Ford, GM Team Up to Develop Nine and 10 Speed Transmissions

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare

CVTs from all brands have reliability issues and seem to have higher repair rates after warranty expiration than automatics or manuals.

I was unaware Subaru's Lineartronic was having reliability issues. Could you elaborate?

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[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Subaru's Lineartronic CVT has proved to be reliable.

They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?

MORE than enough time to establish its awesomeness, sir!

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

They've been out, what? 3 model years.. including the 2013s?

That statement is fine with me, but that also goes for his statement. I have not heard of any reliability issues with them. We have several customers well into the xxx,000 mile ranges with zero problems. Was just wanting him to clarify his statement when it comes to Subaru's CVT.

[skywaffles]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

There are several things that make the new Impreza have 30% better mpg than previous Imprezas, but the number one thing is the CVT; so how does it have "little to no mileage benefit"?

Subaru's Lineartronic CVT has proved to be reliable.

As for sucking to drive....well....that is preference. I think they are fine.

Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

Ford was an early(ish) adopter of CVTs but they've dropped the use of them entirely. Their PowerShift DCT transmissions offer better gas mileage than a CVT would. CVTs have the benefit of wider ratios, but they do not lock up anywhere near as tight as a DCT or modern auto. They are quite a bit more lossy than you'd expect. Most manufacturers are going with modern automatics or DCTs over CVTs.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by skywaffles

Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

Ford was an early(ish) adopter of CVTs but they've dropped the use of them entirely. Their PowerShift DCT transmissions offer better gas mileage than a CVT would. CVTs have the benefit of wider ratios, but they do not lock up anywhere near as tight as a DCT or modern auto. They are quite a bit more lossy than you'd expect. Most manufacturers are going with modern automatics or DCTs over CVTs.

Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by skywaffles

Nope. CVTs offer zero benefit in efficiency over a modern DCT or automatic. Comparing it to Subaru's previous horrible 4EAT is disingenuous.

You didn't say that initially. Since the Impreza went to CVT and gets 30% better mpg than before, it made your statement a bit off...

[grzydj]

Their current 6 speeds hunt around enough already. I can only imagine what a 9 or 10 speed would be like.

[Paidfor]

^^^^ A CVT lol

[b4wantab]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.

I saw that they are rating the Pathfinder with a 5,000# tow capacity also. I don't see how they are going to keep that one together.

Peace,

Greg

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by b4wantab

I saw that they are rating the Pathfinder with a 5,000# tow capacity also. I don't see how they are going to keep that one together.

Peace,

Greg

Yeah, one of our Nissan guys was telling me it is a new type CVT. I am sorry I can't remember how he described it. I was busy that day and my mind wasn't on it.

[skywaffles]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.

Hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They're not typically set up in the same way as a IC engine's CVT.

Ford ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Audi ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. MINI ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Nissan (the biggest supporter of the tech) extended the warranties (10 year 120k) of eight models over a span of seven years due to a huge number of failures.

Honda going CVT isn't a surprise because they've never managed to make an automatic worth a damn.

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

You didn't say that initially. Since the Impreza went to CVT and gets 30% better mpg than before, it made your statement a bit off...

Nobody makes transmissions as horrible as the 4EAT anymore. If you're comparing a NEW Impreza with other NEW cars, you'd be comparing the CVT to modern automatics (like Hyundai's 6AT or Ford's PS).

[sxotty]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Aren't pretty much all hybrids CVT? Including Fords? Also, I believe the new Accord has gone CVT. Audi's? I am sure I am missing some "modern" ones. Oh wait, Nissan is pretty much all CVT. Heck, the next Pathfinder is CVT.

Look here
http://eahart.com/prius/psd/

That is how it works. Pretty robust solution. The volt is similar. The licensed hybrids are all similar as well. So are most of the others that use some sort of planetary gear set. These are used in buses with no problem. Plenty robust.

