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Old 04-24-2012, 01:29 PM   #151
Qbanz
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FWIW, I wouldn't coat them on the inside. Flakes of coating hitting a turbine wheel spinning over 100,000 RPMs is bad juju. Most companies, will only coat the inside on N/A cars.

Also, if the coating is good, the wrap is overkill. No testing (that I've see anyway) shows better performance characteristics or reduced underhood temps. The laws of diminishing returns is in play here and you'd likely get a better bang for the buck spending else where.[/quote]

Thanks for the great advise !!
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:45 PM   #152
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Wrapping and coating is about keeping heat energy inside the header to help with spool. Not to keep underhood temps down.

And I agree with not coating the inside of the header.
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Old 04-24-2012, 02:26 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdblock View Post
Wrapping and coating is about keeping heat energy inside the header to help with spool. Not to keep underhood temps down.
That's why I said performance or underhood temps.

Regardless, I've seen no test data that shows wraping on top of a good coating amounts to anything except a lighter pocket. If you got real data to prove otherwise, I'm sure us nasiocers would enjoy the info.
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Old 04-24-2012, 03:05 PM   #154
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I wrapped mine after FullRace gave me crap coatings. The under the hood temp is much less then the ceramic coat. But then again the ceramic coat was crap.

No notice on spool.. not driven it enough yet.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:58 PM   #155
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to be honest the second header I did not coat (to keep the warranty) and I noticed no change in spool characteristics. If there is a change from higher heat either the 1.5 scroll masks this, or it takes a larger than stock turbo for this to become apparent.

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Old 04-25-2012, 10:41 AM   #156
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The most significant benefit offered by a ceramic coating is that they stop corrosion, and effectively lower surface stress/tension. I believe a coating + header wrap is best becuase the coating will serve to make the manifold last longer, and the header wrap will lower underhood temps. Ive seen this on my personal race car as well as many other cars weve built over the years. If its a race car with heat vents thru the hood, this is not as much of an issue. If its a street car that will be driven long distances or in winter snow/salt roads or through the desert with A/C on - then it may be worth coating + wrapping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTSparky View Post
My coater said that there was no way the coating caused the header to crack. When I checked the header it seemed that one of the welds was incomplete.
in my experience, the coating is more of a an aid to make the header last a long life. The wrap will do most of the insulating, howeve wraps do not help with corrosion, thats why I like both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay25RS View Post
But Batlground who originally said that it was cool to wrap or coat their product changed their mind. (And of course your coater who makes money by coating things would say there's no way it would cause that problem whether it did or not.) [edit: I don't think a coating should hurt the header in any way but Batlground changed their minds from saying pretty much to do what you want to don't coat or wrap it after Sparky's problem.]
note: dont listen to the idiots over there

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinscrollGT35R View Post
I don't know man... My car was used for 3 track days at Willow Springs. 1 drive from SF to Phx non stop. And PHX to LA and back for Subiefest. All this being just over two years old. The rest of the time is sat in the shop that built it or in my garage at home. Not very much driving reguardless. And you can see the crap flake right off. When FullRace was asked.. Not only was Raffy really rude, But I never got a call back by Geoff about it. I have even better photos as well.. But to spend the few $100 to get everything coated to just have it flake off is bull ****.
hello, I did not know you expected a call from me? I dont typically handle these matters but fyi all of our coatings are rated to 2000deg and done locally by an aerospace coatings firm (we are located at the phoenix airport) and carry a warranty, if you want to get the header recoated just send the parts in with an RMA, not anything worth getting upset about

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Also, if the coating is good, the wrap is overkill. No testing (that I've see anyway) shows better performance characteristics or reduced underhood temps. The laws of diminishing returns is in play here and you'd likely get a better bang for the buck spending else where.
it definitely has reduced underhood temps when wrapping the manifold, dp and turbine housing, ive seen 30-40degF difference on cars with no ducting/vent thru the hood. on a subaru there is a HUGE amount of surface area, doing everything possible to reduce the heat given off is smart
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:30 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff View Post

hello, I did not know you expected a call from me? I dont typically handle these matters but fyi all of our coatings are rated to 2000deg and done locally by an aerospace coatings firm (we are located at the phoenix airport) and carry a warranty, if you want to get the header recoated just send the parts in with an RMA, not anything worth getting upset about
I'm more pissed off on how your employee comes off acting like he is god himself. And how the coating guys never have problems and its all my fault. The car has been parked in a shop almost the whole last two years.

Joe and I were surprised over all this. I was really pissed off. Seeing one of your other employees has been very nice and helpful to me.

Oh and ask Raffy, I told him to have you call me. Guess he's to good to pass that along. Since he is god.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:41 PM   #158
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Well I have been in contact with the actual manufacturer of the headers "private manufacturing label" I think... And they did recommend coating the headers....
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #159
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Well guys I wanted to update my status.
For most of the time the car after redoing the header bolts has been fine, until a few days ago.

You see last week I decided to go and upgrade my fuel pump and injectors and get a e85 tune.

