Going stage 3, just a few questions...

Rymaster · 10-02-2012, 10:57 PM

So I have some parts I have bought over the past few months for my stage 2, 2002 WRX

Blouch EvoIII 16G Turbo
Deatschwerks 750CC injectors
Perrin Tmic
TGV Deletes
Samco Turbo Inlet Hose
Walbro 255 fuel pump
(fix common gas leak on fuel rails also) buy new rails??(link?)

besides that, i got heat shield, wrap...etc... I tried to find the v7 hood scoops already painted but no luck there.

Basically I want to install this all myself to save the $$ and I don't mind a good challenge. Most in depth thing I've ever done on cars is a few clutch replacements.

Can I basically install it all and drive the car to my tuner ~15 miles away with not much issue? I know the big thing is going to be the injectors because they are going to throw off the car's idle and running condition a lot with the change in fuel being supplied. Or should I go about and install some of it and leave the rest for the tuner? Of course I'll drive it easy and not be racing around or even in boost.....just still curious. I know the car is going to be in limp mode anyways.

Thanks in advance for any advice or input on anything I'm missing

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Dentt42 · 10-02-2012, 11:20 PM

Why not just check into the cost of a tow truck, or a U-Haul and a buddy with a pickup? Installing all that yourself will save you a ton in labor, so it would be worth it to me. The tuner will likely bang you on wrench work.

Also depending on the tuning software you're using, you could probably dig up a base map that would at least have an injector curve that's driveable for 15 miles.

BoboTheMonkey · 10-02-2012, 11:45 PM

I would agree with the tow or base map. $100 for a tow isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

subaruBnoobie · 10-02-2012, 11:46 PM

If anything I would think your car would be running rich and you would be safe to drive 15 miles. Just to be safe I wouldnt get into the boost.

djuhnk · 10-03-2012, 12:39 AM

People... Don't post when you don't know what your taking about. That car probably won't even run if you slap 750's in and start it up, the stock injectors are ~440 cc. That's nearly injecting double the fuel if you run the stock map.

What you need to do is email/call the tuner and tell him to make you a basemap for those injectors. Then flash your ecu with the basemap using either an ap or a tactrix cable and drive to your tuner out of boost.

Good luck, looks like a stellar build. The turbo parts you have are all pretty simple to install with the help of diy's on here. Save yourself the money

Concillian · 10-03-2012, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djuhnk

People... Don't post when you don't know what your taking about. That car probably won't even run if you slap 750's in and start it up, the stock injectors are ~440 cc.

I installed ID1000s in my car that originally had ~440cc injectors and drove 15 miles before they were tuned, I know what I'm talking about. Not because I needed to drive to tuner, but because I broke my Tactrix while I was doing installs and needed to take someone to the hospital while another was in the mail.

His car won't blow up. It might run rich and throw a CEL because it maxes the fueling trims, but nothing bad will happen. It WON'T be injecting 750 / 440 = 1.7x the fuel. There's over 25% adjustment range via fueling trims in the ECU. At most it'd be injecting ~1.25x the fuel it should be, but since cruise is 14.7:1 and you have until like 10:1 before you have any real issues, the only thing you need to do is not push the pedal down too much so the ECU switches to open loop fueling.

If you're really paranoid, find a local with a Tactrix and give them $20 to change your injector scale to 700 from whatever stock is. That'll be plenty to get the ECU close enough to get you from point A to point B without a tune and be rich enough to be plenty safe too.

paulpat · 10-03-2012, 02:00 AM

why 750's on a 16g?

I was under the impression 650's are fine. I have what you have installed but not the turbo. I did the injectors ahead of time and tuned for them. What about a 3 port ebcs while you are at it?

Honestly I started it up with the 650cc's and it ran like crap but it ran enough to get about 15 miles.

If your tuner does not give u a base tune you can do it yourself with a tactrix cable. There is a thread on romraider forums about it. I believe it is just the latency or flow table. But you need fine tuning after...

paulpat · 10-03-2012, 02:02 AM

Ah concillian beat me to it.

Rymaster · 10-03-2012, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulpat

why 750's on a 16g?

I was under the impression 650's are fine. I have what you have installed but not the turbo. I did the injectors ahead of time and tuned for them. What about a 3 port ebcs while you are at it?

Honestly I started it up with the 650cc's and it ran like crap but it ran enough to get about 15 miles.

