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Old 10-11-2012, 01:29 PM   #701
OriginalSin
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Originally Posted by Thug View Post
Oh, I know lots of good fallacies that are believed to be true by millions and millions of people...



My favorite is about this 450 ft long boat that was full of 2 of each animal and sailed for 40 days.
who doesn't?
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:34 PM   #702
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Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post

Just shows how little you know about faith and religion.

If someone was doing things only for gods acceptance or "brownie points". It kind of defeats the purpose of being selfless. What, do you think we think he wouldn't notice?? If that is the case you might as well just live without doing anythign for anyone. As a christian you'd be in the same place.
--- SNIP ---
Also, what you speak of is not "love". Jealousy, anger, personality disorders.. Those cause the harm you speak of. Not love.
You speak of selflessness and love quite a bit, and it comes off like you think they're not mutually exclusive. It's not selflessness if your actions are beget or are begotten by love. You're just acting on motivations. Even if you perceive them as "good" or "pure".

Also, the setup of a distracting scenario or proposition is just a red herring. You really can't invoke strawman until your opponent has stated that because he was able to successfully attack the offered proposition it also indicates victory over the original one. Misdirection isn't enough to call it a strawman.

Last edited by IggDawg; 10-11-2012 at 02:25 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:56 PM   #703
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Originally Posted by IggDawg View Post
You speak of selflessness and love quite a bit, and it comes off like you think they're not mutually exclusive. It's not selflessness if your actions are beget or are begotten by love. You're just acting on motivations. Even if you perceive them as "good" or "pure".

Also, the setup of a distracting scenario or proposition is just a red herring. You really can't invoke strawman until your opponent has stated that because he was able to successfully attack the also attacked it and claimed success in attacking the original proposition. Misdirection isn't enough to call it a strawman.
I would not say they are mutually exclusive. But I can definitely see where you would get that I think that. My communication skills are weak at best.

Thank you for the clarification.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:59 PM   #704
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Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
It is generous. I haven't donated my life to helping people. I have done probably more bad things than she has and definitely not as many good. So who am I to sit here and really say she is a bad person. Then what kind of person am I?

I'll bring it back to OS's comment -

she did 1 act I think we can all disagree with. I don't think prolonging agony is a good thing at all. However, she has done so much more for people than I ever will, how can I hold her to a different standard?
Since you're apparently now keen on accusing people of logical fallacies, try this one: tu quoque.

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Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
I'm not sure I understand.. It is widely known she gave her life to help those in need. At that point numbers mean nothing. Do you judge a Dr by the number of patients they treated? Or by the amount of help they provided? Also, how do you claim someone who shunned society to live among and help those in need is a bad person? Because of one area of their practive we all disagree with? I guess personally, I don't think that qualifies for reasosns I stated above.
That depends on whether the doctor also did bad things. At that point it doesn't really matter how many patients they treated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
You asking me for proof of her good doing is like me asking you to prove the moon landing. Why? Why should you prove the moon landing happened when I'm the one who is essentially claiming it never happened. It is not some myth that she devoted her life to helping people, ffs.
No. If you're going to assert that the good she did outweighed the bad, then you need some quantitative, objective evidence to support your side. You can't just keep asserting "but she did good" over and over.

Here's another logical fallacy for you: begging the question.
"Mother Teresa did good because she did good! Disprove that!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
But, here you go. If wiki is the bar set by banman it should be good enough for you.

Does someone who sucks as a person and spokesperson for humanity get recognized by thee awards? If they don't, can you prove these awards were falsely provided?
Counterpoint: Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
Like I said, I'm not going to provide numbers because 1. I don't think there are any because it wasn't a numbers game to her and
How do you know?

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Originally Posted by Dizmal View Post
2. they are meaningless to her greater sacrifice and overall message of love.
Oh good, more love! Meaningless platitudes.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:35 PM   #705
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Anyway, back to the main topic:
Quote:
Today, the Reading University Atheist, Humanist, and Secularist Society (RAHS) participated in the Freshers’ [i.e. Freshmen's -EV] Fayre organised by Reading University Students’ Union (RUSU).

We spent several hours talking to other students and visitors, promoting the society and encouraging people to attend our forthcoming discussion on the topic “Should we respect religion?”

