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Old 09-27-2012, 05:34 PM   #1
ashleysaturdays
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Member#: 113068
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default Feedback Knock and Fine Learn Knock Concern

Hey all...
Looking for a bit of insight on my tune.
I recently had some troubles with a misfire that turned out to be a bad injector, but after the issue was resolved my mechanic seemed to still feel that the car didn't feel right to him. We checked compression, vacuum and exhaust leaks. All is good in those areas.
It seems a bit off to me but that may be totally psychological at this point! If it is off at all it would be quite subtle and the only thing I feel is that it's not quite pulling as hard at the higher RPMs.
Anywho I decided to do a pull to see what my datalogs show. I have a rough understanding of the basic concepts here but I am a bit concerned about what the knock columns are showing at WOT.
My DAM is currently at 16, and I can see that DA is staying positive throughout the pull so from what I have tried to learn in my research those are all good things.
Not sure if the knock numbers are something I need to worry about or if they are just part of the WOT pull. Also I am wondering if my fuel trims look okay...they seem like they could be a bit high?
Here is my pull:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxn...y1xY2VIV1Fvc1k

Mods are:
MY03 WRX
Cobb AP
STI cattles UP
Perrin Dual Cat DP
Cobb CBE
Perrin LCP
Walbro FB
DW 650cc injectors
Blouch 16G-XT turbo
sti intercooler
Gimmick Turbo Inlet
Grimmspeed EBCS
PTP Turbo Blanket

If anyone has a chance to look this over and get back to me I would greatly appreciate it.
Thx
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:44 PM   #2
chappell943
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You do have some knock which isn't great, I would try stay out of boost until this is sorted. In my opinion the AF learning is pulling fuel out which will carry over to open loop fueling which would be causing you to run slightly leaner under boost which could explain the knock, I would do a leak test on your intake to see if you have a leak of some sort.

If you don't have a leak then I would suggest your maf scaling is incorrect.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:22 PM   #3
ashleysaturdays
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

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thx chappell943.

I just had a leak test done on my intake and everything was fine except the hose off my PCV.
I replaced that vacuum hose last night, I noticed it was hardened and had a small amount of oil residue built up around it. But I have a feeling it's not the cause of my problems.
I have a log of my car at idle which I believe shows my AF Learning to be good? But I am not really sure as I am trying to learn what all this stuff translates to!

Here is the datalog at idle:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxn...HB4S2hPWU9HSWM
The first half I am rolling to a stop, the second half of the data is actually at full stop idling.

I am still waiting to hear back from my tuner regarding these logs. Will give them a few more days to respond...

Wondering if I should I reset the ECU now that I have changed that vacuum line and I already know what my long term AF Learning is?
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:08 AM   #4
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleysaturdays View Post
thx chappell943.

I just had a leak test done on my intake and everything was fine except the hose off my PCV.
I replaced that vacuum hose last night, I noticed it was hardened and had a small amount of oil residue built up around it. But I have a feeling it's not the cause of my problems.
I have a log of my car at idle which I believe shows my AF Learning to be good? But I am not really sure as I am trying to learn what all this stuff translates to!

Here is the datalog at idle:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxn...HB4S2hPWU9HSWM
The first half I am rolling to a stop, the second half of the data is actually at full stop idling.

I am still waiting to hear back from my tuner regarding these logs. Will give them a few more days to respond...

Wondering if I should I reset the ECU now that I have changed that vacuum line and I already know what my long term AF Learning is?
There are 4 values to A/F Learning - you can view them individually via A/F Learning 1 A,B,C,D, whereas the A/F Learning 1 value by itself is just the one currently being applied (so you have to pass through them to see all of them just with that parameter, which will not happen with just an idle log).

Your first log shows quite a bit of perceived knock and the "D" range A/F Learning is extreme, so there's definitely something going on there.

Bill
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:32 AM   #5
ashleysaturdays
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

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Thank you very much for your insight Bill.
Any suggestion on what my next step should be to resolve this?
As far as mechanical stuff goes I had a new front 02 sensor put in this summer, had my UP gaskets replaced, had a pressure test done at the inlet, had a compression test done (150 across all 4), spark plugs were checked and they had good coloring, 4 new DW 650 injectors installed as one had failed,...unrelated to this I also had my timing belt done.
I feel like I have checked everything mechanical at this point so should I contact a tuner to look at my map?
Is there anything I am leaving out?
Thx for all the help.

