torque and power will follow the path of least resistance.

Subaru's system is still better, and can offer more available torque to any wheel.
Don't the new Subaru systems have open front and rear duffs meaning they would have to use the brakes to move torque left to right.... Just like all these FWD based systems?

Either way, shik was just saying it was 2nd place, ahead of the systems that have 3 open diffs and use braking to control the torque.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:13 PM   #24
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Don't the new Subaru systems have open front and rear duffs meaning they would have to use the brakes to move torque left to right.... Just like all these FWD based systems?

Either way, shik was just saying it was 2nd place, ahead of the systems that have 3 open diffs and use braking to control the torque.
Yes, subaru uses braking limited slip which offers more available torque to the nonslipping wheel which works very well in snow and rain, but it won't offer anywhere near enough torque to do any rock crawling type driving.

Shik is mistaken the way it's worded which makes it sound like it has an actual diff lock, the RAV4 is no different than any other FWD based 4wd system. It only has that button to preemptively set the multiplate clutch to maximum hold. The other vehicles will have a slight lag until the computer recognizes slip and adds more current to the solenoid to achieve maximum hold. But some vehicles start from a dead stop at maximum hold like the first gen acura MDX, and then scales back the 4WD after about 8mph.
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:30 PM   #25
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Yes, subaru uses braking limited slip which offers more available torque to the nonslipping wheel which works very well in snow and rain, but it won't offer anywhere near enough torque to do any rock crawling type driving.

Shik is mistaken the way it's worded which makes it sound like it has an actual diff lock, the RAV4 is no different than any other FWD based 4wd system. It only has that button to preemptively set the multiplate clutch to maximum hold. The other vehicles will have a slight lag until the computer recognizes slip and adds more current to the solenoid to achieve maximum hold. But some vehicles start from a dead stop at maximum hold like the first gen acura MDX, and then scales back the 4WD after about 8mph.
The new 6AT 4WD systems for Toyota use 3 differentials without the ability to force the transfer case into a lock condition. I haven't had a Venza/Sienna/RX350 back to back against my Mom's Rav, but my impression is that the Rav has a better system because you can preemptively tell the car to get into a more aggressive 4WD mode. I don't think anyone was talking about rock crawling. I wouldn't take FWD based anything "real off road" (or a Subaru for that matter... way too much over hang).
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