Among the material displayed on our stall was a pineapple. We labelled this pineapple “Mohammed”, to encourage discussion about blasphemy, religion, and liberty, as well as to celebrate the fact that we live in a country in which free speech is protected, and where it is lawful to call a pineapple by whatever name one chooses.

Towards the end of the afternoon, we were informed by a member of RUSU staff that there had been complaints about the pineapple, despite the fact that no complaints had been made at any point to anybody on the stall. Our commitment to freedom of expression meant that we refused to remove the pineapple from our stall. After a few minutes, we were told by another member of RUSU staff that “Either the pineapple goes, or you do”, whereupon they seized the pineapple and tried to leave. However, the pineapple was swiftly returned, and shortly was displayed again, with the name Mohammed changed to that of Jesus....

The RAHS believes in freedom of expression. Our intent in displaying a pineapple labelled “Mohammed” was to draw attention to cases where religion has been used to limit this and other fundamental rights, such as the imprisonment of Gillian Gibbons. We did not expect to be forced out of the Freshers’ Fayre because of a pineapple, and we are disappointed that RUSU took this action....
http://www.volokh.com/2012/10/08/eng...for-blasphemy/

CN: Student group ejected from event for naming a pineapple Mohammed.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:33 PM   #706
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Can you, Dizmal and Original Sin just get together and hate-**** each other already. Jesus ****in christ, its like one giant hate-circle-jerk in here.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:37 PM   #707
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Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
Can you, Dizmal and Original Sin just get together and hate-**** each other already. Jesus ****in christ, its like one giant hate-circle-jerk in here.
And who the hell are you, n00blet?
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #708
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I'm a ****ing drunk lurker...

All I've seen in the last dozen or so posts is the same **** over and over. Each person thinking they are morally superior then the next because their views are right. But nobody really convincing anybody.

It's like the Jews at the wailing wall. Sure it feels good to put your prayers there, but at the end of the day, you're just putting a piece of paper into a wall.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:45 PM   #709
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Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
I'm a ****ing drunk lurker...

All I've seen in the last dozen or so posts is the same **** over and over. Each person thinking they are morally superior then the next because their views are right. But nobody really convincing anybody.

It's like the Jews at the wailing wall. Sure it feels good to put your prayers there, but at the end of the day, you're just putting a piece of paper into a wall.
Ok, terrific. Maybe I can convince you to **** off.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:48 PM   #710
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Ok, terrific. Maybe I can convince you to **** off.
The funny thing is that you, Dizmal and Original Sin are the exact same people, just on different sides of the equation.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:56 PM   #711
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Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
The funny thing is that you, Dizmal and Original Sin are the exact same people, just on different sides of the equation.
Yeah, no. We should change Original Sin's name to Schroedinger, because he simultaneously occupies all positions of an argument until you attempt to make an observation of it.

Dizmal doesn't even know what he's arguing, just that he believes it very strongly.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:59 PM   #712
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
Yeah, no.
I mean this in the sense that you all passionately believe in what you preach about, and each of you feel you have the facts to back your positions up. In this, yes it is true.

And that none of you will be convinced that the other side is correct in any way.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:01 PM   #713
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Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
I mean this in the sense that you all passionately believe in what you preach about, and each of you feel you have the facts to back your positions up. In this, yes it is true.
What am I "preaching", exactly?
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:03 PM   #714
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
The #1 most annoying thing in the world is an outspoken theist.



I WANT TO DISCUSS AT LENGTH HOW I BELIEVE IN THIS THING. OH AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU THINK ITS IMPORTANT HOW MUCH I BELIEVE IN THIS THING.


That wasn't very hard.
This! If your an adult who insists on believing ludacris tales about a neanderthal in the sky enjoy.. But please leave those of us who refuse to close our eyes and blindly follow alone I do enjoy the debate on occasion though.. Logic and fact vs faith and fairy tales makes for humorous arguments
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:05 PM   #715
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Originally Posted by Wtfmaynelol View Post
This! If your an adult who insists on believing ludacris tales about a neanderthal in the sky enjoy.. But please leave those of us who refuse to close our eyes and blindly follow alone I do enjoy the debate on occasion though.. Logic and fact vs faith and fairy tales makes for humorous arguments
: picard :
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:08 PM   #716
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Originally Posted by Wtfmaynelol View Post
This! If your an adult who insists on believing ludacris tales about a neanderthal in the sky enjoy.. But please leave those of us who refuse to close our eyes and blindly follow alone I do enjoy the debate on occasion though.. Logic and fact vs faith and fairy tales makes for humorous arguments


???
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:09 PM   #717
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What am I "preaching", exactly?
Oh lawdy, that there is no god, that religion is evil and wrong?? That religion has repeatedly wronged the world and individuals?