Last edited by ashleysaturdays; 10-03-2012 at 10:51 AM. Reason: typo on injector size
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:44 AM   #6
ashleysaturdays
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default

also I still have my original log sent to the tuner when I did my first pull after installing his map...which he felt looked good.
but now that I am looking at it the Long Term Fuel Trims look bad on that as well!
the DAM is certainly not happy, but that climbed back up to 16 eventually.

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bxn...TZ1VmwtTGZpdFk

seeing as I have done my best to investigate anything mechanical I guess I should look at a new tune.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:45 AM   #7
Cobb Tuning
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleysaturdays View Post
Thank you very much for your insight Bill.
Any suggestion on what my next step should be to resolve this?
As far as mechanical stuff goes I had a new front 02 sensor put in this summer, had my UP gaskets replaced, had a pressure test done at the inlet, had a compression test done (150 across all 4), spark plugs were checked and they had good coloring, 4 new DW 640 injectors installed as one had failed,...unrelated to this I also had my timing belt done.
I feel like I have checked everything mechanical at this point so should I contact a tuner to look at my map?
Is there anything I am leaving out?
Thx for all the help.
I would contact your tuner regardless - they know how the car was running when they tuned it, how the map is set up and how it should be responding.

Bill
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:52 AM   #8
ashleysaturdays
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Member#: 113068
Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default

thx. I emailed them several days ago and have yet to get a response. I'll put in a call today.
I am a bit surprised I haven't heard back as they are a fairly reputable tuner.
In the meantime I will stay out of boost while driving.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:51 AM   #9
chappell943
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Well done at tackling all the little issues!, hopefully your tuner gets back to you and you can get this sorted!
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Old 09-30-2012, 07:44 PM   #10
ashleysaturdays
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2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

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ha ha! thx. yeah well we went through my car pretty thoroughly tracking down a misfire code...but that is a whole other story!

someone at some point stuck me with a broken injector. it had literally been broken at the connector, and then "welded" back together. they were all new when they went in so of course that was the last place we looked.

I don't like to think about who would be so scummy as to do that, but I hope there is a special place somewhere reserved just for them.

annoying when life painfully reminds of that adage about how if you want something done right...DIY!
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Old 10-02-2012, 01:37 PM   #11
ashleysaturdays
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Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default

Okay...heard back from my tuner.
They didn't give me any explanation as to what they thought was the culprit.
Did give me a "slightly"revised map.

However it does not seem like this map has helped with the FBK.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...WFheW0tT3duYWc

My DAM was at 16 when I did the pull, however it dropped to 14 during.
It looks like the FBK is occurring at about the same RPM, and load as before.
With the new map the car is def not pulling nearly as strong as it was before, but I guess it feels smoother.

Do I need to give the new map a little more time on car?
Or is it probably not going to be resolved with this map?
I'm reading as much as I can on several forums but still can't seem to get to the bottom of this.


Thx
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:42 AM   #12
ashleysaturdays
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default

so as I don't abandon my thread w/o posting the resolution I wanted to add an update.
clark turner recommended I run seafoam through the car as a possible resolution to knock in my upper ranges.
so last night I did as recommended and although I did not get very much smoke...it did come out in two places!
out of my tail pipe as expected but also out of the turbo area.
joy.
so it looks like I have an exhaust leak. it was very hard to tell where it was coming from exactly due to my heat shields all blocking the line of sight but I suspect it is the turbo to DP connection.
going to remove all the shields and find the exact source as soon as I can.
odd thing is it doesn't sound like I have an exhaust leak there, or smell like I have an exhaust leak there, but there was def a decent amount of smoke coming out of there.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:18 AM   #13
ashleysaturdays
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Location: Jersey City, NJ
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
Yellow, 16G-XT

Default

it was an UP leak.
my mechanic somehow "forgot" to put the nut on the stud in front of the turbo.
got it on there, tightened it up and no more fine knock or feedback knock.
from what I understand this leak was causing conflicting signals to the front and rear O2 sensors and thus causing the problems.
I still think my tune is running a bit rich based on my AF Learning A-D readings, but I plan on getting over to a dyno asap to get all the fine tuning done.
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