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Old 10-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #26
wrxadam05
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Edit - Everything sort of came off the wrong way. I apologize.
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Last edited by wrxadam05; 10-08-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:28 PM   #27
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And my point is anyone that judges welds by apearance shouldn't be judging ANY welds. Apearance is a minor parts of a welds function, period.

That weld has not been qualified to be a part of any process/product. They weren't placed on a through hole to determine penetration, no x-ray, dye or destructive testing was done, and there is color in the weld. The bungs were placed on a piece of scrap 3" 304 tube only to highlight the differences of welding an actualy 304 bung and a bung that's made out of something that somewhat resembes 304. Obviously the piece that resembles 304 would need to have the process tweaked to make it look better. Would that make it a better product, nope, still poo and still not 304. The dark weld typically means hotter, but it could be other things as well, especially if the chemical properties do not follow the specs for 304, which was one of the main points here regarding the quality. They were both welded as 304 should be and there is no undercutting on the US made piece.

It's almost comical how you feel qualified to hand out welding advice and judge a weld's quality by its apearance, and plug other vendors. Nearly in the same breath. Thanks for your constructive contributions to the thread.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:06 PM   #28
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Edit - Everything sort of came off the wrong way. I apologize.

Last edited by wrxadam05; 10-08-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:28 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxadam05 View Post
I simply said "I hope this isn't something you would put on your products that require a bung." In the most round-a-bout way, is the answer a no? Or is that something you would feel comfortable with shipping to a customer.
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Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
That weld has not been qualified to be a part of any process/product. They weren't placed on a through hole to determine penetration, no x-ray, dye or destructive testing was done, and there is color in the weld.
Since spelling it out in the above statement didn't say it enough, let me make the response ultra simple, no.

The point was to show the difference between welding with a known, and welding with an unknown. Was the tube product prepped, no, it was pulled from the scrap bin. It did not recieve the prep a product would, but being in the stainless only bin I wouldn't expect much contamination. The obviously point is there's something up with the Chineese part. I've heard they have high arsenic content in the stainless (which would explain the darkness), but for all I know they could be using wood chips as a filler Regardless of what they use or how it's made, it's not as advertised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxadam05 View Post
The best part is that you still think I'm talking about visual only, open your eyes. To reply to your post like you reply to mine...."So your saying, a visually appealing weld can not have any structural integrity. All capable welds must look like dog sh|t?"
You have no other way to judge that weld except visually here, which you did...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxadam05 View Post
My point is that both welds look like crap on your demonstration piece.
Welds cannot be judged visually based on the fact that apearance is just that. It says nothing about the quality of the prep, the weld's quaility below the surface, penetration into the join, proper filler rod size and material selection, electrode type/quality, the effect on the base metals, heat effected zone, proper gas selection/flow, if the welder itself was correctly setup for the job/material, etc., etc....

To put it simply...

A good 'looking' weld may be good or may be bad.

A bad 'looking' weld may be good or may be bad.

Don't fall victim to perception.

If you judge welds by aprearance you are only judging the perception and should not be judging welds. Once you've seen enough of them you learn every one is like a signature, apearance differences are vast and often don't say squat about the integrity of the weld. Some were taught by circles, figure 8, butterfly, rim the cup, freehand, etc... The old school guys that have been doing it for 40 years like to stack the dimes and the kids coming out of school are more into digital pulsing where the dimes are much more blended (this is not a hard and true fact just a generalization), but no matter what the apearance, it says nothing about the weld's integrity. Perception means almost nothing because what's important is below the surface.

Would you rather have a 'pretty' weld that fails or an ugly one that holds? I'll take the ugly one any day!

Regardless, and not to pick on wrxadam too much , our lead welder is not only AWS certified 12 times till Sunday, he's an AWS certified inspector. Our welders are trained under him and certified before being allowed to weld on product. If I didn't feel confident in this process we wouldn't have a lifetime warrantly.

Unfortunately, or fortunately if you're selling garbage, the quality of welds in this industry is often determined after a product is sold to many, well used, and warranty expired
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:01 PM   #30
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So what is the bottomline of this thread? Title says "Does made in USA mean anything?", I get the feeling this is becoming a thread about material and weld quality.

Does this thread imply that all products not made in USA are inferior in material quality and inferior weld compared to a made in USA product or does it imply that Killer B products is superior in material and weld quality than the rest of all products?

