Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday July 28, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-07-2012, 06:00 PM   #76
spec_bg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226517
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tennessee
Vehicle:
04 FXT dom1.5xtr
psm

Default

we will run em again from different rpm. .

i guess after reading the reviews on this turbo i had high hopes for it.im not saying my car is slow or anything just not as big of a difference as i was expecting.

on the vf i was dyno tuned and then had phatron tune it later on to try and get rid of some hesitation, i liked phatron's tune better, it was more fun. thats why i went with him again. i dont want this thread to be negative towards him,he's been helpful

can you compare time between one person log and anothers? like how long it takes from 4-6k rpm and compare it to how long it takes the other guy to go 4-6k? mine and northman log was similar in time too. a higher power car would make it to 6k faster wouldnt it?

say i went to same dyno. would it dyno at 350hp, but log 300g's or dyno at 300hp? trying to understand the whole g's thing
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by spec_bg; 08-07-2012 at 06:06 PM.
spec_bg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 06:10 PM   #77
northman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163631
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
07 Forester XT
Dom 1.5XT-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spec_bg View Post
can you compare time between one person log and anothers? like how long it takes from 4-6k rpm and compare it to how long it takes the other guy to go 4-6k?
That is the basis for doing airboy plots. If you know the weight of the car+driver, the time to accelerate will let you plot the power curves. Our cars are similar, so it should work well enough. Flat road and average of both directions would be best.
northman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 06:28 PM   #78
spec_bg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226517
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tennessee
Vehicle:
04 FXT dom1.5xtr
psm

Default

romraider wont let me do that, something about car definitions not being found. we downloaded the car def when we installed RR but something didnt go right. i can do everything else except use the dyno tab
spec_bg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 06:30 PM   #79
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spec_bg View Post
we

say i went to same dyno. would it dyno at 350hp, but log 300g's or dyno at 300hp? trying to understand the whole g's thing
the g/s is a meaningless number between vehicles. it only means something on the car its on.

as far as dynos go....it depends what dyno you go on. Like the link i posted above from EFI and 310whp or Topspeeds 370 whp.....same boost.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 12:02 AM   #80
xluben
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 261612
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Vehicle:
2012 Forester 2.5X
2002 WRX Sedan

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spec_bg View Post
romraider wont let me do that, something about car definitions not being found. we downloaded the car def when we installed RR but something didnt go right. i can do everything else except use the dyno tab
Defintiely don't use the RomRaider dyno function. It does not work very well. Just pull a few logs from 2k-redline and then plot them with Airboy or Virtual Dyno (VD is easier). Then if you have a log from the VF car, you can compare. This takes the dyno variation out of the mix (as long as you both get good logs from flat roads and enter the weight info correctly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by spec_bg View Post
say i went to same dyno. would it dyno at 350hp, but log 300g's or dyno at 300hp? trying to understand the whole g's thing
As Phatron already said multiple times, the g/s is meaningless for comparing between cars. It all depends on the MAF scaling.
xluben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #81
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

here ya go. northman vs spec bg.....feel better now?

northman red, brandon black

Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 02:20 PM   #82
neorex
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 106478
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: east van
Vehicle:
STi 1.5 xt-r

Default

neorex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2012, 06:12 PM   #83
spec_bg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226517
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tennessee
Vehicle:
04 FXT dom1.5xtr
psm

Default

hell yeah i feel better. i hope you understand why i was concerned.

thank you northman and phatron
spec_bg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2012, 04:50 PM   #84
wrxsubiemod
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 165104
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: name where you like it
Vehicle:
E85 SoCalPorting
Phatron tuned

Default

Phatrons the best : )
wrxsubiemod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 03:05 AM   #85
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

I just posted this in the other 1.5xtr thread...but believe its suited here too

"Originally designed for our 2.0L customers in the UK, the Dom 1.5XT-R uses the Garrett GT 56.5mm turbine instead of the full 60mm turbine of the Dom 2.5XT-R. The end result is a slightly quicker spooling turbo while trading off some high RPM horsepower capability."

