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Old 10-05-2012, 06:33 PM   #1151
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Originally Posted by gumby1976
I will never understand why they made this car it's own model. It looks identical to the 2012 Impreza outside of the ride height, same powertrain. XV Impreza anyone?
The popular car-based crossover market and CAFE requirements.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:46 PM   #1152
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My wife has a 2012 Impreza hatch and the bogus mpg ratings do not justify the low power. She averages 26.5 mpg in a 50\50 split city and highway and rides on the highway at a consistent 65-70 (My 02 RS got better MPGs with more power.). Keep in mind we live in CT so we only have large hills forget living anywhere with actual mountains.
Her previous car was an 09 Forester so the Imp was an improvement in the MPGs but no where near what is claimed, I'd assume this will also be the case with the XV.

As far as the XV's appearance it looks like an Impreza, the slight change around the fog lights, black moldings and a few more vertical slats on the lower grill do not make a new model. If I blind folded you and put you in the front seat you couldn't tell the difference between the two.
Personally I think they should have done more to separate the two from each other. Do I think the XV will sell as is? Yes, but it think it would have sold better if there were more changes.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:01 PM   #1153
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This all has to do with driving habits. My wife has a 2012 Mazda 3 Skyactiv which is rated at 39 mpg highway and she is getting anywhere from 29-32. This is all due to how one drives and the type of commute. Accelerate slower from a stop and you'll increase mpg. Also at 26.5 your wife is pretty near the average mpg rating of 28 so I'd say she's doing pretty well. We have never seen the 39 out of our 3 either but that is because we typically cruise between 70-80 on the highway on long trips which at most has netted us 35-36. And also a few posts back I posted about my 700 mile trip in my Saabaru. Driving at cruise at 65 I netted way better mileage than the vehicle is rated at. Ones foot plays a big role in mpg and the more cognizant you are of it the better mpg you'll get.

Regarding the XV yes they are virtually the same and I know this. But who cares what they call it really? It is cool for what it is and in my opinion from an exterior standpoint is better looking than the Impreza. It's just a name and I have a feeling the XV is going to sell very well. So well that the Impreza Sport will probably disappear.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:17 PM   #1154
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Subaru did the same thing with the Legacy wagon and Outback, pretty much identical except for more rugged looks and ride height, but became a hit. This ultimately led to discontinuing the wagon from the North American market. Subaru did the same thing with the previous generation XV and I wouldn't be suprised if the Impreza hatch eventually disappears from the American market and SOA be in favor of the XV.

There are plenty of new Impreza in Colorado that travel up to the mountains and soon plenty of XVs. The vehicle is adequately powered. Sure it can use more but that is why the Forester exists.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:43 PM   #1155
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The XV would cut into the Impreza Sport sales but not enough to kill the base, premium/limited 5-Door offerings.
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:52 PM   #1156
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^^^Agree!
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:01 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by gumby1976 View Post

As far as the XV's appearance it looks like an Impreza, the slight change around the fog lights, black moldings and a few more vertical slats on the lower grill do not make a new model. If I blind folded you and put you in the front seat you couldn't tell the difference between the two.
Personally I think they should have done more to separate the two from each other. Do I think the XV will sell as is? Yes, but it think it would have sold better if there were more changes.
The Impreza to XV is the same as a Legacy to Outback. The XV isn't just a raised Impreza. The body is raised 4.1" and the ground clearance goes up by 2.8". It's had quite a few revisions including a more reinforced chassis, more sound deadening, a shorter wheelbase, and wider track to name a few. The DNA is obviously Impreza, but the actual structure is anything but an Impreza with a lift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Subaru did the same thing with the Legacy wagon and Outback, pretty much identical except for more rugged looks and ride height, but became a hit. This ultimately led to discontinuing the wagon from the North American market. Subaru did the same thing with the previous generation XV and I wouldn't be suprised if the Impreza hatch eventually disappears from the American market and SOA be in favor of the XV.

