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Old 09-26-2012, 11:11 AM   #1
Reverend_
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Default '14 Fozzie XT in an Impreza?

I've got a '12 Impreza 5 door that I absolutely love. Not having a turbo on it isn't the end of the world for me, but with the announcement of the '14 Forester and the XT that'll go along with it, I couldn't help but think that having a turbo in my Impreza wouldn't be too far of a stretch.

If you've missed it, 2014 has a 4th Gen Forester coming with a 2.0 powertrain that'll also be available with the XT. The Forester XT only came in an automatic transmission before, but since Subaru is switching nearly all of it's vehicles over to the CVT transmission, the new XT will have a CVT paired with it.

My '12 Impreza is a CVT (mainly because it got better gas mileage than the manual) and I can't help but wonder if the turbos on these 2.0 engines for the 2014 Forester and unconfirmed 2014 WRX would be either a good guide to getting a turbo on my Impreza or maybe even an engine swap if my current powertrain wouldn't be able to handle that sort of performance.

Your thoughts?
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:17 AM   #2
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just sell your current impreza,and buy a wrx.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:22 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by bad mutha View Post
just sell your current impreza,and buy a wrx.
This.

Do not put a turbo on your brand new 2012. It makes NO sense from a mechanical or financial point of view.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #4
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Wiring of the '14s is certain to be very different for the DI. The BRZ uses a completely different ECU that is in no way compatible with the previous Subaru ECUs.

So if you want to do this, you start by ripping out your *entire* dash and spending a month re-wiring and pinning new connectors.

Certain swaps are easy. That's because they are pin compatible on wiring and require only mechanical changes. The mechanical stuff is easy... it's the wiring and figuring out what should go where that's difficult. You do NOT want to undertake a swap that requires re-wiring unless you are very patient, proficient at wiring, and have a wiring diagram. You also need a TON of spare time and another car to use while yours sits in pieces.

A month is NOT an exaggeration. People who manually re-wired their old GC 2.5RS to be able to swap in an WRX engine generally took well over a month until there started to be businesses that made the necessary wiring harnesses for these swaps. All the mechanical stuff is not too difficult. The wiring and what ECU you're going to use are a huge question mark on these swaps. This also assumes that your CVT is built to the specs of the Forester's CVT, which is another large question mark. CVTs traditionally have a difficult time dealing with high torque engines, and the 2.0DIT is ~double the peak torque of your FA20... you have no idea if your transmission is built to a level that will support a stock 2.0DIT.

Last edited by Concillian; 09-26-2012 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:29 PM   #5
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This isn't an immediate "I want to do this NOW" idea, just something I'm mulling around after reading the news of the new Forester.

If CVTs have a tough time working with high torque engines, one would assume that the one in the '14 XT would be able to handle this?
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:55 PM   #6
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I'm glad I got my fozzie xt before the cvt.


That is all.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Reverend_ View Post

If CVTs have a tough time working with high torque engines, one would assume that the one in the '14 XT would be able to handle this?
Of course. I'm just saying that your 12 CVT may not be identical to the 14 FXT CVT... so you would potentially need to swap trannies too.

It's something that if you are going to do it, you need to understand the amount of time and effort involved, that's all I was getting at. It's not one of the simple swaps, the direct injection on the 2.0DIT will guarantee that.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend_ View Post
This isn't an immediate "I want to do this NOW" idea, just something I'm mulling around after reading the news of the new Forester.

If CVTs have a tough time working with high torque engines, one would assume that the one in the '14 XT would be able to handle this?
yes, if that is how it came from the factory. But that doesn't mean that transmission is in an impreza, nor does it mean it would even fit if you had your hands on one.
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Old 10-22-2012, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Concillian View Post
Wiring of the '14s is certain to be very different for the DI. The BRZ uses a completely different ECU that is in no way compatible with the previous Subaru ECUs.

So if you want to do this, you start by ripping out your *entire* dash and spending a month re-wiring and pinning new connectors.

Certain swaps are easy. That's because they are pin compatible on wiring and require only mechanical changes. The mechanical stuff is easy... it's the wiring and figuring out what should go where that's difficult. You do NOT want to undertake a swap that requires re-wiring unless you are very patient, proficient at wiring, and have a wiring diagram. You also need a TON of spare time and another car to use while yours sits in pieces.