I have a Moroso oil pan that is supposed to be "made in USA". So far i have no complain about the welds, no leaks from the welds so far. However the dipstick leaks, it sucks made in USA or not.

I get the feeling this is getting to be a material quality and welding shootout and no relevance if it's made in USA or not.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #31
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Your absolutely right, it has gone OT.

The point I was trying to make with the example was quality made in the USA parts are just that. Parts from who knows where that claim to be just as good, may not.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport
Your absolutely right, it has gone OT.

The point I was trying to make with the example was quality made in the USA parts are just that. Parts from who knows where that claim to be just as good, may not.
My conclusion here is brand means so much more than where it is made. I'm sure the quality of your products are excellent, but there are some USA made products that can be easily beaten by a China made product. In fact I made a mistake of buying a USA made headers but the quality is not good enough to say the least. In fact it has a horrible review here in nasioc lol.

Back to the thread Title, made in USA doesn't mean anything to me anymore, however the brand means a lot to me. If i buy another STI, most probably I'll buy your oil pick up tube and pan.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:12 PM   #33
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It's hard to show the quality of the material in pictures sometimes. I CAN tell you that I've started to TIG weld, and I've been practicing a LOT on scrap material, and that was my mistake. I kept making adjustments to technique and settings only to have someone ask me if it was Chinese aluminum. What the hell is Chinese aluminum I thought?

Then he brought over some aluminum scraps, and my beads were so PRETTY!!
The alloys were a HUGe difference in porosity etc... Now I understand why so many of the aluminum brackets crack from ebay products.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:51 PM   #34
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The thread may have gone OT, but it gives me a bit more respect for KillerB.

wrxadam05 came in her with an incredibly self-righteous attitude, and started an arguement over some damn O2 bung welds. Then shamelessly plugged another fabricator's competing product.

KillerB exercised quite a bit of restraint in keeping the responses measured, and I appreciate seeing that level of professionalism. I checked out your webpage, and products because of it, and I will keep you in mind next spring when I rebuild the motor in my project car.

wrxadam05: Go eat a cold bowl of fvck. I don't give a damn about your robot's welds.

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:11 PM   #35
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Good material is the start to a good product.plain and simple...as the Aerospace fabrication world has taught me well enough..KillerB has a strong original point here IMO.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:44 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
How a weld looks has nothing to do with its quality. Saying a weld looks 'robot quality' says absolutely zero about its structural integrity. I can't tell you how many times we've tested welders who made 'pretty welds' and thought they were 'the best' welders I've ever seen, only to fail inspection and testing.

i just wanted to applaud you for actually inspect and test your welders welds.
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Old 10-09-2012, 09:50 PM   #37
Cheveyboy
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Anytime I see KillerB post I get warm and fuzy feelings. We need more people like this guy in all facets of American Industry.
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Old 10-10-2012, 04:00 PM   #38
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This is an American product with American welds and the only thing I believe will outlast my KillerB header....my Kartboy BBQ grill:





And yes...you are jelly.
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Old 10-10-2012, 05:28 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
This is an American product with American welds and the only thing I believe will outlast my KillerB header....my Kartboy BBQ grill:





And yes...you are jelly.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:27 PM   #40
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I like the way the Kartboy is backwards so it will brand the food correctly

Now you've got me thinking!
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:51 PM   #41
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I think that stupid logo in the center took 4 hours to machine. micro endmill in stainless= PIA
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:40 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport
I like the way the Kartboy is backwards so it will brand the food correctly

Now you've got me thinking!
I originally thought it was written in Russian. that is cool.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:37 AM   #43
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Tom, did you make a bunch of those or just a few as promotional do-dads?
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:27 AM   #44
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That was a one off as I got pissed off at my grill for burning up replacement grills every other year. I called Tom and gave him the idea, so him being bored at the time and slightly off his rocker like me, he built the whole shebang out of nuclear reactor grade stainless. The reverse Kartboy bit was his special touch and apparently was a super pain in the ass to do. I heart Tom!
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:01 PM   #45
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I love that badass flavorizer bar underneath. I need me one of those, they keep disapearing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 04:05 PM   #46
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That bar was an issue as well. The one pictured is 1/4" plate. It was a whore. Then he sent me one that was like 1/8" plate. It was a whore as well. They were so overengineered that they sucked up all the heat. I ended up just using the raw burner after I upgraded to a cast iron burner which will never rust out and fall to hell like the pot metal replacement burners.
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