[UKscooby]

The only experiences I've had with cvt's are an early outback and a murano. The outback felt like I left the hand brake on. The murano was better. Its my mother in laws car. Its done around 110,000 miles and has never had a transmission issue. I believe it tows a small trailer every once in a while. It drives like a normal automatic in regular every day commuter style but if you romp on it it goes up to about 6000rpm and just sits there making noise. It progresses OK but I find myself constantly checking the speedometer as there is zero feedback.

[ocellaris]

Originally Posted by skywaffles

Hybrid CVTs are a completely different beast. They're not typically set up in the same way as a IC engine's CVT.

Ford ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Audi ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. MINI ditched their CVTs due to durability problems. Nissan (the biggest supporter of the tech) extended the warranties (10 year 120k) of eight models over a span of seven years due to a huge number of failures.

Honda going CVT isn't a surprise because they've never managed to make an automatic worth a damn.


Nobody makes transmissions as horrible as the 4EAT anymore. If you're comparing a NEW Impreza with other NEW cars, you'd be comparing the CVT to modern automatics (like Hyundai's 6AT or Ford's PS).

You almost had me, until you mentioned the Hyundai 6AT which is downright dreadful from behind the wheel.

Also Ford's PowerShift is terrible when it can "learn" its way into hard shifts and bucking behavior. Then you need to go to the Ford dealership, get it reset, cross your fingers, and drive away hoping it won't screw up again. Then 5000 miles later you are back at the dealer getting another reset because it's acting like trash again. One of my friends has a new EcoBoost F150 and he is on his third transmission and 5th or 6th reset right now. The dealer is at the point where they have nothing to say except "You are driving it wrong" and they won't work on the truck. The truck is parked while the lawyers work it out.

[skywaffles]

Originally Posted by ocellaris

You almost had me, until you mentioned the Hyundai 6AT which is downright dreadful from behind the wheel.

Also Ford's PowerShift is terrible when it can "learn" its way into hard shifts and bucking behavior. Then you need to go to the Ford dealership, get it reset, cross your fingers, and drive away hoping it won't screw up again. Then 5000 miles later you are back at the dealer getting another reset because it's acting like trash again. One of my friends has a new EcoBoost F150 and he is on his third transmission and 5th or 6th reset right now. The dealer is at the point where they have nothing to say except "You are driving it wrong" and they won't work on the truck. The truck is parked while the lawyers work it out.

The F150 doesn't have a PS transmission, it's a conventional automatic. The problems with the PowerShift were largely with the early adopters and have been sorted. It's not the smoothest or fastest transmission in the world, but it's frugal and way more engaging than a CVT.
Hyundai's problem is they program their transmissions to upshift as soon as it won't stall the engine. If you drive with a heavier foot they perk up a bit.

[Indocti Discant]

Originally Posted by Kenjan

Meh, my bicycle has 27, 27 speed! I say it's time our cars has at least over 9000!!!

I say it's time you took some English lessons.

[EtoS]

Friend of mine bought an altima in 2007 with a CVT. He had the trans replaced 3 times. Doesn't drive insane or with a jerky right foot. Drove it a few times, only problem I had was the electric brakes which had no feedback and even lightly pressing it pretty much locked the brakes up bad. CVTs will eventually be the future of most ATs once they are able to come up with a solid robust design. Remember fuel injection was outright lousy when it first came out, some weren't even electric. Now you couldn't possibly imagine a car without port fuel injection, with the future being you can't imagine a car without direct fuel injection. That's how progression works, it starts lousy and works its way up till something better comes along.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by EtoS

Friend of mine bought an altima in 2007 with a CVT. He had the trans replaced 3 times. Doesn't drive insane or with a jerky right foot. Drove it a few times, only problem I had was the electric brakes which had no feedback and even lightly pressing it pretty much locked the brakes up bad. CVTs will eventually be the future of most ATs once they are able to come up with a solid robust design. Remember fuel injection was outright lousy when it first came out, some weren't even electric. Now you couldn't possibly imagine a car without port fuel injection, with the future being you can't imagine a car without direct fuel injection. That's how progression works, it starts lousy and works its way up till something better comes along.

Unfortunately, the automotive CVT isn't new.. Subaru was selling a CVT car in 1987.