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Old 10-14-2012, 10:59 PM   #826
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Mini is B segment. Golf is C segment
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:03 PM   #827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoDealer
Mini is B segment. Golf is C segment
Fiiiiiine. MINI!
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:11 AM   #828
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Originally Posted by fredzy View Post
I'm trying to envision a $30,000 B segment/hatchback on a dealer lot and I can not. I begin to think of something BRZ-like and then realize it already exists. If they do end up making a 300hp training shoe car and call it the WRX, it will never come to the US.
Yep, they do have the BRZ, why would they need anything else.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:23 AM   #829
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
The only B segment cars for Subaru are rebadged Daihatsu. That however has stopped. They need a BRZ based car.

The current WRC rules only allow for a transmission used that mates to transverse engines. So Subaru had to leave WRC, not R4 of course.

That being said, WRC has changed their rules every year (NA S2000 and turbo kit now). So if a big company like Subaru said we will come back if you expand the transmission options to an longitudinal layout also I am sure it will happen.

The new Subaru 1.6T exists but currently has no home besides the hybrid concept cars. It is waiting for the STI Spec C (homologated jdm car for WRC), IMHO.
It might be based on a modified Impreza chassis, like the BRZ, but I think Toyata's involvement might prevent Subaru from entering a BRZ in the WRC. Not rallying in general, but the WRC.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:30 PM   #830
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B segment? Justy rally car?
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:55 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
It might be based on a modified Impreza chassis, like the BRZ, but I think Toyata's involvement might prevent Subaru from entering a BRZ in the WRC. Not rallying in general, but the WRC.
Toyota is rallying the Yaris next year (i think) in WRC. Subaru needs a small car to do it too.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:57 PM   #832
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Toyota is rallying the Yaris next year (i think) in WRC. Subaru needs a small car to do it too.
Oh, I agree, but the Yaris that is entered appears to be FWD. I don't know how the new regulations read, but I don't think it is the same class as the Fiestas and Citreons and Peugeots. Again I have not read the rules, but in days of old, FWD and RWD competed against each other...As always, I am old and could be completely wrong. There is this out there already...

Last edited by a2cpc; 10-15-2012 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:19 PM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a2cpc View Post
Oh, I agree, but the Yaris that is entered appears to be FWD. I don't know how the new regulations read, but I don't think it is the same class as the Fiestas and Citreons and Peugeots. Again I have not read the rules, but in days of old, FWD and RWD competed against each other...As always, I am old and could be completely wrong. There is this out there already...

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...dirty_brz4.jpg

Not sure why it doesn't just show.
All the top level WRC cars get similar transmissions with I4 turbo 4s and AWD. As far as I know, the Mini was the only car that offered AWD in the street going version and I know it shared nothing with the WRC car, likely not even layout.

Currently, all that's needed to homologate(sp?) is the base platform and the engine block (maybe)...so don't get worked up over "having a 1.6T in the lineup" The flat four configuration is more of an obstacle than the size of engine ever will be.

As the cars get smaller, the mass forward layout of Subaru's AWD makes it more of a non-competitor.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:25 PM   #834
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mass-forward, as compared to a transverse engine and transaxle entirely under the hood, and on, or forward of the front wheel hubs?

At least Subarus have most of the transaxle behind the front axle line.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:37 PM   #835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipToBeSquare View Post
mass-forward, as compared to a transverse engine and transaxle entirely under the hood, and on, or forward of the front wheel hubs?

At least Subarus have most of the transaxle behind the front axle line.
These inline 4 engines are nestled back against the firewall.. with the heads practically under the windshield.




Sorry, Subaru fanbois.. Subaru drivetrains are bad for polar moments.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #836
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
The new WRX will need to be on the shortened Impreza chassis (BRZ) in order to compete in rally. Why would they develop the BRZ, spend all of that time researching a pure-sports car and then not have that DNA trickle down to the WRX?
using technology gained from the BRZ to go into the WRX/STI isn't the same as using the BRZ chassis.

there's a lot of innovations in the BRZ that they would be stupid to not reuse, the front suspension seems to be a huge advancement for Subaru (for instance).
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:54 PM   #837
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Originally Posted by Derbagger View Post
Currently, all that's needed to homologate(sp?) is the base platform and the engine block (maybe)...so don't get worked up over "having a 1.6T in the lineup" The flat four configuration is more of an obstacle than the size of engine ever will be.
Subaru in WRC isn't on the top of my list of things to get worked over.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:28 PM   #838
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using technology gained from the BRZ to go into the WRX/STI isn't the same as using the BRZ chassis.

there's a lot of innovations in the BRZ that they would be stupid to not reuse, the front suspension seems to be a huge advancement for Subaru (for instance).
The current WRX is too big and heavy compared to the Fiesta and DS3. The BRZ is a much closer size and the best chassis option.

Again, just bc the BRZ bolts the engine too far back doesnt mean new welds couldnt be made and new mounting points used to bring the engine forward.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #839
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Just read that Ford is pulling out of WRC and Mini just announced their out the other day.....
Ford:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...of-2012-season

Mini:
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...rc-competition
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:18 PM   #840
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Just when you thought the WRC was getting back on their feet with Toyota, Hyundai, and VW taking steps on returning, Ford and Mini pull out. This only continues to raise questions on the WRC long term viability and manufacturer commitment. I just don't see smaller companies like Subaru committing to the WRC. I still see the WRX and STI being developed but for the smaller tier rallies (IRC, RallyAmerica, Rallycross, etc.) and privateers and only provide factory support and contingency.

Last edited by subyski; 10-15-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:48 PM   #841
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The article says that while the Ford factory support is ending, M-Sport will still rally a Fiesta in 2013.

Mini broke up with Prodrive, and never had much of a WRC presence.

Citroen dominates WRC w/ Loeb, but he is retiring next year I believe, so it's anyones game now.

I welcome Toyota, Hyundai and VW. The more the merrier. Let's hope FHI gets an STI back in the big race.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:13 AM   #842
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Mini left because BMW stopped funding. All their money went to the DTM program since BMW is returning after a 20 something year hiatus, so the factory backed effort is now severed. Prodrive will continue next year with a MINI team.
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:15 AM   #843
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You guys and this thread are done here....
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