IMO there is no reason to run this turbo on a 2.5L.....10cm2.5xtr is what should be put on a 2.5L

The 1.5xtr is basically a 20gxtr with a slightly bigger compressor wheel that does abosultely no good cause the turbine is choking it.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 08:48 AM   #86
spec_bg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 226517
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: tennessee
Vehicle:
04 FXT dom1.5xtr
psm

Default

what is the rpm spool difference between the 1.5 and 2.5 that you see when tuning both?
spec_bg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 10:56 AM   #87
punchjamesarnol
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 284835
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: S.D.
Vehicle:
2014 Hyundai Equus
White Pearl Mica

Default

I peak a little bit before 4K. From what I read I other post the 1.5 peaks mid 3000.... sorry (edit)

I start boosting right before 4k and peak at 4.5k. I realized that after looking at Ron's plot.

Last edited by punchjamesarnol; 08-12-2012 at 09:52 AM.
punchjamesarnol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 01:43 PM   #88
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 02:20 PM   #89
BigRob74
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 305107
Join Date: Dec 2011
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:
2012 wrx
360/386 E85

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
thanks for posting that, seems the dom 2.5 is better for the bigger motor
BigRob74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 03:21 PM   #90
BlazeRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 268354
Join Date: Dec 2010
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
02 WRX 05 LGT
Slow Automatics

Default

I hate when people expect a certain result from a car and then jump on the tune or parts when they dont get it. The car will make what it makes. Just cause one guy said his car made X whp and Y rpm spool on Z turbo, doesnt mean yours will do the exact same, or even remotely close. Everything from weather, compression, coil packs, clutch, etc can change the results.

Go through a dyno database and type in a certain turbo and compre a few cars equipped with them. You'll see what I mean. The graphs usually resemble each other, but are nothing like being exact. Sometimes even close to 500rpm+ spool difference.
BlazeRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2012, 05:46 PM   #91
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

^ exactly. And people have to realize that folks like me or even big shops don't have time to test every single setup. Each person comes in with different parts and different running cars.

You can go on efis dyno database and plot up the 20gxtr, dom 1.5 and dom2.5 and depending on which setups you pick to plot against the others you can make a case for each turbo outperforming the others. But none of them have the same combination of parts or even the same boost levels.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 02:35 AM   #92
northman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163631
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
07 Forester XT
Dom 1.5XT-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
I don't want to sound like a homer, cause I have the 1.5, but the way you present that graph is a bit misleading. The 1.5 boost does not appear to be anywhere near maxed out, as evidenced by the flat, non-tapering curve. To look at that and conclude it has no top end capability would be a stretch.
northman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 02:41 AM   #93
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

It was not meant to show top end capability....it was meant to show spool.

Brandon asked about spool so I posted a boost plot. Simple as that.

If I wanted to show top end capability I would simply post the turbine and compressor specs again.

Last edited by Phatron; 08-12-2012 at 02:53 AM.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 02:53 AM   #94
northman
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 163631
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
07 Forester XT
Dom 1.5XT-R

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
It was not meant to show top end capability....it was meant to show spool.

Brandon asked about spool so I posted a boost plot. Simple as that.
I agree, I am really responding more to the guy who posted immediately afterward concluding the 1.5 was not a good choice for the 2.5L.

I would love to see a family of curves that show different turbos maxed out on boost, to get an idea how much they can flow around redline.
northman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 03:01 AM   #95
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

Just go on a dyno database like efis and make plots.

You will come to the conclusion that the turbo is not the only factor.

You can make a multitude of comparo plots that show the 20gxt, the dom1.5 or the 2.5 to be the superior turbo.

But in the end, the turbo specs should hold up to be true. A completely maxed out 20g should not make more power than a 1.5 and a maxed out 1.5 should not make more than a 2.5.
Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #96
climbhigh09
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 254163
Join Date: Aug 2010
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MD
Vehicle:
2011 WRX 20GXTR
Black

Default

I'm actually glad to see this thread after all the recent noise about the 1.5 being the best thing for the 2.5L since sliced bread. There have been some insane numbers thrown out for that turbo... faster spool and more top end than the 20GXT; making it a magical turbo that lots of people are jumping all over.

