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09-07-2012, 12:58 AM | #26 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 127907
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Minnesota
Vehicle:99RS 9.54 @ 146 2.65L & FOBIA fab & S374 |
I've been running this type of setup for years now, I'm not sure about the GD chassis but I fit an S374 twin scoll w/ 1.10 A/R in my GM/GC body with minimal cutting of the body.
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09-07-2012, 01:24 AM | #27 |
Former Vendor
Member#: 265606
Join Date: Nov 2010
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Manchester, NH
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Ill have to talk to you guys more about your scavenge pump setup. Im doing a low mount turbo in my drag wagon, and Ive got a bunch of room to play with up front since I moved the engine back.
I want to put a turbo on there that is in the 80-90lb/min range Good move on going SD! I dont use COBB at all here, but SD is so much better than MAF even on normal cars. Wicked M@ |
09-07-2012, 01:34 AM | #28 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Vehicle:'02 WRX; '08 OBXT; '08 G37 (S/C'd); '09 XF |
nice work guys!
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09-07-2012, 02:06 AM | #29 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 127704
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: TX/Austin
Vehicle:2015 Boosted Stang MAP tuned |
Way to go - like it
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09-07-2012, 02:22 AM | #30 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 158864
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Aussieland
Vehicle:2003 SOHC destroker |
i still don't understand what the actual advantage of this is?
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09-07-2012, 02:29 AM | #31 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 269226
Join Date: Jan 2011
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From what I can see, the exhaust manifold is shorter. Shorter distance between the exhaust port and the turbine means better response. This setup also makes for much shorter IC piping; shorter distance from the turbo outlet to the throttle body means better response. The intake is extremely short and also gets cold air; shorter pipe means less pressure drop before the compressor which reduces the pressure ratio you have to run to get the same absolute pressure in the intake manifold. Less pressure ratio/less boost means the air comes out of the turbo cooler leading to more power and also quicker response. Colder intake air also means quicker response and more power. The exhaust flow path out of the turbine housing is nice and straight followed by big gentle bends. This should have much less flow resistance compared to a stock location turbo with a much sharper 90 degree turn right after the turbine housing which increases back pressure and hurts power.
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09-07-2012, 09:08 AM | #32 | ||||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
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Yeah that's a big turbo, should make a great drag car! Still using Cobb, but the new SD feature is well worth it! I'm no tuner, but since running SD I have fewer, or no, complaints. Thanks guys! Apreciate the kind words! Quote:
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Correct, the manifold is shorter. Centerline distance has been reduced a hair over 26 inches, which is a lot. This is a generalization but, generally, a change on the exhaust side (pre-turbo) is equivalent to that change X2 on the compressor side. So removing 1" of pressurized volume is like removing 2" on intercooler tubing. Less volume means the manifold become pressurized faster and in turn spin the turbine. That coupled with us using our current Holy Header design that already reduces pre-turbo volume significantly makes for a massive difference in pre-turbo volume vs a typical EL setup or a rotated setup. This is one of the reasons the EVO will get better turbocharger performance with a similarly sized turbo. There are also ~180° fewer bends vs a turbo up high reducing turbulence and increasing flow performance. At first I didn't think going stright in/out of the turbine would have that significant an effect. When I started showing sketches to Garrett they REALLY liked the straight in/out and felt this would be a significant advantage over the typical Suby design (OEM or rotated) that takes a sharp 90° bend immediately upon exiting the turbine housing. On the cold side, compared to 'traditional' FMIC setups, there is a HUGE volume reduction. Again it comes back to being able to build boost faster because there is less space to fill. Having MANY fewer bends doesn't hurt either I had originally wanted to do a rotated intake manifold as well, but after some calulations, the gains were not significant vs my desire to keep A/C and one thing I really don't like about rotated manifolds is that it cooks the intercooler tubing since it's right behind a 180-200° radiator. I had concerns on how this would effect intake temps and most importantly the MAF accuracy. |
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09-07-2012, 09:31 AM | #33 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Micro aggression turnt
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Doing all that work and not front facing the inlet/intake has me scratching my head.
Carmi aka soon2bblackongold |
09-07-2012, 09:52 AM | #34 |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
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09-07-2012, 09:53 AM | #35 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 46135
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: NY
Vehicle:19 GLA45 AMG C63 AMG |
I have limited access to thread pictures from work, was able to see the 2 dyno sheets.
Is it correct to say that you got to 24 PSI by around 3900-4000 RPM? Was this 4th gear with intake temperature over 70F? There could be additional spool advantages with reversing the manifold, but that would complicate the turn-key side of this package and I know that reliabillity is a main goal with KB, so I think they made the right choice keeping it the way it is. Personally, I'd like to see a smaller turbo with a quicker spool as an option here (something good for 320 WHP, fully spooled by 3300 RPM), but it's a nice option as it is. |
09-07-2012, 09:55 AM | #36 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Micro aggression turnt
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09-07-2012, 10:18 AM | #37 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 82720
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: a mile high COLORADO!
Vehicle:1993 any 93 + subaru dirty or snowy |
is that small radiator really up to cooling a heavy use car??
