Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday July 13, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Subaru Models > Impreza Forum

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #1
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default how are you MT guys liking your 2012+ imprezas?

Just curious how you guys are liking the MT. I decided to go with the CVT for a few reasons. The two main reasons being my wife isn't very experienced with manuals and the second being that the MT didn't feel right to me. I learned to drive a manual in 2000 and started driving one full time in 2002 until I traded my car in for my new impreza. For whatever reason I had a really hard time telling what was going on with the clutch in the impreza. I couldn't feel it engaging or something. My old car was a VW and I also test drove the ford focus with a manual and both cars felt natural to me. Have you guys learned to feel comfortable with the MT in the impreza or did it feel right to you right from the start?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:24 AM   #2
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

Love our MT Sport. Have test driven a CVT Impreza since and very happy I went with the MT. I also commute in traffic with MT with no issues. Clutch feels fine to me. It isn't a S2000 transmission, but it isn't meant to be.
53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 11:58 AM   #3
nels0300
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
2013 Sport 5sp
DGM

Default

I love it. This is my 11th manual transmission vehicle and it's one of the easiest I've had. I really like that the drivetrain is set up longitudinally so the shifter is more directly linked into the transmission. The drivetrain set up really sets it apart from the other econo cars.

I also like that the AWD is 50/50, don't need to wait for slipping, you have 50/50 AWD right off the bat.
nels0300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:11 PM   #4
arsa13
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326909
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Plaines
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Premium
5MT 5-Door Marine Blue

Default

Seemed fine to me when I test drove a '12 in July. Now, I'm just waiting for my '13 to arrive. I'll report back IF (I mean when) it arrives.
arsa13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:23 PM   #5
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
I also like that the AWD is 50/50, don't need to wait for slipping, you have 50/50 AWD right off the bat.
if this car was a wrx I'd be a little more concerned about this aspect but given how little power we are putting down to the wheels anyway I'm not too worried about it.
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:47 PM   #6
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
I also like that the AWD is 50/50, don't need to wait for slipping, you have 50/50 AWD right off the bat.
Bingo. I forgot to mention that. I wanted a proper 50/50 AWD setup and not a FWD biased system.
53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:52 PM   #7
nels0300
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
2013 Sport 5sp
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
if this car was a wrx I'd be a little more concerned about this aspect but given how little power we are putting down to the wheels anyway I'm not too worried about it.
Well, I Iive in Minnesota, where you don't need 300 hp to have traction issues. I'm sure the CVT system works fine, but I like mechanical simplicity and proactive nature of the 50/50 viscous center diff setup. Even in dry conditions, all 4 wheels share engine braking/acceleration duties whereas the CVT's front tires carry almost all of the burden.
nels0300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:56 PM   #8
BigFatHorse
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 328167
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Utah
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza MT PZEV
Silver

Default

I like my MT just fine. We were thinking about the CVT because my wife doesn't like driving manual, but 95% of the time she drives her own car.

I have no regrets. The manual was cheaper and I trust manual transmissions to be more reliable and to be cheaper to fix if/when they break. I also relish the feeling of control the manual gives. The Impreza is not a sports car but it is still fun to drive with a stick.

I do agree that the MT in the Impreza is a little bit "vague" in that it's not as obvious when the clutch is starting to catch as in some other cars. But I got used to it after a couple of days.
BigFatHorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 12:57 PM   #9
arsa13
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326909
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Des Plaines
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza Premium
5MT 5-Door Marine Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatHorse View Post
I like my MT just fine. We were thinking about the CVT because my wife doesn't like driving manual, but 95% of the time she drives her own car.

I have no regrets. The manual was cheaper and I trust manual transmissions to be more reliable and to be cheaper to fix if/when they break. I also relish the feeling of control the manual gives. The Impreza is not a sports car but it is still fun to drive with a stick.

I do agree that the MT in the Impreza is a little bit "vague" in that it's not as obvious when the clutch is starting to catch as in some other cars. But I got used to it after a couple of days.
Almost the same for me, except I need to teach the wife how to drive MT first. I agree with you on the rest of the points you made as well. Specifically about control and ease of repair.

I've been reading that the stock shifter is a bit "rubbery" feeling, but that can be fixed with a cobb, kartboy, or perrin shifter.

I plan on installing a kartboy or perrin after a few months. I'm leaning towards the Perrin, simply because it's a lot cheaper, but I'll pay for quality.
arsa13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:17 PM   #10
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
Well, I Iive in Minnesota, where you don't need 300 hp to have traction issues. I'm sure the CVT system works fine, but I like mechanical simplicity and proactive nature of the 50/50 viscous center diff setup. Even in dry conditions, all 4 wheels share engine braking/acceleration duties whereas the CVT's front tires carry almost all of the burden.
So under normal driving conditions (not bad weather) how can you even tell the difference? From test driving both manual and CVT imprezas I can't even tell it's an AWD vehicle so I would def have a hard time differentiating the different types of AWD systems they have.