While, Dizmal and Original Sin are preaching that religion is good and useful and necessary?

Please, don't misinterpret what I mean by preaching. I don't mean it in the typical christian sense, but in the sense of you using it as a soapbox to lecture about. Which you can hardly argue, is not what you are doing.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:15 PM   #718
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Oh lawdy, that there is no god,
Never said that. Unsupportable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
that religion is evil and wrong??
Often? Yes. Indisputable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
That religion has repeatedly wronged the world and individuals?
Often? Yes. Indisputable. Even the theists admit this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
While, Dizmal and Original Sin are preaching that religion is good and useful and necessary?
Are they? Ask them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
Please, don't misinterpret what I mean by preaching. I don't mean it in the typical christian sense, but in the sense of you using it as a soapbox to lecture about. Which you can hardly argue, is not what you are doing.
Using what as a soapbox? Do you even know what that means?
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:26 PM   #719
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
Never said that. Unsupportable.
Granted, this is not my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Often? Yes. Indisputable.
Granted, this is not my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Often? Yes. Indisputable. Even the theists admit this.
Granted, this is not my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Are they? Ask them.
I think you are being obtuse with this answer, what else are they doing? Why are you even debating them if they are not? But again, this is not my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by banman View Post
Using what as a soapbox? Do you even know what that means?

I agree with what you say. I'm just saying, you are all the exact same person, just on different sides of the aisle. I think you are being obtuse it you can't see this.

All of you argue passionately about your beliefs, all of you believe you are totally correct, all of you will argue to the death that you are correct. You are the exact same person, just on different sides of the aisle.
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:54 AM   #720
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Ok, terrific. Maybe I can convince you to **** off.
<3
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:24 PM   #721
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Quote:
Facebook Apologetics -a series of posters inspired by actual quotes from angry Christians writing in defence of their religion on the Facebook page “Jesus is fake”.

Since its creation two years ago the page has seen relatively little interest until recently, when someone stumbled across it and, upon deeming it offensive to their religious sensibilities, drew widespread attention to its existence. The page has since been overwhelmed with indignant Christians who seemingly cannot come to terms with the idea that someone has a different opinion to them and is prepared to share it in a public arena. Their expressions of outrage range from requests to remove the page, to threats of eternal damnation for the page’s creators and anyone who likes it, to encouraging atheists to commit suicide.

All in a day’s work for the religion of love.
http://australian-apostate.tumblr.co...sters-inspired
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Old 10-13-2012, 03:46 AM   #722
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Old 10-13-2012, 04:27 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by sleepy04 View Post
Granted, this is not my point.


Granted, this is not my point.


Granted, this is not my point.


I think you are being obtuse with this answer, what else are they doing? Why are you even debating them if they are not? But again, this is not my point.




I agree with what you say. I'm just saying, you are all the exact same person, just on different sides of the aisle. I think you are being obtuse it you can't see this.

All of you argue passionately about your beliefs, all of you believe you are totally correct, all of you will argue to the death that you are correct. You are the exact same person, just on different sides of the aisle.
So basically, you've come in here to make the point that people think they're right and will disagree when the don't agree? Gee, thanks for pointing that out for everyone, Captain Obvious! What a blazing insight you've had!
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Old 10-13-2012, 06:04 AM   #724
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Originally Posted by banman View Post
Why Mormonism is fundamentally racist:
The Way of the Mister: Mormonism is Racism - YouTube
"chloroform in print"
It was a little slow at points but holy crap was that line funny.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:11 AM   #725
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Why Mormonism is fundamentally racist:/
I'm not Mormon or religious in any way, but that video seems to be a distinctly minority view.
Quote:
In a June 1978 letter, the first presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaimed that “all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.” Men of African descent could now hold the priesthood, the power and authority exercised by all male members of the church in good standing. /
Point to an American institution that does not have a racist past. Here's a counterpoint.

Last edited by Garandman; 10-13-2012 at 08:16 AM.
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