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Old 10-03-2012, 07:47 PM   #1
Mustangkilla
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Default Advice needed for engine build!!!

Hey everyone,
I know this topic is beaten like a dead horse but I'm honestly at a loss for what to do next... so please don't flame me..
So I had an issue with my car burning oil and hoped it was in the turbo, so I installed a gtx 30r with supporting mods and this is what happened on the dyno..





So now i figured out the source of my oil burning problem.. I wanted to get your guys opinions on a few things...
- What are potential reasons why something like this could happen?
- What would be my best route, buying a built short block? having mine built? buying a new short block and build that?
- What are some reputable shops that can build what i need?

Any advice or links are much appreciated..
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
lavid2002
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I would build the block you have. I think pistons melt because of severe AFR problems that cause the piston to get hot hot hot.

Were you running a wideband?
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:33 PM   #3
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Your engine split in half on the Dyno? : )
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:02 PM   #4
Mustangkilla
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Yea I had a wideband installed.. I wasn't in the car at the time, my tuner was.. The car made 350 whp on 93, then it blew up while tuning the car for e85 (on the dyno).. my afr was 11.3 at the time it blew, thought that may been a tad high for e85 but still thought it was safe..
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:20 PM   #5
Nappula
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Looks like a brand new engine to me.. can still see the honing marks on cylinder wall.. Just out of curiosity what was piston to wall clearance on that particular cylinder. And it would be nice to see your heads,valves and spark plugs.

Piston surfaces does`nt indicate problems in afr, _but_ burning oil in combustion can cover up lean conditions on top of piston, but not on head or exhaust valves.

Just looking at picture, it`s hard to say how bad the damage is on that cylinder wall, but my guess would be: high temperature due lean conditions leading to structural damage on cylinder material and for sure huge damage on piston. So you could just bore/hone your block but it wont be the same anymore.(just looking at the picture, cant be sure)

I`d recommend building new shortblock on your own. And you also should be aware of what happens on tuning.

Last edited by Nappula; 10-04-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:31 PM   #6
...CHUCKLES...
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It looks like your injector for that cyclinder died.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:51 PM   #7
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Injectors were basically brand new dw 1100's, were installed on the car and only ran long enough to put the car on and off the dyno.. injector failure is possible but i just think its too ironic that its #4 cylinder..
Nappula - why did u say the block wont be the same? seems to feel like minimal damage was done to the cylinder wall.. also what types of things should i be aware of when tuning?
Ill get some pics of the head and plug soon..

Anyone have thoughts on the 11.3 AFR when this happened?
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:54 AM   #8
fastblueufo
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Does this look familiar? My afr was around 10.7 and 30psi on E85. I have numerous logs of pulls on same tune with zero knock. It looks like it preignited between the top and second rings. Once it started it went straight out the top of the piston. The dyno operator in my case ws a nimrod. My knock light was flashing and after the pull he leaned out the window and said it was flashing nd if I wanted to turn the boost down. I looked at him in disbelief with the smoke belowing out my exhaust and said its to ****ing late now. Ill never do another dyno day unless I'm able to sit in the car or know that the operator is competent.
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #9
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Fastblu- Ouch.. sry to hear bout ur experience, guess u were on a built block already since u were at 30 psi? Have u rebuilt ur block yet, if so what route did u go?.. stories like urs are makin me second guess my tuners abilities.. guna post pics of my heads n plugs after wrk td..
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:59 PM   #10
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Looks like bad injector. get them tested. Dark blue ones by any chance?
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:00 PM   #11
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustangkilla View Post
Fastblu- Ouch.. sry to hear bout ur experience, guess u were on a built block already since u were at 30 psi? Have u rebuilt ur block yet, if so what route did u go?.. stories like urs are makin me second guess my tuners abilities.. guna post pics of my heads n plugs after wrk td..
I stroked an ej22t and went tad smaller on the turbo with a pt5857.
With a piston like yours you were def getting some det before the preignition started. Prol occured same as mine. The top ring rattled or floated and allowed combustion charge to get in between the two top rings. Once it preignighted it was down hill from there. Tuner prol wasn't paying much attention to everything that he should have been.

In my case, I had driven 3 1/2 hours away and had to buy E85 from a station I had never used before. Alky content may have been less who knows. Oh well, just rebuild and go on with life lol.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #12
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kaboom.. damn cast pistons cant take the abuse! lol.. never seen one like that
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:35 PM   #13
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99imprezd View Post
kaboom.. damn cast pistons cant take the abuse! lol.. never seen one like that
The pic I posted is a JE 2618 forged piston.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:38 PM   #14
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Holy *****! those are forged JE's? Cant tell on my phone, Curious how much boost were you pushin?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustangkilla View Post
Nappula - why did u say the block wont be the same? seems to feel like minimal damage was done to the cylinder wall.. also what types of things should i be aware of when tuning?
Well not long ago i ran into this type of failure and just out of curiosity i cut an example piece out of cylinder wall for testing. And it turned out that the material in cylinder wall, on area where the piston melted, was almost like it had been quenched (failure was a bit worse than this). So my conclusion is that area of cylinder wall is more vulnerable for cracking. But this is just speculation, i cant be absolutely sure about condition of this particular block.

What comes on tuning, you _must_ be sure that the person who is tuning your car knows absolutely what he/she is doing. F#%d up tuning can destroy your engine in matter of seconds. If there are any sings that some thing is wrong during dyno session, you should just call it off before its too late... (It`s really easy to be a smart guy _after_ all the damage is done)
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:46 PM   #16
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wowowow...that's one odd looking piston...E85 and only 30lbs...have you contacted JE about this???

-Mark
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:49 PM   #17
fastblueufo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APM Racing View Post
wowowow...that's one odd looking piston...E85 and only 30lbs...have you contacted JE about this???

-Mark
Lol, why would I do that? Its melted from preignition. Its not JE's fault.

@OP, what piston is that in your pic, cast?
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:23 PM   #18
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Proper tuning wouldn't cause that with a quality piston is all, I guess the tuning part was an assumption as to a built engine.

Sorry for the misread.

-Mark
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:57 AM   #19
Mustangkilla
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Ight finally snapped a few pics of the head and spark plug


This shot really shows the difference in color of the exhaust valves from #2 on the right to #4 on the left, would assume that means that cylinder was running lean but not sure..

This was the best shot i could get of the spark plug, doesnt really look bad..

Bamfo - i believe i had the yellow bodied injectors, basically look the same as stock.

Fastblue - yes this was and OEM piston, which i believe would be cast.

Nappula - Think my plan is to just go with a newly built short block just because of the fact that after machine work and having someone build it from scratch i will probable be around the price range of a mildly built short block... and as far as the tuning i feel like in my area im stuck with tuners that are more concerned with making a buck rather then doing the best job they possible can..

Any advice on what my next step should be with my build would be much appreciated!

Last edited by Mustangkilla; 10-09-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:49 PM   #20
fastblueufo
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It was def running lean in that one cylinder. My valves didn't look like that at all. Mine were all dark brown/blackish. Mine def wasnt from a lean condition I wouldn't think.
Yours def looks like it was lean though.
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:18 PM   #21
Mustangkilla
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Finally got the piston out, figured id show some pic's.. Let me know what ya think!




After seeing this damage i know im in for a completely rebuilt short block, what do you think is the best route.. new short block or rebuild mine? Most importantly what shop should i trust to do this work for me?
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:59 PM   #22
99imprezd
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wow.. id prob vote on jb weldin that baby and rebuildin.. hahaha.. yeah Id say new build a good used shortblock..
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