While I had some issues with that, and am still fine tuning any resultant issues away I noticed that I have developed an exhaust leak. I'm not sure where since I haven't been under the car in a few days, but I suspect it is at the manifold to head gasket on the driver side. It is mostly present when cold and once the pipe warms up the ticking sound tends to diminish.

I have ordered some GrimmSpeed gaskets for it and I may even try some red RTV sealant.

however I think I may have to finally step away from this header and get something that will fit well.

I just think the poor fitment with all of the torque have have done the header in.


GOPR0804 by CTSparky, on Flickr

Last edited by CTSparky; 10-02-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:02 AM   #160
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Any update??
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:30 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Any update??

I had my local shop weld the header. Specifically they removed some material, put the header under stress and then re-welded it.

So far it is ok.

However I would not recommend buying this header unless you have access to a welder and reweld all of the problem areas before putting it on your car.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:17 PM   #162
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Out of curiousity, what was batlground charging? I see private label charges upwards of $700, but it's on ebay now for under $450 shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBARU-IMPRE...item3f1ff47b60
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:41 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by spiralsmurf View Post
Out of curiousity, what was batlground charging? I see private label charges upwards of $700, but it's on ebay now for under $450 shipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUBARU-IMPRE...item3f1ff47b60

The initial cost was $500 shipped.
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Old 06-26-2013, 04:28 AM   #164
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Any updates? To be honest I just recently installed this header today... Why? Some might ask? I got this header for a steal!! Considering the shop is local, I feel as I got an excellent deal for this header... I however had no idea it was replicated from full race? I've had fellow friends rock private label headers (s2000, civic, Integra) and even I rocked a full header / exhaust system for my ninja 250... So I figure why not give it a try...

As I went to their show room they actually offered a used coated black header with a crack (after reading it turns out to be CTSparky's) I ended going with a new one to gamble with..

So far, there may possible be some exhaust leaks and I'm sure it is making contact with my subframe. I did not use the gasket that was provided, so I reused my factory ones. As far as heat, they also noted any coating or wrap will void the 1 year warranty.. So I didn't do any of that... But I do notice the extreme heat compared to the stock one. Ill try to readjust the mount on the header and remove the under tray in hopes to prevent any damage and prevent heat soak.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:28 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kvee View Post

As I went to their show room they actually offered a used coated black header with a crack (after reading it turns out to be CTSparky's) I ended going with a new one to gamble with..
.
Funny story, i think i bought that off ebay for like $200. Crack is right on the bend on one of the cylinder runners? I bought it for a home brew twin scroll bit. Now that i have it, the diameter of the runners is freakin huge, even compared to my tomei manifold, that might be whats hurting the top end.
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Old 07-12-2013, 10:23 AM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2kvee View Post
Any updates? To be honest I just recently installed this header today... Why? Some might ask? I got this header for a steal!! Considering the shop is local, I feel as I got an excellent deal for this header... I however had no idea it was replicated from full race? I've had fellow friends rock private label headers (s2000, civic, Integra) and even I rocked a full header / exhaust system for my ninja 250... So I figure why not give it a try...

As I went to their show room they actually offered a used coated black header with a crack (after reading it turns out to be CTSparky's) I ended going with a new one to gamble with..

So far, there may possible be some exhaust leaks and I'm sure it is making contact with my subframe. I did not use the gasket that was provided, so I reused my factory ones. As far as heat, they also noted any coating or wrap will void the 1 year warranty.. So I didn't do any of that... But I do notice the extreme heat compared to the stock one. Ill try to readjust the mount on the header and remove the under tray in hopes to prevent any damage and prevent heat soak.
You should have bought mine. (I had it internally and externally coated)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
Funny story, i think i bought that off ebay for like $200. Crack is right on the bend on one of the cylinder runners? I bought it for a home brew twin scroll bit. Now that i have it, the diameter of the runners is freakin huge, even compared to my tomei manifold, that might be whats hurting the top end.
The diameter piping is a bit bigger but not THAT big. and our engines normally don't produce a lot of top end power.. even the hybrids.. unless you do some serious head work.

That being said I guarantee that if it is the same header you need to mount the header and then will see the break in the same area (As both of mine did). At the weld on the runner to cylinder 2 (From my recollection). Then pull the header down a bit to relieve the stress put on the header.. tack, and then tig weld it.

After having my second header tiged for a year I finally sent it out to be coated.

I currently don't have any exhaust leaks. But that is due to having to modify it (again).

For the money it isn't worth it. And for the dealings with the UPPER management of BATLGROUND.. well lets be glad that I'm a few states away.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:34 PM   #167
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Yeh thats the spot. I rewelded it and wrapped it. Hope it holds up ok haha. I have pretty worked heads on the new motor too but i figured for the price i got it it should work good for being a full race copy.
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:57 AM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bansheeboy11 View Post
Yeh thats the spot. I rewelded it and wrapped it. Hope it holds up ok haha. I have pretty worked heads on the new motor too but i figured for the price i got it it should work good for being a full race copy.
Let me know how it goes for you. and if you are ever in the Northern part of CT let me know.
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