What will the difference in performance be with bad driving conditions? Both systems appear to be able to direct the power where it's needed. I wonder if one of those bluetooth OBD II scanners can read what the CVT transmission is doing (since it is electronic after all).

I didn't start this thread as a war between which transmission people choose. I started it to see if other people noticed some slight weirdness with the 5MT on this car and if yes if they've grown accustomed to it and are happy with the car.
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #11
nels0300
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
2013 Sport 5sp
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
So under normal driving conditions (not bad weather) how can you even tell the difference? From test driving both manual and CVT imprezas I can't even tell it's an AWD vehicle so I would def have a hard time differentiating the different types of AWD systems they have.

What will the difference in performance be with bad driving conditions? Both systems appear to be able to direct the power where it's needed. I wonder if one of those bluetooth OBD II scanners can read what the CVT transmission is doing (since it is electronic after all).

I didn't start this thread as a war between which transmission people choose. I started it to see if other people noticed some slight weirdness with the 5MT on this car and if yes if they've grown accustomed to it and are happy with the car.
I never drove the CVT, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference in dry conditions, all I know is that the front tires are doing less work with manual transmission equipped Imprezas. There is a finite amount of traction available from the front tires, they handle the majority if the steering duties, and with the CVT, the majority of the engine braking/acceleration duties as well. In a corner, with the front tires loaded (car is in gear), the threshold where the front tires break loose and the car starts to understeer should be lower with the CVT vs the manual.

With snow on the ground, the 50/50 system doesn't have to think about anything, it just does it.

As far as any weirdness with the manual/clutch, I haven't noticed any.
nels0300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #12
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
I never drove the CVT, so I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference in dry conditions, all I know is that the front tires are doing less work with manual transmission equipped Imprezas. There is a finite amount of traction available from the front tires, they handle the majority if the steering duties, and with the CVT, the majority of the engine braking/acceleration duties as well. In a corner, with the front tires loaded (car is in gear), the threshold where the front tires break loose and the car starts to understeer should be lower with the CVT vs the manual.

With snow on the ground, the 50/50 system doesn't have to think about anything, it just does it.
I think you are mistaken on the understreer. Everything I have read on this describes the continuous AWD system (what the 5MT has) as "reactive", as in something has started to give and the system reacts. The "active AWD" system that the CVT has is described as "pro-active" in that it redirects power before there is a problem. Given this I don't see why understeer is more likely unless they've tuned the system to create this effect. I've seen numbers on how the active AWD system is split under normal/nominal conditions range from 90/10 (granted this source said highway which I'm not sure if this matters to the system or not) to 60/40. Since the system is pro-active however when the proverbial fecal matter hits the fan I'd expect the system to do whatever it takes just like the reactive 5MT system would - in other words, understeer into the ditch avoided!
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:20 PM   #13
nels0300
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
2013 Sport 5sp
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
I think you are mistaken on the understreer. Everything I have read on this describes the continuous AWD system (what the 5MT has) as "reactive", as in something has started to give and the system reacts. The "active AWD" system that the CVT has is described as "pro-active" in that it redirects power before there is a problem. Given this I don't see why understeer is more likely unless they've tuned the system to create this effect. I've seen numbers on how the active AWD system is split under normal/nominal conditions range from 90/10 (granted this source said highway which I'm not sure if this matters to the system or not) to 60/40. Since the system is pro-active however when the proverbial fecal matter hits the fan I'd expect the system to do whatever it takes just like the reactive 5MT system would - in other words, understeer into the ditch avoided!
The manual transmission system is proactive in the sense that by default power is being transmitted to both front and rear equally.

How can any system predict a loss of traction before it happens? If the Subaru CVT system is that smart, I'm bringing it to Vegas in January for the Super Bowl.
nels0300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #14
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nels0300 View Post
The manual transmission system is proactive in the sense that by default power is being transmitted to both front and rear equally.

How can any system predict a loss of traction before it happens? If the Subaru CVT system is that smart, I'm bringing it to Vegas in January for the Super Bowl.
50/50 front and rear isn't always the right ratio depending on the conditions so I'm not sure what you mean. It might make a good starting point if you are dealing with a reactive system though b/c it's in the middle of the range that you have to work over.

If I knew how that worked I would have invented it before Subaru did If I were to guess however they could sense wheel speeds and/or use sensors (gyros, accelerometers, etc.) to see the loss of traction coming and adjust accordingly. It's not that far fetched.
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:49 PM   #15
kenny doggins
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326540
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Oakland, CA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza MT SP
DGM

Default

I like it 1000 times better after disabling the hill-assist. That pretty much killed the MT experience for me, as I had a hard time feeling the clutch engage even on the slightest incline.

Disable the hill assist, and slap in a kartboy ss kit with bushings. It's a world of difference!
kenny doggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:54 PM   #16
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny doggins View Post
I like it 1000 times better after disabling the hill-assist. That pretty much killed the MT experience for me, as I had a hard time feeling the clutch engage even on the slightest incline.