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09-07-2012, 10:29 AM | #38 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 278519
Join Date: Apr 2011
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Phatbotti
Vehicle:30r E85 sti 450+whp kb'izzle |
soon2bblackongold, that would be pretty nice to have
just a screen, no elbow, or barely a filter, |
09-07-2012, 10:55 AM | #39 | ||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
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Yes. Volume wise it is OEM-ish. This particular setup should be good for just over 500whp and with a 'money is no object' fan/shroud setup it should be good for ~600whp. So far temps stay right in line. The core is a very efficient design, and certainly not anything like the cheapo rads that people buy like drunken sailors. Just to give you an idea, I'd need to sell the radiator alone for $650+ to make any money. There is way more flow capacity, with that filter/elbow setup, than that turbo will ever need. I don't see it as a choke point. We'll see if things change with the GTX3576-R, but I'd be really surpised if it did. |
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09-07-2012, 11:18 AM | #40 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 81102
Join Date: Feb 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Micro aggression turnt
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Quote:
As this is more of a street car, I understand why kb is saying what it's saying. BUT, there are some cars running front facing turbo kits on multiple platforms, doing daily driving. There is room (with moving stuff around, though), it's hard to do, and 10x harder on a street car. Kb is a company, and selling one off kits, when people have such different setups, makes zero sense, so again, I understand. My comment was based on the fact that so much work was done already. This mounting for subies is still in it's infancy.(not for fobia though, he was ahead of the game with that fog light kit) +1 for kb for making this kit, it's undoubtedly better than a rotated mount and the oem low mount. Look's beefy, too. Last edited by CatfaceType-R; 09-07-2012 at 11:27 AM. |
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09-07-2012, 12:13 PM | #41 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 10854
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Los Angeles, CA.
Vehicle:'02 WRX; '08 OBXT; '08 G37 (S/C'd); '09 XF |
So as far as the pipes go, is this kit meant to mount up to any off the shelf Suby turbo with regards to the flanges on the header/downpipe? If so, stock location or rotated turbos? And if it was designed to use garret turbos, then the derivatives should work too, like ATP, Blouch, FP, etc, right?
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09-07-2012, 12:35 PM | #42 | ||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
Quote:
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09-07-2012, 02:42 PM | #43 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 108051
Join Date: Feb 2006
Chapter/Region:
AKIC
Location: Oneonta, NY
Vehicle:2005 WRX STi WRB |
Nice work as always, I like the way you built it around the straight in straight out theory. I'd just re-locate the oil filter. Maybe design a v-mount style kit also that would be sick!
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09-07-2012, 03:02 PM | #44 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 248428
Join Date: Jun 2010
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Ft. Lewis, Wa (currently)
Vehicle:2006 STI FROZEN GREY |
enough said |
09-07-2012, 04:13 PM | #45 | |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
You mean relocate it like this... |
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09-07-2012, 06:47 PM | #46 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 204652
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: newburyport, ma
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Do you guys feel the turbo is vulnerable? Im glad to see someone else going this direction, I think I may do a low mount next year. I have a V-mount so it has some pros/cons compared to your direction.
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09-07-2012, 09:41 PM | #47 | |
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
As far as the turbo, it's very well protected. It sits right above the subframe support. |
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09-07-2012, 11:04 PM | #48 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 309709
Join Date: Feb 2012
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: Utah
Vehicle:99 Rs coupe |
I'd say this is like the END all kit for the impreza if you want bolt on, every day daily driven reliability, and high performance with as little as sacrifice as possible..
Lot of people said +200whp @2500 rpm and +400 whp was not achievable with the motor and chassis.. Much respect Chris. It looks well made, it shows great performance, if its anything like the quality of work anyone who has your parts has seen, it's SUPER HIGH QUALITY.. I can't wait to ride in a car with this kit on it.. I'd wonder what some ported heads, cams, and a 35r would do.. If cooling is an issue for the super high hp guys couldn't you install a second smaller radiator up near the fog lights?.. Not entirely like this, but similar idea.. I tried to find something More like what I was referring to quick, but you could probably get the idea.. |
09-08-2012, 10:16 AM | #49 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 44836
Join Date: Oct 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Vehicle:1999 Fozzy silver |
My personal favorite thing about threads like these are all the usual suspects getting into their seats in the peanut gallery. "you need to put wire around the inlet because blahblahblah" "you should have put the turbo here" "you should have made it face this way" "thats not right, it needs to be this way because ferarri and porsche do.."
Seriously? ****. Nothing is more annoying than people who didnt/cant/wont telling the people who have/are how to do what they did. Rant aside, nice job, kb. Having the turbo in the same zip code as the heads will do wonders for drivability/power curve. |
09-08-2012, 10:51 AM | #50 | ||
NASIOC Vendor
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:2005 WRX/STi WRB of course |
Quote:
I looked at split radiators, but it kept coming back to additional fabrication work for the customer and increased costs. Could it be done that way, yes. Would it be more expensive, yes. Would thier be bigger gains to be had, maybe? Even with this kit as-is, a little fab work and a larger turbo could be used. Long term, if we do eventually turn this into more of a track duty car, I'd like to explore a trunk radiator. Eliminating the rad from the engine bay has HUGE ramifications as far as heat reduction, airflow, and space! Quote:
Thanks for the kind words! |
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