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Old 08-07-2012, 11:40 AM   #1
OC_Nooby
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2003 WRX w STI V8

Default False Knock? IAM 16 with fine corrections.

Hey Guys,

I trully think I have false knock. My car is stupid loud (everywhere).

To start off with:

CP Pistons 8:2:1
Manley I rods
Nitrated Crank
Manley Valve Springs
STI 2.5L LongBlock
STI TMIC
ATP GT3076R ~14psi
Solid drive terrain bushings (rear diff, crossmemeber, rear subframe, motor mounts, tranny mount etc)
3" turbo back
FIC 1100cc injectors
NGK 1 step colder plugs (iridium)
Running 94 octane

I had a skid plate on the car for a bit but took it off.

Alright so I'm running all this in a 2003 WRX with a WRX ECU, manifold (cable throttle), all WRX harness (so no AVCS, oil line still hooked up though).

I have transferred all the STI parameters over that I could to the WRX ecu. Main thing to know is STI base ignition map + advance knock Max map and STI open loop map.

The tune is bang on, concerning A/F. Idle/Cruise is 14.5 and WOT is 11.2 @ 14psi.

This car loves timing and you can definitely feel the power with stock timing but my ecu thinks it sees knock. So I had everything stock before (timing map wise). Now I removed a solid 4-5 degrees from the Advance Max knock table. The IAM went to 16 as it usually does but fine knock correction is reporting some instances of -7 knock pulled back. This was all before I installed the new sparkplugs and currently I'm at IAM of 12 and I have done some hard pulls without any change. So clearly it doesn't like something.

I'm about to install meth and run the stock STI base timing map and Advance map and if it still knocks can I truly say its false? When I had my skid plate on the car IAM was at 0. Thats how loud the plate was (though I never really herd it).

My CP pistons are loud and my exhaust has a slight rattle (resonance at 3-4k). I'm thinking this is the issue, not the tune.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:03 PM   #2
BlazeRex
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Slow Automatics

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Timing isnt like a power / safety knob. Less timing doesnt always mean safer or less knock. In theory there is one ideal timing for a specific combustion reaction. I assure you a 3076 equipped car has quite different timing than stock.

More evaluation would have to be done to determine if the knock is "false"
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:24 PM   #3
OC_Nooby
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More timing to a certain degree won't be beneficial. Will make less power. A dyno will tell me that. So far IAM is at 16 with zero correction across the board. I think this colder plugs are doing the trick. I'll keep on logging.

The only reason I bring false knock to the equation is because I had an IAM of 0 with the skid plate on.
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Old 08-10-2012, 10:08 AM   #4
paul_p1
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Have you listened to your engine with detcans?
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:06 PM   #5
OC_Nooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_p1 View Post
Have you listened to your engine with detcans?
No I haven't, I should make some.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:07 PM   #6
OC_Nooby
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det can made, I did a 5th gear pull and the ecu pulled timing with an IAM of 16. I couldn't hear any marbles in a can sound. So it seems my car is just naturally loud and producing a false knock.
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:23 PM   #7
paul_p1
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Did it pull timing via FBKC or FLKC?
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Old 08-23-2012, 04:32 PM   #8
Nuke209
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should tune it properly

and also make sure knock sensor is installed and torqued properly.
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Old 08-23-2012, 09:18 PM   #9
OC_Nooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_p1 View Post
Did it pull timing via FBKC or FLKC?
I was checking it out via Learning View so FLKC (which was pulling timing).

Knock sensor is properly installed/pointing in the correct direction. Det can is installed right on top of the knock sensor.

On a side note, I have this rattle from underneath the car and I can hear it at 2-4k then it disappears (probably engine noise is to great to listen too after 4k). I hear it without det cans. With the det can I hear what can be described as clanking and the faster I rev the faster it goes, sounds normal to me.
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:26 PM   #10
ProfessWRX
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You could always run some race gas and scan for knock. If it stays the same it's false.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:40 AM   #11
paul_p1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC_Nooby View Post
I was checking it out via Learning View so FLKC (which was pulling timing).

Knock sensor is properly installed/pointing in the correct direction. Det can is installed right on top of the knock sensor.

On a side note, I have this rattle from underneath the car and I can hear it at 2-4k then it disappears (probably engine noise is to great to listen too after 4k). I hear it without det cans. With the det can I hear what can be described as clanking and the faster I rev the faster it goes, sounds normal to me.
Well if it's learned knock then why would you expect to hear it on the detcans?
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Old 08-24-2012, 01:34 PM   #12
ProfessWRX
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I am new to these cars still, but could that be a loose heatshield somewhere? That's a pretty common issue with weird rattling at certain RPMs.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:36 PM   #13
OC_Nooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
You could always run some race gas and scan for knock. If it stays the same it's false.
I have meth with the tune and it knocks in the exact same places. Knocked at the same spots before meth and after meth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_p1 View Post
Well if it's learned knock then why would you expect to hear it on the detcans?
It learnt the knock during my 5th gear pull while I was listening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfessWRX View Post
I am new to these cars still, but could that be a loose heatshield somewhere? That's a pretty common issue with weird rattling at certain RPMs.
Don't have any of those on my car

On a side note, I'm currently running stock 05 STI timing (with some smoothing done to the stock timing map as it was lumpy in some spots) A/F at 11.2-11.7 mid range to redline with Meth @ 18.5psi. Car pulls real nice, no knock. I'll richen it a tad to 11.5 with a little more meth. It was also a pretty hot day

Last edited by OC_Nooby; 08-29-2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:12 PM   #14
BlazeRex
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Seems like you need to do some more research on how to do a proper timing map.
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Old 08-29-2012, 07:03 PM   #15
OC_Nooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeRex View Post
Seems like you need to do some more research on how to do a proper timing map.
Why do you say that? Seriously id like to know.
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #16
BlazeRex
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Making a proper timing map will get you more power, and playing around with it will help you determine more where the car likes/dislikes timing and different trends.
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:03 PM   #17
OC_Nooby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeRex View Post
Making a proper timing map will get you more power, and playing around with it will help you determine more where the car likes/dislikes timing and different trends.
Yes I understand. Right now it's just me and its hard to listen to knock and do some high load pulls. I have played with timing and so far this is where it likes it. I was planning to up the boost 22-24psi and keep A/F at 11.5 while maintaining said timing map. Once I hit my target psi without knocking i'll hit the dyno and play more with timing. This way I can see the true effect.

I'll be sharing my map on RomRaider and hopefully people can critique it once I'm done with it. Help me smooth it out if need be.
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