A month is NOT an exaggeration. People who manually re-wired their old GC 2.5RS to be able to swap in an WRX engine generally took well over a month until there started to be businesses that made the necessary wiring harnesses for these swaps. All the mechanical stuff is not too difficult. The wiring and what ECU you're going to use are a huge question mark on these swaps. This also assumes that your CVT is built to the specs of the Forester's CVT, which is another large question mark. CVTs traditionally have a difficult time dealing with high torque engines, and the 2.0DIT is ~double the peak torque of your FA20... you have no idea if your transmission is built to a level that will support a stock 2.0DIT.
Actually, not necessarilyl. Engine's are becoming increasingly more modular due to the high cost of getting them EPA certified and car manufacturers are sharing engines and platforms at a higher rate to help offset R&D costs due to a crappy economy and tougher regulations which require more R&D.

There is already a technology in place to make this all seamless. It's called CANbus and is now standard on all vehicles sold in the U.S. since 2006. Although, some manufacturers have been using it for much longer. Most engines in larger vehicles and semi's already employ this method for full engine control.

Simply put, the engine controller is a completely seperate unit from the rest of the cars functions. The car would require a separate main controller and a seperate ECU(Engine Controller). The engine controller is usually mounted directly on the engine or in the engine bay and only requires 2 wires to communicate with the main controller. With throttle by wire now standard, this makes it all the more seamless. The main controller simply reads the potentiometer in the throttle and sends a data packet to the ECU as a percentage of throttle. The ECU takes into the consideration the current load and injects fuel accordingly.

So in the future engine swaps will be super easy in regards to wiring. Just pull out the old engine and ECU. Plop in the new engine/ECU and wire up the alternator and starter. You may have to figure out something with the coolant temperature sensor. You may have to splice in the 2 CAN bus wires and Power Wires, but that's the extent of it.

Of course, i'm not sure what the architecture of the 2012 impreza is like. But if your ECU and car's main controller are in fact seperate. The swap may not be so difficult.

Last edited by gggplaya; 10-22-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 10-22-2012, 08:37 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gggplaya View Post
Actually, not necessarilyl. Engine's are becoming increasingly more modular due to the high cost of getting them EPA certified and car manufacturers are sharing engines and platforms at a higher rate to help offset R&D costs due to a crappy economy and tougher regulations which require more R&D.

There is already a technology in place to make this all seamless. It's called CANbus and is now standard on all vehicles sold in the U.S. since 2006. Although, some manufacturers have been using it for much longer. Most engines in larger vehicles and semi's already employ this method for full engine control.

Simply put, the engine controller is a completely seperate unit from the rest of the cars functions. The car would require a separate main controller and a seperate ECU(Engine Controller). The engine controller is usually mounted directly on the engine or in the engine bay and only requires 2 wires to communicate with the main controller. With throttle by wire now standard, this makes it all the more seamless. The main controller simply reads the potentiometer in the throttle and sends a data packet to the ECU as a percentage of throttle. The ECU takes into the consideration the current load and injects fuel accordingly.

So in the future engine swaps will be super easy in regards to wiring. Just pull out the old engine and ECU. Plop in the new engine/ECU and wire up the alternator and starter. You may have to figure out something with the coolant temperature sensor. You may have to splice in the 2 CAN bus wires and Power Wires, but that's the extent of it.

Of course, i'm not sure what the architecture of the 2012 impreza is like. But if your ECU and car's main controller are in fact seperate. The swap may not be so difficult.

I think you just answered my ultimate question that I've been mulling over in my head for the past couple months. I've got a '97 legacy that I want to cram ALLLLLL of the features of an '08 STI into, drivetrain wise. Dual AVCS heads, stock ecu, vdc, si drive, 4 channel abs etc.

I want to do this in phases, so my first phase would be installing the minimum to properly run the stock ECU and dual AVCS heads. If what your saying about CANBUS ECUs is true, then the engine ECU is seperate from the computers controlling ABS, VDC, SI drive, DCCD, etc. Is that right?