There are plenty of new Impreza in Colorado that travel up to the mountains and soon plenty of XVs. The vehicle is adequately powered. Sure it can use more but that is why the Forester exists.
The Outback didn't kill the Legacy wagon in the US... The American disdain for wagons killed the USDM Legacy wagon. Hatchbacks have enjoyed a resurgence in popularity with the youth in recent years. I would expect the Crosstrek to cannibalize some Impreza Sport sales, but the 5 door Impreza line will remain mostly untouched.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:26 PM   #1158
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I do love how it looks, though. I can't hate.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:30 PM   #1159
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Originally Posted by gumby1976 View Post
I will never understand why they made this car it's own model. It looks identical to the 2012 Impreza outside of the ride height, same powertrain. XV Impreza anyone?

I'm not even saying that it's a bad car but as it sits at the very least it's name should be Outback\Impreza Sport.

Building a car to look more rugged the giving an underpowered engine makes about as much sense as a spoiler on pickup!

You should see them side by side. We got ours in and it looks considerably different. I keep laughing at how small an Impreza looks sitting next to it. I love it though. The power is fine for me. Been driving it around now that it isn't a semi controlled training event.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby1976 View Post
My wife has a 2012 Impreza hatch and the bogus mpg ratings do not justify the low power. She averages 26.5 mpg in a 50\50 split city and highway and rides on the highway at a consistent 65-70 (My 02 RS got better MPGs with more power.). Keep in mind we live in CT so we only have large hills forget living anywhere with actual mountains.
Her previous car was an 09 Forester so the Imp was an improvement in the MPGs but no where near what is claimed, I'd assume this will also be the case with the XV.

I have a line of customers that will disagree with you. A couple of them reporting 41mpg highway and a few others saying they are averaging 33mpg.


Quote:
Originally Posted by subyski View Post
Subaru did the same thing with the Legacy wagon and Outback, pretty much identical except for more rugged looks and ride height, but became a hit. This ultimately led to discontinuing the wagon from the North American market. Subaru did the same thing with the previous generation XV and I wouldn't be suprised if the Impreza hatch eventually disappears from the American market and SOA be in favor of the XV.
***********
There are plenty of new Impreza in Colorado that travel up to the mountains and soon plenty of XVs. The vehicle is adequately powered. Sure it can use more but that is why the Forester exists.
I doubt that. Looks and mpgs will keep the Impreza 5 door around(Sport incl).
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:46 PM   #1160
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^ you suck, mine wont be in for another couple of weeks
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:39 PM   #1161
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^ you suck, mine wont be in for another couple of weeks

Well, It ain't mine, so...I can't put tooo many miles on it.
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Old 10-06-2012, 01:44 AM   #1162
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Originally Posted by chanomatik

I do love how it looks, though. I can't hate.
I agree. It does look great in person.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:11 AM   #1163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer
The Outback didn't kill the Legacy wagon in the US... The American disdain for wagons killed the USDM Legacy wagon.
While true, the Legacy wagon lived a decent life in the U.S. but as the Legacy evolved, the Outback's styling was preferred to American tastes due to its SUV-ish looks even though it was essentially a lifted station wagon. I'm sure some Outback sales were taken from potential Legacy Wagon sales.

This is why I think the XV will steal sales from the Impreza hatch. It will appeal to U.S. tastes better for its SUV-ness. It probably won't kill the hatch but wouldn't be surprised if it happens.

Last edited by subyski; 10-06-2012 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 10-06-2012, 02:47 PM   #1164
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Originally Posted by Lminette View Post
It's not underpowered just adequately powered. Fo 99.9% of the world it will suffice just fine. And there are enough aesthetic differences to set it apart. I find the front end treatment much more appealing than Impreza's.
It's underpowered. The current Impreza is adequately powered but suffers heavily from CVT drone from what I've experienced with it. Add 100 more lbs to that base and you've got an underpowered vehicle. It's particularly underpowered for locations like Colorado where Subarus sell like hotcakes.

Like I said, I love everything about it save the power plant. I especially like the black guages, as the white ones in the Impreza are barf city IMO.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:10 PM   #1165
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It's underpowered. The current Impreza is adequately powered but suffers heavily from CVT drone from what I've experienced with it. Add 100 more lbs to that base and you've got an underpowered vehicle. It's particularly underpowered for locations like Colorado where Subarus sell like hotcakes.