If your tuner does not give u a base tune you can do it yourself with a tactrix cable. There is a thread on romraider forums about it. I believe it is just the latency or flow table. But you need fine tuning after...

From what I've researched 650 would be fine, I just bought 750 cause the timing and price. Figured it couldn't hurt to go a little higher for the same cost that people were selling STI pinks for.

And the car already has a grimmspeed ebcs, thanks for the input though!
But yeah I'll probably end up just towing the car

JMSok8 · 10-03-2012, 05:19 AM

Heres an idea- Get a AAA membership for around 30$. Youll have to wait 24 hours but its worth it. It saved me a couple hundred dollars in the past. I think the basic membership they tow 50 miles for free the first time

djuhnk · 10-03-2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concillian

I installed ID1000s in my car that originally had ~440cc injectors and drove 15 miles before they were tuned, I know what I'm talking about. Not because I needed to drive to tuner, but because I broke my Tactrix while I was doing installs and needed to take someone to the hospital while another was in the mail.

His car won't blow up. It might run rich and throw a CEL because it maxes the fueling trims, but nothing bad will happen. It WON'T be injecting 750 / 440 = 1.7x the fuel. There's over 25% adjustment range via fueling trims in the ECU. At most it'd be injecting ~1.25x the fuel it should be, but since cruise is 14.7:1 and you have until like 10:1 before you have any real issues, the only thing you need to do is not push the pedal down too much so the ECU switches to open loop fueling.

If you're really paranoid, find a local with a Tactrix and give them $20 to change your injector scale to 700 from whatever stock is. That'll be plenty to get the ECU close enough to get you from point A to point B without a tune and be rich enough to be plenty safe too.

I installed 565's in my car and started it and couldn't even push the gas pedal without the thing dying on me. But I digress

The easiest thing to do is get a basemap uploaded. It's soooo easy! You could even ask the tuner if you could borrow his tactrix or something.

Concillian · 10-03-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djuhnk

I installed 565's in my car and started it and couldn't even push the gas pedal without the thing dying on me.

You sure there wasn't something else wrong? Plenty of people have driven to tuner with 650+ cc injectors.

Did you let it idle for 10 minutes to let it get some negative numbers in the long term trims (that shouldn't even be necessary for 565, but still good practice.)

djuhnk · 10-03-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concillian

You sure there wasn't something else wrong? Plenty of people have driven to tuner with 650+ cc injectors.

Did you let it idle for 10 minutes to let it get some negative numbers in the long term trims (that shouldn't even be necessary for 565, but still good practice.)

no, i just forgot to upload the basemap my tuner gave me, then i uploaded that with ecuflash and everything was perfectly fine. drove 3 hours to get tuned on 22 psi.

either way i think we can all agree that it would be the best practice and easiest just to get a basemap.

to the OP: if you dont have a tactrix cable BUY ONE!!! its probably one of the best purchases you can make and handy for so many things.
you can read codes, datalog to show problems to your tuner, make your own adjustments, flash new basemaps. so many possibilites

vf22Bugeye11 · 10-04-2012, 10:45 AM

When I did my turbo swap I drove my car to my tuner 50 miles no prob ...just stay out of boost on Sti pinks

rexblake · 10-04-2012, 09:50 PM

Ask your tuner for a limp map to get to his garage. If he is any good, he will provide you one and you can throw it on while you drive to his place.

Rymaster · 02-25-2013, 02:33 AM

Going to be putting this stuff on this summer...

Any advice on how long the 4EAT will hold up to this? I'm not really an aggressive driver by any means but I'll open it up some and I know the 4EAT is alil tougher trans then the "glass" 02 manual ones.

Probably going to try and be at the 300whp range as long as everything works out as planned.

bluemk3 · 02-25-2013, 05:58 AM

Injectors and tvg deletes alone soups make it immovable. Safely anyways.... And you need to tow with all 4 wheels up. No tow dolly.. Get a car trailer...

bluemk3 · 02-25-2013, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concillian

You sure there wasn't something else wrong? Plenty of people have driven to tuner with 650+ cc injectors.

Did you let it idle for 10 minutes to let it get some negative numbers in the long term trims (that shouldn't even be necessary for 565, but still good practice.)

Terrible advice. Never drive on the wrong injectors..

Rymaster · 02-25-2013, 07:58 AM

Oh yeah, the car is definitely going to be towed via AAA, bed ofc. Just curious if anyone else has gotten decent use out of the same setup on a stock 4EAT.