Disable the hill assist, and slap in a kartboy ss kit with bushings. It's a world of difference!
Did it make any difference on flat ground? I wonder if that was part of the lack of feel I was experiencing.
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 02:55 PM   #17
kenny doggins
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326540
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Oakland, CA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza MT SP
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
Did it make any difference on flat ground? I wonder if that was part of the lack of feel I was experiencing.
Well I found it very sensitive, so what seems flat surely could engage that system. It also mushes the brake pedal if you're trying to inch around in line or at a stoplight. I couldn't stand it!
kenny doggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 03:12 PM   #18
M45
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 333446
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza SL CVT
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenny doggins View Post
Well I found it very sensitive, so what seems flat surely could engage that system. It also mushes the brake pedal if you're trying to inch around in line or at a stoplight. I couldn't stand it!
well that could be it!
M45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 03:47 PM   #19
nels0300
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 331332
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Minneapolis
Vehicle:
2013 Sport 5sp
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M45 View Post
50/50 front and rear isn't always the right ratio depending on the conditions so I'm not sure what you mean. It might make a good starting point if you are dealing with a reactive system though b/c it's in the middle of the range that you have to work over.

If I knew how that worked I would have invented it before Subaru did If I were to guess however they could sense wheel speeds and/or use sensors (gyros, accelerometers, etc.) to see the loss of traction coming and adjust accordingly. It's not that far fetched.
When it snows here, it snows fairly uniformly. The whole road is covered in snow. If we're both sitting at a stoplight, I have all 4 tires' traction right away. Your car doesn't know there is snow on the ground. Mine doesn't need to know. Your car waits for input from wheel speed and throttle position sensors and reacts to that input, but there is no input until you start moving.
nels0300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:02 PM   #20
Zeeper
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 299286
Join Date: Oct 2011
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Albany NY
Vehicle:
2012 Sport 5MT
Green/Silver

Default

Subaru Outback owners with more experience in both manual and the Auto versions of AWD (manual is viscous coupling, Auto/CVT use electronic clutches) found that both were great, but the Auto was slightly better because the system responded quicker to changes in traction.

This makes sense because the viscous coupling fluid has to heat up to begin transferring more power, which takes longer.

Personally I like having the simpler viscous coupling AWD and the manual transmission because they are proven for longevity and cheaper to maintain and replace.

I also like controlling the gears myself, and don't find the clutch or hill assist to be bad.

Of course it shifts a lot more smoothly when you change the differential fluid to Amsoil Severe Gear, at least that was my experience.
Zeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #21
53x12
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 206332
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In a tent
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeper View Post
Subaru Outback owners with more experience in both manual and the Auto versions of AWD (manual is viscous coupling, Auto/CVT use electronic clutches) found that both were great, but the Auto was slightly better because the system responded quicker to changes in traction.

Wasn't it the CVT Outback that had problems reversing over a curb?
53x12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:04 PM   #22
n00b on demand
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 158355
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: White Plains NY
Vehicle:
2012 Sport 5MT
DGM

Default

The shifts seem a little longer than in my 2006 impreza 2.5i. Personally I hate the hill holder system. I disabled it and it felt wonderful but I hate the yellow light that stays in the dashboard so I put the hill assist back on. The yellow light ruins the nice red display at night.
n00b on demand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:50 PM   #23
goregasm
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 331656
Join Date: Sep 2012
Vehicle:
2012 2.0i
Marine Blue Pearl

Default

Don't confuse old VWs' semi truck clutches with a better clutch. Just because you can't feel it doesn't mean it's broken. In fact if you do feel it in any modern car it probably is broken...
goregasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 06:56 PM   #24
kenny doggins
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 326540
Join Date: Jul 2012
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Oakland, CA
Vehicle:
2012 Impreza MT SP
DGM

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b on demand View Post
The shifts seem a little longer than in my 2006 impreza 2.5i. Personally I hate the hill holder system. I disabled it and it felt wonderful but I hate the yellow light that stays in the dashboard so I put the hill assist back on. The yellow light ruins the nice red display at night.
yes i'm coming to terms with the yellow light! For now I'll do the BET mod to take care of that. Whenever I have the dash open I'll get a little more advanced.

I'll never ever ever turn that back on
kenny doggins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 09:50 PM   #25
jdmartin
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 317344
Join Date: Apr 2012
Default

Well, I don't own this car (yet), but I've driven both a bunch. My 2 cents, and I've driven manuals all my life (25+ years of driving).

I love manuals but I am unimpressed with this manual. For starters, there feels like there's too much distance between the gearing, so there's a big drop in RPM between gears. First gear is too touchy & jerky. The shifter feels sloppy.

Now I will admit a bias, as I've become spoiled from years of driving Miatas. But even my old B-series truck had a smoother shifting action than this gearbox. What it feels to me is cheap, as in cheaply made.

I have been waiting for the 2013's as I wanted a leather wheel and shifter, but I'm either going to have to reconsider the CVT or skip this iteration altogether.
jdmartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.