Blouch knows their stuff, and I'm sure the compromises for the 1.5 make it a really nice turbo (to the degree that I have one sitting in my garage for testing against my 20GXTR some day), but it's been painful to see all the spray about people expecting this thing to break the laws of physics when they strap it on their car.

In the end... pulling against a VF from <3.5+RPM with a larger turbo will always leave you in the dust, unless you're willing to push speeds WAY past what would be reasonable on the open road. New engine systems require new driving considerations, simple as that.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by northman View Post
I don't want to sound like a homer, cause I have the 1.5, but the way you present that graph is a bit misleading. The 1.5 boost does not appear to be anywhere near maxed out, as evidenced by the flat, non-tapering curve. To look at that and conclude it has no top end capability would be a stretch.
whoa... didn't see the pick on my phone. I agree- you're trying to show a boost plot- my 20G hits 21psi before 3.7kRPM. Granted, I've done what I can for a quick spool, but this isn't pushing the 20 at all; is it really that close to a 2.5 on a similarly built system?

Last edited by climbhigh09; 08-13-2012 at 11:23 PM.
climbhigh09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2012, 08:22 PM   #97
V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 191212
Join Date: Oct 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Nashboringville
Vehicle:
2007 FXT-5MT E85 20G
TD06SL2 TurboTektuning

Default

what is the latest on this?

Last edited by V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN; 08-31-2012 at 09:37 PM.
V8 GTFO Lesbic WGN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 12:31 PM   #98
07VTRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179023
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
07 CGM WRX TR
Dom 1.5xtr + PPG's

Default

i want to chime in an say that i am having similar experiences with my DOM 1.5xtr. I have had almost the identical discussion with Ron, as he also tuned mine.

I want to say that this turbo is not all its cracked out to be, and i like many others have fallen for topspeed's propaganda on this turbo.

While i like this turbo better than my VF, it didnt live up to my expectations. Topend is definetly better, i enjoy the linear power delivery, but the low end is gone, and i am starting to miss it. It became immedietly apparent when pulling a VF suby locally and me being suprised i didnt smoke him

I am hoping that meth injection is going to bring this turbo to life, and get close to the results we have been lead to expect from topspeed's testing.

*Ron, is there anyway you could add my dyno plot to the above with OP and northmans to get a 3way comparo going? I am just curious as well as to how mine stacks up.

i am REALLY hoping meth can get me in the 340-350 range, with hopefully more improvement in the midrange torque. Just hope the stock block will hold that much, we will see
07VTRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 02:49 PM   #99
Phatron
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 36033
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Tuning Lab
Vehicle:
CEO PhatBottiTuning
2006 STi GTX3582 + Meth

Default

it takes a while to plot them up against each other. heres your plot....another with kelford264 cams and another on e85. Note on the e85 car....its only running 21psi since it has a stock map sensor.

2007 WRX 65mm DW750 Dom15xtr TMIC EBCS EXT 93 Oct



2011 WRX TBE Per72mm DW750 Dom15 GSEBCS PWTMIC TBE 264Cams 93 Oct



2009 WRX Dom15xtr10 DW1000 KS73 FMIC TGV AirP Ext MBC E85

Phatron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 02:56 PM   #100
07VTRex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179023
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
07 CGM WRX TR
Dom 1.5xtr + PPG's

Default

thank you for posting that Ron.

When the time comes that i can ad meth to my setup, would you expect it to look similar to the e85 plot(3rd one down)? Better yet, when comparing meth to e85, how would you expect the plots to differ? It is obviously not going to shift the powerband like the cams will.

For anyone else who may be wondering, will alternate fuel such as meth or e85 do anything for midrange tq or earlier spool, i.e. can it shift the graph to the "left" at all? Or does it help with increasing power evenly, i.e. does it simply shift the graph "up"?

It seems all the plots share one thing in common: lack of midrange torque. Can more midrange boost be squeezed out with this turbo, given the right fuel, with boost tapering off up top, not unlike a vf turbo? Or is it better to not have a boost taper at all?

After getting used to this setup, i really like how the turbo does not "fall on its face" like the VF turbos do, however i miss the mirange punch. Can this turbo do both or is it simply mechanically not-possible?

Last edited by 07VTRex; 10-02-2012 at 03:01 PM.
07VTRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.