ShinjiML · 02-25-2013, 08:42 AM

your tuner could probably give you a base map for free (saves you a AAA tow)

Rymaster · 03-19-2013, 10:20 PM

So I'm adding an IPT Valve body upgrade to this list, although I'm not getting a high stall torque converter cause I don't see the need, I never drag/launch the car.

Should I even bother throwing on a tranny cooler with only doing a valve body upgrade? Car should be around the ~300whp range I'd assume.

boosted25 · 03-21-2013, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemk3

Terrible advice. Never drive on the wrong injectors..

Little black smoke never hurt anybody!

T_woot · 04-08-2013, 12:03 AM

fuel rails are must for stage 3?

Rymaster · 04-08-2013, 01:12 AM

Not from what I've read.

It really depends on the tuner's recommendation as far as the mods you incorporate but fuel rails are no biggie for stage 3.

The only reason I mentioned fuel rails is because of the recall issued for my year WRX, which has issues with a leaking fuel rail in cold weather. The intake will be off anyways so might as well address the recall issue at the same time.

get'erdone · 04-11-2013, 02:58 PM

Why wait so long to install? You'll be happier sooner if you tackle it now.

Step colder plugs on your list?

Have a new OEM oil return hose for the turbo?

10-02-2012, 10:57 PM	#1
Rymaster Scooby Newbie Member#: 296277 Join Date: Sep 2011 Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver	Going stage 3, just a few questions... So I have some parts I have bought over the past few months for my stage 2, 2002 WRX Blouch EvoIII 16G Turbo Deatschwerks 750CC injectors Perrin Tmic TGV Deletes Samco Turbo Inlet Hose Walbro 255 fuel pump (fix common gas leak on fuel rails also) buy new rails??(link?) besides that, i got heat shield, wrap...etc... I tried to find the v7 hood scoops already painted but no luck there. Basically I want to install this all myself to save the $$ and I don't mind a good challenge. Most in depth thing I've ever done on cars is a few clutch replacements. Can I basically install it all and drive the car to my tuner ~15 miles away with not much issue? I know the big thing is going to be the injectors because they are going to throw off the car's idle and running condition a lot with the change in fuel being supplied. Or should I go about and install some of it and leave the rest for the tuner? Of course I'll drive it easy and not be racing around or even in boost.....just still curious. I know the car is going to be in limp mode anyways. Thanks in advance for any advice or input on anything I'm missing * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-02-2012, 11:20 PM	#2
Dentt42 Scooby Specialist Member#: 180570 Join Date: May 2008 Chapter/Region: South East Location: South Florida Vehicle: 2002 WRX Wagon WR Blue	Why not just check into the cost of a tow truck, or a U-Haul and a buddy with a pickup? Installing all that yourself will save you a ton in labor, so it would be worth it to me. The tuner will likely bang you on wrench work. Also depending on the tuning software you're using, you could probably dig up a base map that would at least have an injector curve that's driveable for 15 miles.

10-02-2012, 11:45 PM	#3
BoboTheMonkey Scooby Specialist Member#: 224615 Join Date: Sep 2009 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: La Crosse, WI Vehicle: 2004 WRX San Remo Red	I would agree with the tow or base map. $100 for a tow isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things.

10-02-2012, 11:46 PM	#4
subaruBnoobie Scooby Newbie Member#: 309963 Join Date: Feb 2012 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Denver, Co Vehicle: 2004 WRX Wagon Silver	If anything I would think your car would be running rich and you would be safe to drive 15 miles. Just to be safe I wouldnt get into the boost.

10-03-2012, 12:39 AM	#5
djuhnk Scooby Newbie Member#: 331392 Join Date: Sep 2012 Vehicle: 2002 WRX Black	People... Don't post when you don't know what your taking about. That car probably won't even run if you slap 750's in and start it up, the stock injectors are ~440 cc. That's nearly injecting double the fuel if you run the stock map. What you need to do is email/call the tuner and tell him to make you a basemap for those injectors. Then flash your ecu with the basemap using either an ap or a tactrix cable and drive to your tuner out of boost. Good luck, looks like a stellar build. The turbo parts you have are all pretty simple to install with the help of diy's on here. Save yourself the money

10-03-2012, 02:00 AM	#7
paulpat Scooby Specialist Member#: 237145 Join Date: Feb 2010 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: 562 Vehicle: 02 WRX 12 FXT	why 750's on a 16g? I was under the impression 650's are fine. I have what you have installed but not the turbo. I did the injectors ahead of time and tuned for them. What about a 3 port ebcs while you are at it? Honestly I started it up with the 650cc's and it ran like crap but it ran enough to get about 15 miles. If your tuner does not give u a base tune you can do it yourself with a tactrix cable. There is a thread on romraider forums about it. I believe it is just the latency or flow table. But you need fine tuning after...