Like I said, I love everything about it save the power plant. I especially like the black guages, as the white ones in the Impreza are barf city IMO.
Not underpowered at all. It's simply not overpowered.
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Old 10-07-2012, 10:09 AM   #1166
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I think that is a wise statement Jumpem.

I think we have been pretty much spoiled by the vast amount of overpowered family haulers around these days. 270 HP Camrys and accords is just complete stupidity. We had a 84 tercel with 4wd when I was growing up as our family car. We put 190000 miles on that car with no issues. It weighed 2800 lbs if not more, and it had a 87 HP engine. It was fine on trips across the country, we merged just fine, we never had an accident because it was too slow.

To everybody who is moaning about the 148 HP the XV has, get use to seeing these power to weight figures. With the 2025 CAFE rules coming, this is your future.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:30 AM   #1167
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I agree with you Scrappy.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:38 AM   #1168
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I think that is a wise statement Jumpem.

I think we have been pretty much spoiled by the vast amount of overpowered family haulers around these days. 270 HP Camrys and accords is just complete stupidity. We had a 84 tercel with 4wd when I was growing up as our family car. We put 190000 miles on that car with no issues. It weighed 2800 lbs if not more, and it had a 87 HP engine. It was fine on trips across the country, we merged just fine, we never had an accident because it was too slow.

To everybody who is moaning about the 148 HP the XV has, get use to seeing these power to weight figures. With the 2025 CAFE rules coming, this is your future.
Amen to that. The power complainers around here are a bunch of bed wetting spoiled brats. I owned a 1993 Ford Ranger with the 3.0l "Vulcan" V6. Decent low end torque, but it made ~145hp IIRC, weighed 3500+ lb and I would tow a 2,500lb boat/trailer combo with it. It was fine, you had to wind it out when towing, but big deal.

We have such an embarrassment of horsepower riches here in the US. Look at the cars people actually buy and drive in Europe. I'm not talking about the ones we enthusiasts drool over which nobody can afford to buy or fuel. A 140hp 2.0l diesel hatchback or compact wagon is considered a pretty nice family car, and they drive on the autobahn and tow 2,000 lb travel trailers with cars like that.

God I sound like a curmudgeon. You kids get off my lawn!!

It comes down to low fuel costs and pansy blue haired baby boomers who think they're being vulgar or something if they ever rev their car over 3,500 RPM. My parents are this way. They bought an Outback 3.6 not because they need 250hp, 170 would be plenty for them. What they did need is a car that makes 170hp in the bottom half of it's rev range because they're too scared to put their foot down and wind it out.

My mom is shopping for a new car and the XV is on her list. We'll see if she can adapt to the power band. Her current car is a 2000 Jetta Tdi. All of 90hp, but 150ft-lb at 1,900 rpm.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:09 PM   #1169
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Way underpowered. At 6,200ft in CO here, this is a no-go. You'd have our foot in the thing the whole time. Anemic up here. I'll take one for a spin, but I can already see it comin. Just like the BRZ.
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:38 PM   #1170
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Not everyone lives at 6000 ft. I understand that tons of Subies are sold in Colorado, but southern states are starting to catch up in sales, people everywhere want a cheap crossover that has style and function. Give me two weeks and I'll tell you how much the wife loves hers
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:45 PM   #1171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
I think that is a wise statement Jumpem.

I think we have been pretty much spoiled by the vast amount of overpowered family haulers around these days. 270 HP Camrys and accords is just complete stupidity. We had a 84 tercel with 4wd when I was growing up as our family car. We put 190000 miles on that car with no issues. It weighed 2800 lbs if not more, and it had a 87 HP engine. It was fine on trips across the country, we merged just fine, we never had an accident because it was too slow.

To everybody who is moaning about the 148 HP the XV has, get use to seeing these power to weight figures. With the 2025 CAFE rules coming, this is your future.
Guess you don't live or play at elevation?