Any info you could be provide would be much appreciated.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullCircling View Post
I think you just answered my ultimate question that I've been mulling over in my head for the past couple months. I've got a '97 legacy that I want to cram ALLLLLL of the features of an '08 STI into, drivetrain wise. Dual AVCS heads, stock ecu, vdc, si drive, 4 channel abs etc.

I want to do this in phases, so my first phase would be installing the minimum to properly run the stock ECU and dual AVCS heads. If what your saying about CANBUS ECUs is true, then the engine ECU is seperate from the computers controlling ABS, VDC, SI drive, DCCD, etc. Is that right?

Any info you could be provide would be much appreciated.
No, backwards.

The CAN BUS ECM has to talk to all of the CAN BUS modules (Trans, ABS,security etc..) before it will start. While ggplaya has a decent bit of info I think he is talking theory rather than practice as anyone that has ever tried a CAN BUS swap will tell you that it is a PITA.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:14 PM   #12
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After continuing to toy around with this idea, I can't help but notice that no-one else is really attempting to switch over or do work on their 12/13 Impreza 2.0s either. It "makes sense" to put the money into a WRX or to wait and see what the next WRX will have to offer since it will likely be built around a 2.0 with a Turbo. I'll likely wait to see what the next WRX is like, but I'm pretty married to the aesthetics on my 4th Gen 2012 Impreza 2.0i, which is the main reason that I've been seriously considering keeping it and doing some major engine work.

I also am intrigued by the fact that no-one else has done it, making my car unique. In that same vein, many times the reason why something hasn't been done before is because it's just a bad idea in the first place.

My significant other has been looking pretty seriously at the '14 Forester, which entertains the idea of convincing her to get the Turbo and do an engine swap with me. It's silly and likely improbable, but it would still be nice if I could get it to work.
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:10 AM   #13
naliquid1220
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Default forester XT powertrain in an impreza wagon

I have a 2003 matrix xrs and feeling the itch to upgrade lately. I've contacted subaru to consider building an "impreza XT" wagon. i.e. impreza body with forester xt powertrain. The next wrx won't have a wagon body style and therefore there would be little overlap of target audience especially since wrx owners like manuals and I've gotten over the manual transmission.

If anyone else is interested in what the OP wants to do, send an e-mail to subaru on their site and they might make it happen if enough people ask for it.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullCircling View Post
I think you just answered my ultimate question that I've been mulling over in my head for the past couple months. I've got a '97 legacy that I want to cram ALLLLLL of the features of an '08 STI into, drivetrain wise. Dual AVCS heads, stock ecu, vdc, si drive, 4 channel abs etc.

I want to do this in phases, so my first phase would be installing the minimum to properly run the stock ECU and dual AVCS heads. If what your saying about CANBUS ECUs is true, then the engine ECU is seperate from the computers controlling ABS, VDC, SI drive, DCCD, etc. Is that right?

Any info you could be provide would be much appreciated.
I was referring to new vehicles for other new vehicles. Your current car's computer takes care of everything from the ABS sensors to the Engine controller. It doesn't have CAN bus and doesn't control the engine seperately.

I was speaking theoretically as i work i'm engineer in a similar field. Our machines can have 2-3 different engines which fit into the same Chassis. Of course we've been exclusively CAN bus since the 90's and our machines are much larger. It makes sense to localize and use a separate ECU. Fitting a different engine is very simple like it used to be back in the 70's. The machine control module takes care of everything, the ECU just worries about the engine. All of the sensors for the engine are prewired into the ECU harness, so swapping just involves the normal fluid lines, motor mounts, mating to the gearbox, and then the ECU plug which is just 2 plugs which connect it to the machine.

I know smaller cars haven't taken this design approach yet, they tend to want to use one main controller for as much as they can, including the engine. Then they just use CAN bus for the couple of other sensor/system modules they have. But i think soon, with all the new sensors and inputs being added to vehicles, it'll make more sense for them to use a dedicated Engine controller and swaps will be like i said.

If someone had the service manual for a 2012 impreza, and the new 2014 Forester XT. I could tell you how difficult this might be as far as wiring is concerned. However, i speculate, that the reason the impreza and XV do not have a turbo engine yet is because the CVT for the turbo model may be bigger??? So the transmission possibly doesn't fit?
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