10-03-2012, 02:02 AM	#8
paulpat Scooby Specialist Member#: 237145 Join Date: Feb 2010 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: 562 Vehicle: 02 WRX 12 FXT	Ah concillian beat me to it.

10-03-2012, 05:19 AM	#10
JMSok8 Scooby Newbie Member#: 309967 Join Date: Feb 2012 Chapter/Region: BAIC Location: Santa Cruz, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX PSM vf34	Heres an idea- Get a AAA membership for around 30$. Youll have to wait 24 hours but its worth it. It saved me a couple hundred dollars in the past. I think the basic membership they tow 50 miles for free the first time

10-04-2012, 10:45 AM	#14
vf22Bugeye11 Scooby Specialist Member#: 272096 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nevada Vehicle: 2002 6Speed swap wrx WRB DCCD PRO-Retro JDM's	When I did my turbo swap I drove my car to my tuner 50 miles no prob ...just stay out of boost on Sti pinks

10-04-2012, 09:50 PM	#15
rexblake Scooby Specialist Member#: 178426 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: FoCo Vehicle: 2010 Evo X MRt Silver	Ask your tuner for a limp map to get to his garage. If he is any good, he will provide you one and you can throw it on while you drive to his place.

02-25-2013, 02:33 AM	#16
Rymaster Scooby Newbie Member#: 296277 Join Date: Sep 2011 Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver	Going to be putting this stuff on this summer... Any advice on how long the 4EAT will hold up to this? I'm not really an aggressive driver by any means but I'll open it up some and I know the 4EAT is alil tougher trans then the "glass" 02 manual ones. Probably going to try and be at the 300whp range as long as everything works out as planned.

02-25-2013, 05:58 AM	#17
bluemk3 Scooby Specialist Member#: 263694 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: hollidaysburg, pa (central Pa) Vehicle: 2002 WRX World Rally Blue	Injectors and tvg deletes alone soups make it immovable. Safely anyways.... And you need to tow with all 4 wheels up. No tow dolly.. Get a car trailer...

02-25-2013, 07:58 AM	#19
Rymaster Scooby Newbie Member#: 296277 Join Date: Sep 2011 Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver	Oh yeah, the car is definitely going to be towed via AAA, bed ofc. Just curious if anyone else has gotten decent use out of the same setup on a stock 4EAT.

02-25-2013, 08:42 AM	#20
ShinjiML Scooby Newbie Member#: 257231 Join Date: Sep 2010 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Upstate, NY Vehicle: 2002 WRX Stage II WRB	your tuner could probably give you a base map for free (saves you a AAA tow)

03-19-2013, 10:20 PM	#21
Rymaster Scooby Newbie Member#: 296277 Join Date: Sep 2011 Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver	So I'm adding an IPT Valve body upgrade to this list, although I'm not getting a high stall torque converter cause I don't see the need, I never drag/launch the car. Should I even bother throwing on a tranny cooler with only doing a valve body upgrade? Car should be around the ~300whp range I'd assume.

04-08-2013, 12:03 AM	#23
T_woot Scooby Newbie Member#: 321665 Join Date: May 2012 Location: CA Vehicle: 2006 WRX Wagon WRX Blue	fuel rails are must for stage 3?

04-08-2013, 01:12 AM	#24
Rymaster Scooby Newbie Member#: 296277 Join Date: Sep 2011 Vehicle: 2002 Impreza WRX Silver	Not from what I've read. It really depends on the tuner's recommendation as far as the mods you incorporate but fuel rails are no biggie for stage 3. The only reason I mentioned fuel rails is because of the recall issued for my year WRX, which has issues with a leaking fuel rail in cold weather. The intake will be off anyways so might as well address the recall issue at the same time.

04-11-2013, 02:58 PM	#25
get'erdone Scooby Newbie Member#: 67200 Join Date: Jul 2004 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Rockies Vehicle: 2004 WRX TiC Tok'd evoIII	Why wait so long to install? You'll be happier sooner if you tackle it now. Step colder plugs on your list? Have a new OEM oil return hose for the turbo?