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Originally Posted by gpshumway View Post
We have such an embarrassment of horsepower riches here in the US. Look at the cars people actually buy and drive in Europe. I'm not talking about the ones we enthusiasts drool over which nobody can afford to buy or fuel. A 140hp 2.0l diesel hatchback or compact wagon is considered a pretty nice family car, and they drive on the autobahn and tow 2,000 lb travel trailers with cars like that.

You are forgetting that car is also putting out ~240-250 lb-ft @1500-1600 rpm. Not 145 lb-ft @ 4200rpm. Big difference. Guess you also don't live or play at elevation?


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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Way underpowered. At 6,200ft in CO here, this is a no-go. You'd have our foot in the thing the whole time. Anemic up here. I'll take one for a spin, but I can already see it comin. Just like the BRZ.
Exactly. Unfortunately those living and playing at sea level don't understand.
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Old 10-07-2012, 01:22 PM   #1172
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Those living/ playing at elevation can get the outback 3.6 or forrester xt. This is a great daily for people wanting a small crossover that gets good mpg and AWD.

Underpowered at high elevation?? Probably, I live in Texas, but I have see the number of Subies sold here increase at an amazing rate. This car is for sale outside of Colorado you realize that right???

And as far as the BRZ being Underpowered...

Our 2008 miata seems to be just fine, more fun to drive than my 300/350 2010 WRX was...

To each his own
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Old 10-07-2012, 02:48 PM   #1173
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Realistically, the car will do fine in Colorado. With my 08 Impreza every day in Denver, I operate with roughly 145 hp due to elevation which is more than adequate for dd, even at 10-11,000 ft (loaded up with roof basket) I only operate with roughly 115-120 hp which is plenty fine. It is no rocket by any means but never complain.

I understand the Impreza and XV have lower hp to start with but compare the XV CVT with the Outback 2.5i CVT. The XV weight is roughly 3150 lbs with 148 hp while the Outback 2.5i is roughly 3450 lbs with 170 hp. This yields 21.3 vs 20.3 lb/hp respectively. Also consider the Outback has more cargo capacity. Now there are plenty of Outback 2.5i in Denver and commuting in the mountains. The 3.6R or turbo are much more effective at altitude but not a necessity.

Sure the XV can use more power and a diesel option would be welcome but understand the XV is NOT a performance car. Don't blow this out of proportion.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:17 PM   #1174
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Realistically, the car will do fine in Colorado. With my 08 Impreza every day in Denver, I operate with roughly 145 hp due to elevation which is more than adequate for dd, even at 10-11,000 ft (loaded up with roof basket) I only operate with roughly 115-120 hp which is plenty fine. It is no rocket by any means but never complain.

I understand the Impreza and XV have lower hp to start with but compare the XV CVT with the Outback 2.5i CVT. The XV weight is roughly 3150 lbs with 148 hp while the Outback 2.5i is roughly 3450 lbs with 170 hp. This yields 21.3 vs 20.3 lb/hp respectively. Also consider the Outback has more cargo capacity. Now there are plenty of Outback 2.5i in Denver and commuting in the mountains. The 3.6R or turbo are much more effective at altitude but not a necessity.

Sure the XV can use more power and a diesel option would be welcome but understand the XV is NOT a performance car. Don't blow this out of proportion.
This isn't being blown out of proportion. If anything this is all up to subjective opinions about what constitutes a proper vehicle for each of us. Some of us think this car is anemic and underpowered. Some of you think this car is properly powered and wonderful. That is fine. We are all able to have an opinion. Just means those of us who want the car to have more power won't buy it.

If anything, any car is completely based on our own definitions of what is enough power, enough mpg's, enough cargo room, enough good looks, priced just right...etc. None of us will agree on all of those variables. However, just because some of us believe this car is anemic and needs more power for what it will do, doesn't make us wrong for what we want in a car. Just like you guys are able to believe what you want regarding it being adequate.
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Old 10-07-2012, 03:19 PM   #1175
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discussion on HP vs. Torque is really irrelevant without examining the gearing.

As with all cars, this appears to be a good compromise on utility, cost, aesthetics, and power for many of the core subaru buyers (not STI buyers, mind you). If you're the guy who owns say a 300 HP, 40k, coup you may not be the target buyer.
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